Cardiff: (CWL) - General Thread

[CAN&I]

Bristol Airport has been denied permission to appeal the Competition Appeal Tribunal's ruling on its complaint against the Welsh Government:

https://www.catribunal.org.uk/sites/cat/files/2026-06/1740121325%20-%20Bristol%20Airport%20v%20Welsh%20Ministers%20-%20Reasoned%20Order%20%28Permission%20to%20Appeal%29%20%2028%20May%202026%20.pdf

The matter's not over yet. BRS have until 12th June to seek permission to appeal directly to the Court of Appeal.

 

[Jerry]

Title is a bit clickbait and if you can get past the pops ups and the standard mention of Bristol Airport and the history of the finances for the last decade there's eventually an interview with Adam Price

New Plaid government appears committed to giving Cardiff Airport a further £200m

Wales' new economy minister Adam Price said a thriving airport was critical to the Welsh economy

www.walesonline.co.uk

Title is a bit clickbait and if you can get past the pops ups and the standard mention of Bristol Airport and the history of the finances for the last decade there's eventually an interview with Adam Price

New Plaid government appears committed to giving Cardiff Airport a further £200m

Wales' new economy minister Adam Price said a thriving airport was critical to the Welsh economy

www.walesonline.co.uk

The article looked a bit familiar though
Different title same article

Cardiff Airport 'mission critical' in boosting Welsh economy says Adam Price

The new Economy Minister says the airport could follow the example of its rival Bristol Airport in growing passengers while also expanding non related terminal activities

www.business-live.co.uk

 

[CAN&I]

Title is a bit clickbait and if you can get past the pops ups and the standard mention of Bristol Airport and the history of the finances for the last decade there's eventually an interview with Adam Price

New Plaid government appears committed to giving Cardiff Airport a further £200m

Wales' new economy minister Adam Price said a thriving airport was critical to the Welsh economy

www.walesonline.co.uk

The article looked a bit familiar though
Different title same article

Cardiff Airport 'mission critical' in boosting Welsh economy says Adam Price

The new Economy Minister says the airport could follow the example of its rival Bristol Airport in growing passengers while also expanding non related terminal activities

www.business-live.co.uk

The usual garbage and re-heated clickbait from WO.
Not sure Adam Price specifically stated in any of his interviews so far that he (or the new Welsh Government) is committed to "spending £200million" over the next ten years. We’ve seen plenty of copy from news sources on the day he spoke on the subject from almost all the news sources involved.
Adam Price has stated he is committed to making the airport a success, exploiting latent potential and increasing its contribution to the Welsh economy. Nowhere has the money specifically been mentioned.
This is particularly irksome given there has been zero coverage from WO (or anyone else) of either Bristol Airport losing its CAT appeal OR the fact that Cardiff Airport was the second-fastest growing UK airport in Q1.
There’s not so many clicks and web traffic involved when it comes to good news about Cardiff Airport it seems, which is why more of the usual sh*t-stirring seems to be the order of the day.

 

[Jerry]

And the saga continues. Bristol Airport lost the last appeal but doesn't seem to want to admit defeat and move on so are taking the case to the Court of Appeal.
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if this eventually ended up at the Supreme Court.

Bristol Airport expected to seek permission to challenge Cardiff Airport's subsidy case victory

Martin Shipton Bristol Airport is expected to apply directly to the Court of Appeal for the right to challenge the decision that the Welsh Government was within its rights to subsidise Cardiff Airport. Last week the Competition Appeal Tribunal refused to allow Bristol to take its case to the...

nation.cymru

 

[CAN&I]

And the saga continues. Bristol Airport lost the last appeal but doesn't seem to want to admit defeat and move on so are taking the case to the Court of Appeal.
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if this eventually ended up at the Supreme Court.

Bristol Airport expected to seek permission to challenge Cardiff Airport's subsidy case victory

Martin Shipton Bristol Airport is expected to apply directly to the Court of Appeal for the right to challenge the decision that the Welsh Government was within its rights to subsidise Cardiff Airport. Last week the Competition Appeal Tribunal refused to allow Bristol to take its case to the...

nation.cymru

They'll take this all the way through the system to get the answer they want. They've done this before with the previous expansion plans when they had to go to Michael Gove to help win the argument, prompting him to launch a government review of the case. Millions spent on litigation is nothing to them if it means tying the competition up with the legal process with the end game of protecting their dominance in the market.

Reading through both the initial decision and subsequent appeal application, the CAT judgments are comprehensive and the presiding officer is considered one of the best in the busines when it comes to competition law. The jusdments also highlight the flimsiness of Bristol Airport's arguments and challenges on all counts, a lesson they surprisingly failed to learn the second time around where they were told that they were just repeating their initial arguments and positioning a different point of view rather than highlighting a mistake or point of law in the assessments and judgments.

Lets hope they continue making a hash of it as they have done so far. The major negative, however, is that this will be another costly distraction standing in the way of progress for Cardiff Airport which will only serve to absorb more money.

 

[Jerry]

Lets hope they continue making a hash of it as they have done so far. The major negative, however, is that this will be another costly distraction standing in the way of progress for Cardiff Airport which will only serve to absorb more money.

Well I'd expect that the airport will just get on with it and leave it to the government to fight it but it does create some sort of uncertainty around the airport and maybe that's what Bristol wants to do just create some uncertainty to put airlines off but the court case didn't put WestJet off nor TUI nor Ryanair.
It does sometime feel to me like Bristol sees Cardiff as some sort of massive threat that needs to be crushed by any means.

 

[MrFenner]

It does sometime feel to me like Bristol sees Cardiff as some sort of massive threat that needs to be crushed by any means.

It’s called bullying. That’s all they are. Big bullies who don’t want the smaller kids having something they haven’t got / can’t have.

I think BRS believes CWL is more of a threat to them than anyone else actually believes.

I thought Dave Lees leaving would’ve been the end to all this but it seems the management have different ideas!

Sense will prevail.

 

[Jack Ruckley]

And the saga continues. Bristol Airport lost the last appeal but doesn't seem to want to admit defeat and move on so are taking the case to the Court of Appeal.
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if this eventually ended up at the Supreme Court.

Bristol Airport expected to seek permission to challenge Cardiff Airport's subsidy case victory

Martin Shipton Bristol Airport is expected to apply directly to the Court of Appeal for the right to challenge the decision that the Welsh Government was within its rights to subsidise Cardiff Airport. Last week the Competition Appeal Tribunal refused to allow Bristol to take its case to the...

nation.cymru

Is their whole mission to destroy Cardiff Airport entirely and just rename themselves as Cardiff & Bristol airport.

If they had the large scale infrastructure and land needed then yes we would understand but they are rammed full and no space. The airlines there currently are getting annoyed by the lack of space for expansion so are limited to larger aircraft in the intermediate.

The runway length also proved a failure at Bristol as long haul is not achievable without stop overs or reduced seat capacity/cargo capacity.

So why come after us? If this is costing them millions I can see the airlines being disapproving of this move if it jeopardises expansion plans like more stands and terminal upgrades.

Maybe this could all be in Cardiff’s favour since we’ve seen Ryanair & TUI jump ship and add extra flights here due to capacity constraints. Then we’ll probably face another lawsuit for stealing “their” airlines

If this goes all the way to the Supreme Court then it’s a long road ahead

It’s clear that Bristol are just clueless about what Cardiff Airport could be. We are barely a 1/10 of their size and are not distorting the market in any way. Westjet came here by their own decision and they’re not happy we’re “stealing” TUI & Ryanair when they themselves saw capacity opportunities here at Cardiff.

It’s a childish act but with the uncertainty it’s also hindering possible expansion as airlines want assurance when establishing expansion at a new airport so once we see the full and final decision we may see rapid expansion once this court case ins fully settled

 

[CAN&I]

Maybe this could all be in Cardiff’s favour since we’ve seen Ryanair & TUI jump ship and add extra flights here due to capacity constraints. Then we’ll probably face another lawsuit for stealing “their” airlines

If this goes all the way to the Supreme Court then it’s a long road ahead

It’s clear that Bristol are just clueless about what Cardiff Airport could be. We are barely a 1/10 of their size and are not distorting the market in any way. Westjet came here by their own decision and they’re not happy we’re “stealing” TUI & Ryanair when they themselves saw capacity opportunities here at Cardiff.

It’s a childish act but with the uncertainty it’s also hindering possible expansion as airlines want assurance when establishing expansion at a new airport so once we see the full and final decision we may see rapid expansion once this court case ins fully settled

BRS may indeed moan abourt CWL "stealing airline capacity" while they lack the immediate headroom to expand, yetit is BRS themselves that has caused Ryanair and TUI to look west because of the dominance of the relationships between easyJet, Jet2 and BRS.

Easy's market share at BRS has grown with each passing year primarily at the expense of others and now the same is happening with Jet2. TUI in particular are becomming increasingly "sqeezed out" which is why they are moving capacity to CWL, EXT, BOH and BHX. As BRS is allowed to expand further, you can bet your life that easyJet and Jet2 will see the majority share of the extra capacity. BRS know this which is why they do not want TUI or Ryanair to move any more capacity elsewhere.

Well I'd expect that the airport will just get on with it and leave it to the government to fight it but it does create some sort of uncertainty around the airport and maybe that's what Bristol wants to do just create some uncertainty to put airlines off but the court case didn't put WestJet off nor TUI nor Ryanair.
It does sometime feel to me like Bristol sees Cardiff as some sort of massive threat that needs to be crushed by any means.

This is precisely what BRS are trying to do. Not only are they prepared to take their case to the High Court, even the Government, to get what they want, they are happy for the process to take as long as it takes precisely because of the uncertainty it creates. We know of at least one major airline monitoring the situation closely and its completely understanable as to why they would not wish to commit further to CWL until the matter is resolved.

There is another step the new Welsh Government could take to end the uncertainty now and pull the rug away from BRS - reverse the subsidy and nationalise the airport as they did with TFW. Absolutely nothing stopping them from doing so other than the political noise it would create.

 

[Jerry]

There is another step the new Welsh Government could take to end the uncertainty now and pull the rug away from BRS - reverse the subsidy and nationalise the airport as they did with TFW. Absolutely nothing stopping them from doing so other than the political noise it would create.

Interesting suggestion. I'm curious what difference would that make? They own the airport as it is and are the sole shareholder in the company that operates it. TfW if I remember correctly had a private company operating the trains in partnership and the government just took it over.

 

[CAN&I]

Interesting suggestion. I'm curious what difference would that make? They own the airport as it is and are the sole shareholder in the company that operates it. TfW if I remember correctly had a private company operating the trains in partnership and the government just took it over.

They could do the same with the airport. TFW is directly owned and managed by the government, whereas CIAL is owned at arm's length as a private commercial limited organisation via AGC Holdco.

While the Government own all the shares, it does not have representation on the CIAL board which means it can act as a wholly independent company.

By operating the airport as an independent corporation, WGC Holdco is meant to satisfy UK and EU competition laws, ensuring financial decisions are made on an open-market, commercial basis. This arrangement is supposed to prevent legal challenges regarding unlawful state aid, subsidy or market distortion.

However, this is precisely the argument Bristol Airport is pushing - i.e. the Welsh Government is unlawfully using this "loophole" to provide "state aid" into what what it feels is an "ailing or insolvent enterprise", which they wouldn't be allowed to do so if the airport was judged to be "ailing or insolvent". The other side of their argument is that government money IS being used to distort the market by offering direct payments to airlines.

The CAT has dismissed BRS's arguments on both counts as it was satisfied that WG made a reasoned assessment against the "ailing / insolvent" test and also that it properly assessed the effect on the market following the feedback from the Competition & Markets Authority assessment in late 2024.

The WG could feasibly take direct control of a nationalised CIAL, invest directly and remove the problem. However, what that would mean in terms of competition and market distortion in its own right, not to mention political and public reaction is another matter.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

From what I'm reading the only argument BRS have is their claim that CWL is insolvent and not an on-going concern that doesn't require tax payer intervention.
So surely, as with any business that's requiring restructuring, CWL has a solid plan to return to profitability and what BRS is trying to do is blocking that path to growth and in turn profitability. It's as if CWL is choking and BRS is putting it's foot on their throat.
Did CWL decrease it's losses in the most recent financial releases?

 

[Jerry]

Did CWL decrease it's losses in the most recent financial releases?

2024-25 finances are here

CARDIFF INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

CARDIFF INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

Be a while until 2025-26 finances are out.

 

[CAN&I]

From what I'm reading the only argument BRS have is their claim that CWL is insolvent and not an on-going concern that doesn't require tax payer intervention.
So surely, as with any business that's requiring restructuring, CWL has a solid plan to return to profitability and what BRS is trying to do is blocking that path to growth and in turn profitability. It's as if CWL is choking and BRS is putting it's foot on their throat.
Did CWL decrease it's losses in the most recent financial releases?

In the judgment, the CAT said that there was an on-going finance facility which was used as part of the reasoning as to why WG judged the business to not fall under the "ailing or insolvent" categorisation. Looking at the accounts while the airport is still making a loss, there are two critical points to call out. 1) the airport's outgoings include the management and oversight of the Bro Tathan operation and 2) it is building up a cash reserve for future investment, a reserve that is ring fenced for now.

The CAT concluded that the issue of whether the airport was “ailing or insolvent” had been directly and adequately considered by the Welsh Government and its decision was judged "not irrational". WG were judged to have reached a rational conclusion based on the evidence it provided as to how it reached that conclusion.

This is the point that Bristol disagrees with as you say yet, as the CAT directed, posessing a difference of opinion is not grounds enough to challenge the rationality of the WG assessment.

Bristol is likely to argue (again) that the decision was not rational and will try to pull numbers from the public accounts to support its conclusion, as it did at the tribunal. It will also complain (again) that the UK subsidy laws adopted as a bloc post-Brexit are too lenient and are "bent" in favour of public bodies rather than the protection of commercial competition. However, (yet again!) the CAT has already addressed the point of rationality (as above) as well as the rules - i.e. WG can only apply the subsidy according to the rules and framework guidance in place and not with one eye on other parties just because they might not like the rules or the outcome.

The final argument will (again!!!) centre around the WG's assessment of the effect on the market. CAT dismissed this argument as it was proved the WG re-evaluated their market assessment following the CMA's Subsidy Advice report of late 2024 which was partly critical at the time. WG actually listened and tightened their assessment proir to the subsidy submission. Bristol's "expert witness" painted a more critical assessment (of course) than the WG provided but the CAT ultimately discredited this as opinion, bordering on a critical assessment of the process, rather than fact.

The gloves are off now. Bristol Airport are seeking to push the foot further on the windpipe (as you say) and it will have zero issue spending millions more getting the answer it wants. They maybe 2-0 down but they've not lost the game yet and the prolonged uncertainty they are creating will feel as if the game is level and slightly in their favour, despite the score.

The *******s know exactly what they are doing and are playing the system as victims, whereas they are trying to play the system to kill government backed competition to protect their market dominance.