Flybe

[TheLocalYokel]

Journey time is elastic because not every one is going to go to Docklands and even the 30-minute check-in before the flight might not happen in reality. Most people will turn up before that if they've got any sense because security queues can be a problem and check-in times might be more than 30 minutes before the flight anyway. Respective rail and air fares will also be a factor for some.

I'm not sure that the prospect of a flight rather than a train will necessarily appeal to everyone by any means. The train will arrive at Cardiff city centre - the aircraft won't - and there might be a danger of us as aviation enthusiasts thinking that everyone would fly rather than go by rail if there was a choice. Lots of people, my wife included, only fly when there is no realistic alternative. Like many people she doesn't enjoy flying for its own sake - she's not really keen at all - and is brassed off with all the hassle she perceives at airports with security and waiting around in queues to board aircraft. Furthermore, you can take a lot more luggage on the train without having to bother about security issues and the train frequency is so much greater.

I'm not trying to be negative. I'm trying to point out that not everyone sees air as a huge boon when there is viable rail, or even road if you really don't like flying, on short journeys.

It would be interesting to see if there are any figures to suggest that Exeter area visitors have increased noticeably since the air route began. Somewhere like Newquay certainly benefits from its domestic air connectivity but that's much further away from most large centres of population in this country.

I agree about Air Wales. Apart from bmi baby, for whom it flew one or two routes, it had no partners and Flybe is a more enterprising animal. No criticism of Air Wales; it's just that Flybe has more resources.

 

[superking]

also with my post I was looking at it in reality trying not to be negative. but Cardiff central to London Paddington is 2 hours 6 mins. the train is cheaper and comfortable. I would like to see it happen. I would like to think if dash was staying at cwl then perhaps a route into Europe some where. more money to be made out of that.at the end of the day it wants a airline to do a route and make it work as something like that makes other airlines sit up and look at other possible routes.

 

[Jerry]

The train will arrive at Cardiff city centre - the aircraft won't - and there might be a danger of us as aviation enthusiasts thinking that everyone would fly rather than go by rail if there was a choice.

I think each mode of transport each has it's own merits but at least people will get the choice and then it's up to the paying public. Also Cardiff is a lot different to when Air Wales were running the route as to now so an LCY route might be more sustainable now than then.
It would also have the advantage that the Flybe base will expand and bring other routes to the airport. The fact that the airport has promoted it so well may be down to the fact that they are looking to the future and want to get Flybe to base aircraft that are not going back in a couple of years time. A LCY capable Q400 would be a considerable commitment from Flybe and will also allay any fears that the airport has of them disappearing once the E190's go back.

 

[Jerry]

I would like to think if dash was staying at cwl

The airport themselves may be looking for Flybe to show signs that they won't disappear after the E190's go back and a Q400 base would be a show of commitment from Flybe and they can continue to add new routes.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I agree that air and train could work as complementary modes of travel. Jerry has probably hit the nail on the head though when he says that Flybe would have to find more work for a based Q400 and switching some of the poorer performing E195 routes to free up the larger aircraft on routes that do require this size of aircraft might be a way forward.

 

[Jerry]

There is an article today in Wales Online which suggests CWL are hoping it becomes permanent and are after more than just a Q400. I'll quote some of the article but the rest is in Wales Online buisness section.
Airline Flybe and Cardiff Airport have left the door open for the new Cardiff to London City Airport service to become permanent.
Flybe chief executive Saad Hammad and Cardiff Airport Chairman Roger Lewis both indicated the service could continue if there was sufficient demand. Mr Lewis said " we will review after six weeks to see what has happened", while Mr Hammad added " We will keep an open mind, nothing is set in stone."
There's a bit about growth but then the interesting bit comes.
"We need to work with Saad and our other partners. To create sustainability at Cardiff airport needs a number of things, we need to look at maintenance and repair as well."
"Flybe are currently based at Exeter but we would love to attract that activity up to Cardiff as well. Our relationship with British airways has been fantastic at the maintenance centre there."
Roger Lewis has mentioned MRO before but never linked it with an airline and he has also mentioned Cargo operations. From what i remember the whole Cardiff Airport St Athan area is designated as an enterprise zone i believe. So would that be tempting for Flybe to move there HQ and MRO facilities to Cardiff airport? That would be a big coup for the airport if it happened.
Also it was mentioned that 53% of it's Cardiff bookings were made from the Cardiff end with 47% from outside of Wales with half their passengers being buisness travelers.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Ha, ha. I'd just put a similar post with a link to this article in the CWL General thread. I've since deleted it as we don't want repetition.

Interesting read.

 

[Jerry]

Ha, ha. I'd just put a similar post with a link to this article in the CWL General thread. I've since deleted it as we don't want repetition.

Interesting read.

Yes it is though i doubt Exeter would be happy if it came off! Just wondering if by moving to an enterprise zone if Flybe would get some sort of tax break or incentive and the fact that he mentioned it at all could suggest he's confident of them moving at least part of their operation to CWL.

 

[superking]

I'm not going to say any thing about the flybe thing.
I could say things that ppl on here would not like. if I did where the quotation I was told,would get me and the other party in trouble.

 

[Jerry]

Concerning the Flybe MRO thing I did have a look on the Welsh governments website about the airports and St Athans enterprise zone and there is 190 acres of land surrounding the airport set aside for development of not just offices and hotels but for logistics and education facilities as well. Will be interesting to see if anything comes about from what Roger Lewis said.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There is an enterprise zone in Exeter and East Devon that includes the Exeter Airport Business Park and Skypark right next to EXT but I'm not sure about the airport itself.

If the Skypark develops as hoped it will be a big boost to EXT bringing in a lot of business passengers. I'm not really sure what the CWL chairman is trying to say when he hints at getting a share of Flybe. St Athan is nothing to do with the airport so far as I'm aware.

http://www.skyparkexeter.co.uk

 

[Jerry]

There is an enterprise zone in Exeter and East Devon that includes the Exeter Airport Business Park and Skypark right next to EXT but I'm not sure about the airport itself.

If the Skypark develops as hoped it will be a big boost to EXT bringing in a lot of business passengers. I'm not really sure what the CWL chairman is trying to say when he hints at getting a share of Flybe. St Athan is nothing to do with the airport so far as I'm aware.

http://www.skyparkexeter.co.uk

Yeah it seems a bit weird because something like that you would keep under wraps until announcement time. Plus any Flybe MRO base at the airport would require expansion and redevelopment. Only thing i can think of is there is something going on in the background and it was designed as a spur to say the WAG to get on with whatever is happening! Because although the Welsh Secretary was there I don't think there was anyone prominent from the WAG otherwise there would've been an interview with them as politicians love the limelight! Could just be politics.

 

[Tinkerman]

That is an interesting comment from Roger Lewis there, whether it was intended or not at this stage remains unknown, but there would be a considerable financial incentive from the WG for this Flybe move/partial move to take place i imagine, and considerable commitment from BE themselves.

To note though i believe CWL has surpassed it's passenger targets set by BE when the 2x E190 base was first announced. May be a sign of good things.

 

[Jerry]

Great to hear there doing better than they thought!
Unless Flybe want to expand there MRO operations then just moving there operational HQ to the airport may give them access to financial assistance from WAG that they might not be able to access in Exeter and moving a HQ is probably easier and cheaper than moving the whole MRO i would of thought? And getting Flybe HQ at Cardiff would be positive news for the airport and secure the Flybe future at CWL. And they could also get a cheaper basing deal at CWL and use CWL to fly into more lucrative and costly airports to fly higher yielding routes out of An example would be LCY. Cardiff gets new routes and Flybe's costs are cheaper than they would be basing aircraft at more expensive airports.

 

[marsh.ger]

Would it be cost effective for Flybe to outsource their MRO to Cardiff Aviation (St Athan) and Training to Cardiff Aviation Training (Cardiff Airport). There could be a purpose built operations facility located at either Cardiff Airport/St Athan.

Flybe could move their simulators to the facility which is allready in place at Cardiff Airport. I imagine the Welsh Government would more than likely provide some financial support for re-locating to the Vale of Glamorgan.

Just thinking outside the box but i'm sure last year Flybe did visit the Cardiff Aviation Training facility

 

[Jerry]

Would it be cost effective for Flybe to outsource their MRO to Cardiff Aviation (St Athan) and Training to Cardiff Aviation Training (Cardiff Airport).

I did see a post on another forum that said Flybe wanted to leave Exeter.
Out sourcing may reduce Flybe's costs but didn't Bruce Dickinson complain that the ILS system wasn't working effecting the business. I would've thought that for Flybe the ILS would be a must? Would be good for the area if a major airline setup in the area.

 

[marsh.ger]

Yes Bruce Dickinson has complained but we don't know since that news article whether or not the MoD are actually going to do anything about it.

It was quite funny as the following day a calibrator was there again calibrating the runway.

Cardiff Airport themselves would obviously prefer for a hangar to be built at Cardiff Airport so the traffic would arrive there.

I am not convinced this will happen personally however what I am happy about is that the airport is being bold and being quite optimistic publicly which is a change.

I believe that Flybe's future at CWL will be Q400 based and even though not good for Faro I do think that a 3 x Q400 base is what I personally see CWL being. Some of the current routes could easily be daily on the Q400. We already seen that Flybe was going to go 2 x daily on GLA before EI pulled off the DUB so I think that's where the next expansion could be.

I would love the CWL-LCY to continue and maybe there is a way for this to be achieved at 2 x daily.

On a different note is that Cardiff Airport and Flybe are now a sponsor of Cardiff Devils.

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Airport themselves would obviously prefer for a hangar to be built at Cardiff Airport so the traffic would arrive there

Guessing that would take some sort of major development as I can't see where a large hangar would be placed on the current site.

I believe that Flybe's future at CWL will be Q400 based and even though not good for Faro I do think that a 3 x Q400 base is what I personally see CWL being.

The FAO route could persuade them to base 1 E175 and 2 Q400s but it'll probably be 3 Q400s like you say which is more suited to the routes they fly and Faro could be taken over by say Ryanair? Or maybe Vueling would be interested?
I think CWL-LCY may continue if Flybe open up another route from LCY as from what i know they have to fly aircraft in to operate routes out apart from the morning EDI which overnights. They also sponsor the Cardiff Blues with a plane that brings the kicking tee on! The advertising seems to be working as well!

 

[Jerry]

It looks like G-FBEM has gone tech because this mornings EDI is 4 hours late and been flown by a Q400 G-JECI which will also fly Verona as well and i'm guessing maybe ORK later?

 

[marsh.ger]

Not all delays are tech related and this was down to crew sickness.

EDI operated in reverse by a