Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Tinkerman]

It is a very interesting interview indeed and one which i have listened to today.

The US thing is the most intriguing, 2019 so not next Summer but the one after perhaps ? Would be interesting, and if i was to pluck something out of the air i'd say he was referring to a weekly TCX A330 service to MCO. After that, New York becomes even more intriguing and one which i don't think will come to anything for CWL - The US market isn't really as great as it once was, and i believe that QR can cater for most connecting needs East, whilst KLM will do a job for the West (US included) - Or even connections through DUB.

Also i'm quite surprised to hear that the departures is getting yet another £2 million revamp so soon after the last one. Although i think this will perhaps expand the Executive Lounge ready for QR Premium ops in May, whilst also allowing a large departures area which currently looks really quite confined given the relatively poor layout and little space. There is a huge amount of space near Gate 1 which can be better utilised for the Executive Lounge, making more departure space for passengers.

Inevitably CWL will end up with a new terminal, although whether that is 5, 10, 15 years away remains to be seen. I guess the timescale will be a function of how much further growth occurs, since there isn't really much else the terminal can give above 2.5-3MPPA. It is also worth noting that a WG-wide focus on operating expenditure for buildings could play a role, which given the current terminal buildings age i can almost guarantee that running costs are anything but cheap and the whole building is anything but efficient !

 

[Jerry]

TCX returning to MCO would be great (if they are the airline in question) and hopefully the airport can persuade them that a summer long haul programme is profitable for them. The winter long haul programme seems to be doing ok at the moment with TOM and cruise flights. I also wonder if P&O could be persuaded to launch some summer cruise packages from Cardiff.
I think with NYC a lot of it would be looking at attracting American tourists into Wales just as much as providing hub links as in a way it would be just as easy for someone like me to use AMS as flying via NYC. For NYC i'd imagine they would be looking at maybe Norwegian or Primera with a MAX service 3 to 4 times a week.
It will be interesting to see how they redesign the departures lounge, i wonder if there could be an extension built onto to it or if there is unused internal space? They obviously feel the last revamp was inadequate.
As regards to any new terminal could they use solar panels and wind turbines at an airport to make it more environmentally friendly?

 

[rollo]

I hope the Caribbean flights don't get scaled back after recent events with people not booking. As terrible as the winds have been in the region, the Caribbean is used to hurricanes and they're a resilient bunch.

My wife and I are due to fly from BHX in late November to Bridgetown on a P&O cruise and have received an email today stating no cruises are being canceled from this winters program but to expect minor changes in itinerary (whatever that means ) so I presume flight schedules remain as announced.

 

[rollo]

I can't see the hurricanes effecting it. Caribbean wise the amount of flights are the same just to 2 different destinations. There were 9 to Barbados 5 for P&O 4 for Thomson and no Jamaica flights. We are missing the Dubai flights this year though.

My wife and I are due to fly from BHX in late November to Bridgetown on a P&O cruise and have received an email today stating no cruises are being canceled from this winters program but to expect minor changes in itinerary (whatever that means ) so I presume flight schedules remain as announced.

 

[Jerry]

but to expect minor changes in itinerary (whatever that means )

It probably means they may not be able to stop at certain islands because of the damage sustained during the hurricane.

 

[Tinkerman]

Wind turbines are a no go anywhere near the approach to an airport/airfield. From personal experience, near Glasgow there was a WF which had many issues of this nature.

 

[rollo]

It probably means they may not be able to stop at certain islands because of the damage sustained during the hurricane.

Yes it certainly means that, definitely St Martin in our case (so no visit to Maho Beach dam) it's just I'm always wary of cruise companies as they are really good at extracting money out of people or offering less for the original pricewhilst making it look like you're getting more , even Mr O'Leary can learn from them don't tell him.

LOL
rollo

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Airport is aiming for a new terminal which could cost up to £100 million and 3 million passengers by 2025.
The Cardiff office of design, planning and engineering firm Arup have been tasked to draw up a long term master plan for the airport including a new terminal and for the masterplan to be completed by April, they will look at funding coats for the new terminal and location though it not to be believed to be by the railway line.
The airport wants to bring onboard long term investors to help fund the project with the Welsh government maintaining some sort of influence whether through shareholding, a covenant or a golden share. Maybe the ownership structure of Manchester or Birmingham airports can be examples of what the Welsh government wants.

Passenger numbers wise Roger Lewis is hoping the 2 million mark can be reached as quickly as possible, though for that they would need to have someone like Ryanair, Jet2 or Monarch or even Norwegian and Easyjet willing to base aircraft at the airport or expand their route offerings, so hopefully something is around the corner for that and of course for Flybe to continue to add aircraft to their base and the other airlines based and operating from CWL to expand what they offer as well ie TCX going year round and TOM continuing to work with Flybe to add more holiday packages and maybe attract other airlines like Eurowings in the future.
At the moment it does look like the airport is going in the right direction.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/busine...d=932713&icid=EM_WalesOnline_Nletter_Business

 

[TheLocalYokel]

They will certainly need a substantial injection of private investment for that sort of outlay.

3 million passengers by 2025 seems distinctly unambitious. They should achieve that easily and more, unless something happens nationally or internationally that has a serious negative affect on air travel. Currently most airports seem to be going from strength to strength in so far as passenger numbers are concerned.

 

[Jerry]

3 million passengers by 2025 seems distinctly unambitious.

I think he's just being realistic and i think it is a more realistic number than say 4 or 5 million. Being realistic you have to ask what type of numbers Cardiff can achieve. Looking at the Flybe base then i'd say in the future a 4 aircraft (2 E jets and 2 Q400s) would be realistic. Attracting someone like Monarch or Jet2 or Ryanair to base 1 or 2 aircraft should be a realistic goal or maybe Vueling expanding routes and offering routes like Ibiza or Seville, though personally i can't see VY offering more than they do now. I can't see TOM basing more aircraft but they could be persuaded to offer more through other airlines and maybe expand their winter long haul offerings or base bigger aircraft. A possible goal could be as well getting TCX to base an aircraft year round and maybe base a 2nd aircraft in the summer like they do at NCL. Long haul wise getting at least a 4 weekly MAX service to say NYC and maybe a weekly MCO service in the summer could also be realistic. there is also the possibility of airlines like say B&H or Iberia Express who may well launch one route services.
With what i just suggested if achieved should push the airports numbers up towards 3 million. I don't think that CWL would be like say LBA or NCL where they have 3 LCC airlines, i think 2 is more realistic for CWL. Also with BRS just around the corner there are always going to be routes that aren't sustainable for CWL and there will always be some sort of passenger drain towards it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I suppose there are things to be said for a cautious approach. If you exceed the target it looks much better than if you pitch too high and fail to live up. CWL's current master plan published in 2006 fell into that trap, although it's not the only airport to have done so, when it projected nearly 4.8 mppa by 2015.

At the time CWL was growing steadily - it had risen from 1.5 mppa in 2000 to just under 2 mppa in 2006 - so in that context it's not difficult to understand the projection.

What wasn't known were the debilitating effects that a major recession would bring about and an airport owner falling out of love with its airport.

 

[Jerry]

I suppose there are things to be said for a cautious approach.

And for the airport there is the political part to consider. If the target is set to high and they fall short the opposition in the Senedd will use it as ammunition against the welsh government and it's purchase of the airport and if the target is realistic and achieved the welsh government can use it to trumpet the success down to their purchase and investment.

 

[Jerry]

Roger Lewis has called for Air Passenger Duty to be devolved to Wales and that Wales should have the same powers as Scotland and Northern Ireland and that with the start of the Qatar Airways flights in May 2018 that this would benefit not just Wales but the South West of England as well. Roger Lewis has written to the Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns asking him to bring forward a plan of action. APD devolved to Wales would benefit Qatar's South West passengers but not KLM's but if the case for it benefiting the South West can be made then maybe like the Severn Bridge the Westminster government will be more amenable especially with the Brexit bill vote that has to go through the Senedd coming up, guess it's a case of wait and see.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/wales-should-same-power-scotland-13650806

 

[Jerry]

A bit of romance at Cardiff Airport. Dan Jones gave his girlfriend Hayley a surprise marriage proposal before their flight to Corfu in Greece with Thomson on Friday 25th August (i think).
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-airport-proposal-wedding-13531526

 

[Jerry]

Could be a good boost for Cardiff Airport and the area in 2020. The FAW have put in a late bid to UEFA to replace Brussels as a host city for the football European Championship 2020.
The Principality Stadium could end up hosting 1 group game which could involve Wales and a last 16 game.
The other contenders to replace Brussels, whose new stadium looks not likely to be built in time, are Wembley which is already hosting games and is the venue for the final and Stockholm. A decision is expected to be made by UEFA in December.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wales-could-now-host-euro-13650995

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Airports stand at World Routes in Barcelona.
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/911910604860018688

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Roger Lewis has called for Air Passenger Duty to be devolved to Wales and that Wales should have the same powers as Scotland and Northern Ireland and that with the start of the Qatar Airways flights in May 2018 that this would benefit not just Wales but the South West of England as well. Roger Lewis has written to the Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns asking him to bring forward a plan of action. APD devolved to Wales would benefit Qatar's South West passengers but not KLM's but if the case for it benefiting the South West can be made then maybe like the Severn Bridge the Westminster government will be more amenable especially with the Brexit bill vote that has to go through the Senedd coming up, guess it's a case of wait and see.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/wales-should-same-power-scotland-13650806

I think Roger Lewis will have a hard time convincing those in the South West that devolving APD to Wales would be good for the South West.

It might be beneficial to potential Qatar travellers in the South West (the West Country really as the South West is generally taken to describe the wider region especially Devon and Cornwall), although that assumes the WG will reduce APD to nil or abolish it as they previously indicated (same thing so far as travellers are concerned) and that Qatar will reduce fares by the whole APD amount or at least a good proportion of it. Qatar might be mindful of the effect such action would have on their operation at BHX though.

Either way should be a win for CWL because a reduction in fares potentially means more passengers to boost ancillary revenue streams but if fares are not reduced by much Qatar's yields would be improved considerably thus cementing CWL's position.

What Roger Lewis hasn't mentioned is the effect on BRS's long haul traffic via hubs which is subject to the long haul APD rate. KLM would have the Qatar choice of reducing CWL fares or not reducing them but increasing yield thus making CWL more attractive to them. Lufthansa might look at CWL for hub long haul and EIR would probably return to get a piece of the non-APD long haul action. TUI would almost certainly switch its summer transatlantic charter routes across the estuary.

All this would impact negatively on the West Country economy.

For the purpose of this post I have assumed that only long haul APD would be devolved which is what was proposed by the Silk Commission with the possibility of devolution of all APD at a later date.

 

[Jerry]

I think Roger Lewis will have a hard time convincing those in the South West that devolving APD to Wales would be good for the South West.

In the end he doesn't have to convince the West Country but the UK government and with everything that is going on with Brexit if devolving long haul APD helps get the Great Repeal Bill through the Senedd then it may well be a small price to pay for the UK government especially as Theresa May has said she wants the consent of all the devolved institutions for the Great Repeal Bill and there is a growing feeling that Wales needs to be started to be treated equally with Scotland and Northern Ireland with the power's for the Senedd.
Yes it will have an effect on BRS and boost CWL a bit but there is no way of knowing by how much the airlines themselves would drop their prices. To me TOM seem pretty loyal to BRS, they know there is always the possibility that long APD could be devolved to Wales yet went ahead with launching a transatlantic schedule from BRS. I honestly don't think they would move, there could be the possibility they could launch CWL flights as extra to Sanford and maybe Cancun for their Welsh passengers but by then it could be possible CWL would have it's own airline operating North American and Caribbean flights. With Aer Lingus i don't think even with APD gone there would be enough passengers to sustain both Flybe and Aer Lingus on the DUB route especially with KLM there and the possibilty of direct East Coast services from the mystery airline or airlines Roger Lewis said they were talking to on the radio the other week. With KLM we could see the reinstatement of a 4th flight but in the end for them the passengers would still be using there service and they might just deploy more E175's to BRS instead of E190's. Lufthansa i couldn't see moving or launching a CWL operation but i could be wrong. In the end we can only guess how the airlines respond.
I do believe that the South West in the long run needs to realise that they will eventually have an autonomous Wales on their doorstep with tax powers like APD devolved and in the end it's own judiciary (a newly retired judge is starting a report on it for the welsh government and Carwyn Jones has mentioned it in an interview) like Scotland has and maybe in the long run it's own version of the pound like Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Aviation wise this will mean BRS will face a CWL which may be operating with no APD at all.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Rather than go off at a tangent on political matters in this thread I'll just say here that my previous post was simply a rebuttal of Roger Lewis's statement that APD devolution to Wales would help the South West; it didn't seek to present a view on whether it was likely to happen.

It would be interesting to hear the view of Roger Lewis if the boot was on the other foot with BRS trying to get itself a taxation advantage. I doubt that he'd say it would help Wales.

 

[Jerry]

I'd imagine he'd be dead against it!