Cardiff: General Airport Discussion & Updates

[Jerry]

but it must've shifted things slightly to bring CWL as a viable option for many.

Maybe for long haul but I'd expect that Bristol will benefit a lot more than CWL especially as the population maybe used to BRS as their airport anyway.

The WG should be latching on to that and promoting Wales as a cheap place to live but easily accessible to the bigger cities.

I'm not how turning Wales into a commuter area for London would really benefit the country and CWL. If businesses moved from London and brought high paid jobs into the area then that would be a different story but I do feel we need to be wary of turning Wales into commutersville for England.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Maybe for long haul but I'd expect that Bristol will benefit a lot more than CWL especially as the population maybe used to BRS as their airport anyway.

I'm not how turning Wales into a commuter area for London would really benefit the country and CWL. If businesses moved from London and brought high paid jobs into the area then that would be a different story but I do feel we need to be wary of turning Wales into commutersville for England.

London would be paying the wages for people living in South Wales, and subsequently spending their money in South Wales.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

My point being that the far Southwest and South Wales catchments effectively 'top up' the catchment to make BRS so successful and make those smaller demand city routes more viable. They would still work without those catchments however the growth Easyjet has seen to is it 17 aircraft now(?) might not have been possible if CWL and EXT had become more successful but smaller regional airports and retained their passengers.

I agree completely that some thinner routes at BRS only work because they are topped up by passengers from outside the airport's core catchment, notably South Wales and Devon/Cornwal, a point that I have made many times down the years across a number of aviaiton websites. These would be unlikely to work to the same degree at either CWL or EXT because (a) the core catchments are smaller and they would need more topping up than at BRS (b) CWL would not get much topping up from the EXT catchment and vice versa.

The easyJet base complement at BRS in summer 2020 should have been 18 aircraft: 10 A320s, 6 A319s, 2 A321s - thanks to Severn for that information.

If i remember rightly there's about 2m Welsh using BRS. What I would be interested in seeing is how many of those use routes from BRS that are offered, or have the potential to be offered from CWL. Again, I dont believe many city routes would be viable from CWL, some of the main ones would, but more the holiday routes. Unfortunately no Airline is willing to take the risk, especially now.

Tim Lee once addressed that point on WAN or WAF and made the valid comment that if many of the 'Welsh' passengers using BRS were using a handful of routes there would be a strong argument for more flights to these destinations from CWL, but if they were spread across many BRS destinations then some would be thinner routes not viable at CWL. I note he still posts on the Dried Fruit under his user name there although he hasn't appeared in their CWL forum for a long time. I enjoyed reading his posts and learned a lot from them.

The CAA passenger survey published in 2008 which reflected CWL's busiest ever year of 2007 when 2.1 milion passengers were handled showed that 700,000 'Welsh' passengers still used BRS. The reason might have been some routes not viable at CWL but that's a mere supposition.

I would also like to see how the shift of city moving is having an effect on the Welsh economy. We know that once the tolls went that many people started to leave the expensive BRS property markets and move to Southeast Wales, still obviously central to both CWL and BRS, but it must've shifted things slightly to bring CWL as a viable option for many.

With populations across the UK increasing that ought to make all airports have potentially larger catchments although the population growth and movement is not evenly spread.

People from the Bristol area have been moving to south-east Wales in particular for a number of years because of lower property prices. There have been regular newspaper reports saying that Gwent estate agents report 80% of the enquiries for properties emanate from the Bristol area. Prior to COVID many were commuting to Bristol each day for work adding to the severe traffic congestion that occurs on the M4 around the Almondsbury Interchange and M32 most work day mornings.

The WG should be latching on to that and promoting Wales as a cheap place to live but easily accessible to the bigger cities. Someone on London wages living in South Wales would be laughing.

As with Bristol residents moving west to Wales in search of less expensive properties a similar move has been occurring for a number of years from London to the Bristol area for the same reason, which then puts up the price of houses in both south-east Wales and Bristol as the money cascades west.

There are regular reports about Londoners moving to Bristol and its city region (there was another article in the local Bristol press about it only this weekend) which with Birmingham seems to be the most popular destination for those moving from the capital to outside the south-east. Many then commute daily to London for work - just over an hour from Bristol Parkway, about the same journey time as Brighton to London which has been a favourite destination for commuters to the capital for many, many decades.

South-east Wales could work too - it probably already does with some.

Leaving aside nationalistic reasons there is an argument that Cardiff needs an airport more than Bristol. The latter enjoys one of the most vibrant economies in the UK despite having no long-haul air routes to its local airport (other than transatlantic sun charters). It therefore relies on LHR (and benefits from it) for its long-haul, and for some of its short-haul too even when routes are operated from BRS but at frequencies or timings that are not convenient to some business travellers.

Having no airport at Bristol would obviously be a big blow for local leisure travellers but would it really hurt the city region's economy to a marked degree? LHR is 'up the road' and other airports such as BHX, CWL and EXT around its perimeter. Cardiff, being that much further away from LHR than Bristol, might not see its economy escape so easily with no local airport.

I'm not advocating the closure of BRS, just wondering how much local airports really do add to local economies.

I'm not how turning Wales into a commuter area for London would really benefit the country and CWL. If businesses moved from London and brought high paid jobs into the area then that would be a different story but I do feel we need to be wary of turning Wales into commutersville for England.

Wales is probably already beginning to become something of a 'commutersville for England' as I pointed out above with Bristol residents/workers moving west. Mind you, it's not all one-way. I know several people personally who live in the Bristol area and travel to Wales each day to work.

 

[Jerry]

London would be paying the wages for people living in South Wales, and subsequently spending their money in South Wales

Spending some money yes but if we want to make the Welsh economy stronger we need to attract the companies into the area not just their employees who want cheap housing. We need to build up our own economy not rely on a bit of spending of London commuters.

 

[Jerry]

Wales is probably already beginning to become something of a 'commutersville for England' as I pointed out above with Bristol residents/workers moving west. Mind you, it's not all one-way. I know several people personally who live in the Bristol area and travel to Wales each day to work.

Yes there is a lot housing being built in the Newport and Cardiff areas and in other parts of the country like Wrexham that are simply not going to be filled by the local population and i've seen questions asked about the actual need for these houses as well. In the end i personally don't believe that mass immigration from England and becoming commutersville is the answer to CWLs woes especially as a lot of it will be close to BRS, i think Wales needs to build up it's economy and make it's people richer rather than try to import wealtheir citizens so to speak.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Yes there is a lot housing being built in the Newport and Cardiff areas and in other parts of the country like Wrexham that are simply not going to be filled by the local population and i've seen questions asked about the actual need for these houses as well. In the end i personally don't believe that mass immigration from England and becoming commutersville is the answer to CWLs woes especially as a lot of it will be close to BRS, i think Wales needs to build up it's economy and make it's people richer rather than try to import wealtheir citizens so to speak.

Why can't both be done?
People moving out of London to the regions is a quick fix. Industry moves to Wales takes time to plan and implement. People on London wages will have more disposable income to spend.
Building the Welsh economy isn't going to happen overnight. It will take time. There is no reason why several angles to help it grow cant be done rather than just a one vision approach of expecting industries to relocate in the immediate future. People living in Wales and commuting doesn't have any direct effect on employment in the local area but will have a positive effect on spending in the local area.

That being said, Covid19 is having a huge effect on how industries look at themselves. Many are realising they can save on expensive office buildings in the city by people working from home, or downsizing to cheaper locations outside of the expensive southeast.
Eventually in the long term it could well lead to a shift.

 

[superking]

A relation of mine works for BA in LHR as a engineer on the 747 fleet. A few years back BA wanted engineers to move to CWL and the first thing to happen was a wage cut.Needless to say no one took up the chance to move.What it did do was give them more work in LHR.

 

[Jerry]

A relation of mine works for BA in LHR as a engineer on the 747 fleet.

Anyone working within the M25 usually get a London wages boost to compensate for the higher costs of living in London.

 

[Jerry]

Building the Welsh economy isn't going to happen overnight. It will take time. There is no reason why several angles to help it grow cant be done rather than just a one vision approach of expecting industries to relocate in the immediate future. People living in Wales and commuting doesn't have any direct effect on employment in the local area but will have a positive effect on spending in the local area.

Yes developing an economy will take time as for people moving from London house prices will go up and they are already becoming too high for local people to afford, there's also the cultural aspect to consider, low numbers of immigrants tend to assimilate into the local culture but high amounts of immigration can overide and supress the local culture so we need to ask do we want to turn parts of Wales into 'London' culturally just because they might spend a bit more money in the local shops and might fly from CWL on holiday now and then.

 

[superking]

They call it London weighting and people liveing insie an imaginary line get a pay enhancement. I used to get it working in Weston Super Mare for the COOP.As we were the only depot outside London they paid the extra.It was London cooperative society,all other depots inside the London ring. LHR is outside this ring,the LHR staff were on higher wages than those in Wales.

 

[Jerry]

Great view of the runway!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295758110330630146

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Airport is calling on the UK government to support the aviation industry and says one of the ways it can do that is by suspending Air Passenger Duty.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295763272898088962

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Cardiff Airport is calling on the UK government to support the aviation industry and says one of the ways it can do that is by suspending Air Passenger Duty.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295763272898088962

It's like the bottom line in an eye test. I can't read it at all. Can anyone? Nothing on the CWL website news section.

 

[Jerry]

17112[/ATTACH]]
It's like the bottom line in an eye test. I can't read it at all. Can anyone? Nothing on the CWL website news section.

Any better?View attachment 17112

 

[TheLocalYokel]

That's better. Thanks Jerry.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

At the moment I suspect that the quarantine regulations and essential travel only advice to countries such as Spain, France and the Netherlands is putting more of a brake on air travel from the UK than APD.

Until Spain became a ‘quarantine country’ many flights to it and its islands were full but now most have considerably reduced numbers. I would think the same applies with France.

If the government could find an alternative to quarantine which is really quite a blunt instrument, and next to impossible to enforce rigidly anyway, that would almost certainly have a beneficial effect on air travel. The example of Spain pre-quarantine showed that a lot of people are anxious for a holiday and willing to fly to get it. People are also concerned about going to other countries that the government might suddenly add to the quarantine list, giving travellers little time to get home without having to quarantine.

If APD was to be suspended I doubt that fares would come down much. Instead airlines would be more likely to keep fares broadly the same but retain the APD equivalent to help with cash flow. At least that might help to make the reinstatement of some routes more of a viable option, including some at CWL.

 

[Jerry]

If APD was to be suspended I doubt that fares would come down much. Instead airlines would be more likely to keep fares broadly the same but retain the APD equivalent to help with cash flow. At least that might help to make the reinstatement of some routes more of a viable option, including some at CWL.

The call for APD to be suspended is suspect is looking more to the future to get routes reinstated especially for an airport that seems to be struggling to get many of it's core routes back and may reflect a worry over the future of the Barcelona route (my personal opinion) and keeps the campaign against it going. At the moment though if there is to be some sort of stability for the travel industry UK government needs find a better option than quarintine.

 

[Jerry]

Curiousity question raised by a comment elsewhere.
Does the CWL site have room for both Ecube and Caerdav?

 

[geoff]

Blue Islands have published their Summer 2021 routes and timetable unfortunately nothing for CWL bad luck continues I'm afraid.

 

[geoff]

Even more bad news, is that Tailor Made Travel are putting 15 of their shops into hibernation for the Autumn period, their staff will be working from home during this time.