Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Jerry]

At the moment it seems to me to be at the same stage as the Viable campaign to re-open Plymouth Airport, albeit Swansea is still open - lots of hope and optimism but perhaps not so much realism. I hope I'm wrong with both.

I think it'll be a case of how deep are the investors pockets because I've heard it would need some major upgrading as well. So it depends on whether potential investors are prepared to wait a long time for a return on their money or a return at all. Could be something for the future or just a local buisness man trying to get in the paper. Guess time will tell.

 

[Seasider]

Why is someone proposing to open up new routes when so many regional airports are struggling. Surely the money would be better invested in CWL.

 

[Jerry]

Why is someone proposing to open up new routes when so many regional airports are struggling. Surely the money would be better invested in CWL.

I think it's just the ego of a local buisness man who doesn't want his football team flying from CWL! It would take a lot of money to upgrade it to regional airport level and then who flies from there? Flybe are committed to CWL. Eastern Airways would be buisness only and fly from CWL! Can't think of any other airlines. Only route i could think of would be SWS-CWL-VLY-CWL-SWS with it starting early from Swansea. Also the area is an area of outstanding natural beauty so the residents may well object to his plans. Guess we'll see what happens!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Jerry is absolutely right about ego and cost.

The man is talking about getting Flybe. They only went back to CWL, a much bigger and well established airport, because the Wales Assembly Government put millions of pounds their way. To think they'd go into Swansea as well is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Local pride seems to befuddle brains when it comes to airports. The same sort of things is happening at Plymouth where they have a perfectly adequate airport at Exeter 40 miles along the A38 dual carriageway.

 

[Jerry]

Local pride seems to befuddle brains when it comes to airports.

Yes it is basically a Cardiff v Swansea thing and unlike CWL if it goes bust again there will be no WAG riding to the rescue!

He'd have a better chance of trying to get a North Wales one going than Swansea!

 

[Jerry]

More cruise flights from Cardiff!

Celebrity Cruises has confirmed a new flight to Rome on 31st July 2017 where passengers will meet the Celebrity Reflection ship before embarking on a Best of the Western Mediterranean trip calling at Florence, Pisa, Nice, Barcelona, Malaga,Gibraltar, Cartagena and Ibiza.
As well Thomson will be operating 2 cruise flights to Dubai on the 23rd January and 20th February 2017 and Bridgetown 8th January 2017 and 5th March 2017 and P&O Cruises are also doing cruise flights to Genoa 5th October 2016 as well as Bridgetown Barbados 18th February 2017 and 18th March 2017 for the ship Azura and 19th November 2016 and 13th January and 28 January 2017 for the ship Britannia.
Good that CWL is getting extra flights hopefully there'll be more to come!

Edit:Also found out that Celebrity X cruises will be doing a private charter to Barcelona on 31st July 2017 for a cruise on the Constellation and Norwegian Cruise Line will be doing a flight to Venice on the 4th June 2017 for a cruise on the Star.

 

[Aviador]

TheLocalYokel you've compared football supporters and aviation enthusiasts on many occasions in the past. Is this where the similarity between the two come together?

 

[Jerry]

The rivalry between Cardiff and Swansea goes beyond football and sport. I think many from Swansea in a way resent Cardiff being the capital and bigger city.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

TheLocalYokel you've compared football supporters and aviation enthusiasts on many occasions in the past. Is this where the similarity between the two come together?

It could well do given the football club antecedents of the man leading this initiative. Touching on Jerry's comments, there is certainly no love lost between the followers of Swansea City and Cardiff City football clubs despite a shared love of ornithology.

The rivalry between Cardiff and Swansea goes beyond football and sport. I think many from Swansea in a way resent Cardiff being the capital and bigger city.

Cardiff certainly seems to get the lion's share of public money and most of the national sporting and arts facilities are located there. I suppose that might upset some of the good burghers of Swansea, and some of the bad ones for that matter.

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff certainly seems to get the lion's share of public money and most of the national sporting and arts facilities are located there.

Yes personally i think the WAG are hoping investment in Cardiff will help other areas around it and I do think more sporting events could go to places like Swansea and other areas and I think the Commonwealth games could have done that. Despite being very nationalistic sometimes Wales can be very divided.

 

[Tinkerman]

Couldn't agree more, i live in Cardiff and work in Swansea so get to experience both cultures on a daily basis. Locals in Swansea were absolutely fuming that the Wales Football Team parade after the Euros was in Cardiff and that Swansea was not even considered, basically they are claiming they don't get a look in on all fronts.

A walk through the city centre would also tell you that Cardiff has received so much more investment than Swansea. There's no room for SWS on the aviation scene, not now and not in the future. It serves its purpose as a GA airfield quite well, no need at all for an airport there. Just because it's more than an hours drive from CWL they want an airport there ? Does that mean we need to build loads of new airports to cater for this sort of desire ? I think not.

The aviation scene throughout the UK is a result of the World Wars were airfields were cropping up here there and everywhere, and have now automatically assumed to be airports (in a large number of cases). Opening up SWS or any other airport in South Wales would be completely unviable from both a financial and market availability perspective. However, my thoughts on North Wales are completely different, i would highly favour the development of CEG and moving the VLY service there permanently since it better serves North Wales as a whole, and who knows, may even attract some passenger flights sometime in the distant future, despite its proximity to MAN and BHX.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Your point about airports pitching up in all sorts of places, often not very practical, following the closure of many WW2 airfields is certainly true, Tinkerman.

Although this is not the thread to do it in, it would be interesting to think where airports ought to be sited if there were no financial or environmental constraints because many of the UK's airports are clearly in the wrong place, with Severnside being an obvious example.

Incidentally, I meant to comment on Jerry's earlier post and say that it's good news for CWL and its region that more transatlantic and other cruise flights have been announced.

 

[Jerry]

I go to Swansea vary rarely and mostly that's industrial estates on the edge of the city and nothing really seems to change while Cardiff seems to change all the time! And the football has seemed to make an effort to make Cardiff it's home even though you could say Swansea is the more successful city football wise.

In the long run they might be able to have a small airfield which could take private jets and the odd football charter but it would be a lot of money to spend just so a few executives don't have to travel to CWL.

I agree CEG would be a better option to develop as a regional airport as it would be in easy reach of most of the North and Mid Wales population. If I remember Airbus own it?

 

[CraigW92]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/wales-getting-wealthier-cardiff-booming-11814719

Encouraging, A booming Cardiff and a more prosperous South Wales region will certainly be helpful for the airport

 

[Jerry]

Just got back from my trip to the US. Flew back in today on the 16.45 KLM flight and 20 minutes after getting to the gate was in my car! Much better than having a long drive from Heathrow! Also noticed there was a good mix of British, Chinese, Dutch and American pax on board the full flight.
The departure flight was also full and it was good to see the departure area was rammed at 4 am with many people starting their holiday with a pint and a full English breakfast!

 

[Jerry]

Seen on the news today that Carwyn Jones is on a 5 day trade visit to the US. I wonder if he'll be talking to any US based airlines? Though I can't understand why the First ministers office decided yet again decided to fly to the USA from Heathrow rather than Cardiff. Surely it would've been good PR for both having the First Minister of Wales flying on official buisness from CWL. Especially as the WAG own the airport!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Just got back from my trip to the US. Flew back in today on the 16.45 KLM flight and 20 minutes after getting to the gate was in my car! Much better than having a long drive from Heathrow! Also noticed there was a good mix of British, Chinese, Dutch and American pax on board the full flight.
The departure flight was also full and it was good to see the departure area was rammed at 4 am with many people starting their holiday with a pint and a full English breakfast!

Good to hear but if the place gets any busier there will be complaints of overcrowding.

Seen on the news today that Carwyn Jones is on a 5 day trade visit to the US. I wonder if he'll be talking to any US based airlines? Though I can't understand why the First ministers office decided yet again decided to fly to the USA from Heathrow rather than Cardiff. Surely it would've been good PR for both having the First Minister of Wales flying on official buisness from CWL. Especially as the WAG own the airport!

This has come up before. One person on another web forum is particularly vocal about it and has contacted the WAG in the past. The reply was that the government always uses the most cost-effective way of transporting all their people, including senior politicians. I can't imagine Carwyn sitting down the back though when on government business.

It looks for the moment that scheduled NYC services from the regions are becoming even harder to achieve. NCL has lost its route and now BHX is to lose own of its routes.

 

[Jerry]

I can't imagine Carwyn sitting down the back though when on government business

Definitely Buisness class! but in the end he is the First Minister of Wales so the First Minister of Wales should be flying out of Wales on official welsh government buisness. You wouldn't see the First Minister of Scotland travelling to say Newcastle to fly out of there because it was cheaper. The Scottish government would use Edinburgh or Glasgow even if they didn't have direct flights.

It looks for the moment that scheduled NYC services from the regions are becoming even harder to achieve.

I doubt CWL will see a North American route any time soon but that doesn't mean that the welsh government shouldn't be banging the drum for CWL with airlines like United or Delta as part of the trade mission. Also with the WAG involved then maybe an incentive payment like the one the Northern Irish government has done with United could be arranged? Would be interesting to know if a representative from the airport went on the trade mission.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Whether an airline would start a CWL-NYC route, as opposed to maintaining an existing one as in the case of United's BFS-EWR, on the basis of a subsidy from the government is open to debate. I suppose it depends whether they'd make more money that way than by flying multi rotations from the likes of LHR without subsidy.

I don't know what United will do when the NI government subsidy lapses (I can't imagine it will go on forever) because, unless market conditions improve considerably in the next few years, the airline will be back to the point where they were going to withdraw the route.

Another thing is that the NI government's subsidy appears to be illegal state aid under EU rules. So far no-one has challenged this but if the WAG tried it at CWL I can think of one airport's owners who would be looking closely. Of course, if/when we leave the EU that situation might alter.

A daily NYC flight from a small UK airport is quite limited in value in my view. When BRS had it they obviously made a big noise about it but unless you were flying to the New York area, it was often no quicker than flying via Amsterdam (and now additionally via Dublin, Brussels or even Frankfurt) if your final destination was elsewhere in North America. You still had to change aircraft and sometimes endure a wait of two or three hours which was the same whether at EWR or AMS etc.

 

[Jerry]

I think that for many small airports that a NYC route is seen as prestigious for the region it serves hence why the NI government paid so much to keep Belfasts.
In practical terms it would probably be better for the airport to concentrate on increasing it's hub flights to places like DUB and AMS. I also wonder if with VY if BCN could also be developed as a hub route. In a way it is a pity about the situation in Turkey as Istanbul may have had the potential to be a more practical eastern hub route than one of the ME3.
Another thing that baffles me is that a while ago it was mentioned that a low cost carrier was interested in CWL but nothing has materialised and nothing has been mentioned since.