Cardiff: (CWL) - General Thread

[Jerry]

In his letter to Roger Lewis the First Minister Mark Drakeford said ''It cannot be fair that Wales is remains the only devolved nation in the UK that does not have some control over APD''.
https://www.cardiff-airport.com/uploads/FM letter to RL FEB19.pdf

 

[TheLocalYokel]

News

10 MAY
Cardiff Airport calls for APD to be devolved

Ahead of the report from the Welsh Affairs Committee Inquiry into the devolution of Air Passenger Duty (APD) to Wales expected later this month, Cardiff Airport has reinforced its position on the matter – calling for the tax to be devolved and then reduced or abolished.
Cardiff Airport believes that the devolution and subsequent modification of APD in Wales offers a significant opportunity to create value for both the Airport and region, supporting an integrated UK aviation strategy without detrimental impact on airports across the border in England.

Devolution alone would not directly affect the Airport business however, it would offer the Welsh Government the discretion to set levels appropriately for Wales.

A letter (as attached) from the First Minister of Wales, Mark Drakeford to Cardiff Airport Chairman Roger Lewis reaffirms the Welsh Government’s commitment to using APD as an important economic tool and the opportunity it offers for Wales. Please click here to view the letter.
https://www.cardiff-airport.com/uploads/FM letter to RL FEB19.pdf

It is the subsequent reduction or abolishment of APD, which would positively affect Cardiff Airport and the regional economy by stimulating airline activity resulting in more passengers and business growth.

The subsequent modification (reduction/abolishment) of APD in Wales will benefit Cardiff Airport by;

• Stimulating airline interest
• Improving route viability
• Improving the opportunity for airline growth
• Increasing airport passenger numbers
• Improving airport profitability

Customers will benefit by;

• Increasing choice
• Reducing costs

The region will benefit by;

• Stimulating economic growth
• Supporting the aspirations for a ‘Western Powerhouse’
• Adding trade links
• Stimulating inbound tourism

The UK will benefit by;

• Reducing pressure on London Airports
• Supporting an integrated UK Aviation Strategy

Deb Barber, CEO at Cardiff Airport said, “Cardiff Airport believes that the modification of APD offers a significant opportunity to create value for both the Airport and region supporting an integrated UK aviation strategy. With Brexit on the horizon, the UK should seize the opportunity and take forward solutions to be more competitive, stimulate investment and encourage global connectivity.

“Devolution allows the Welsh Government the discretion to set levels appropriately for Wales. It is the subsequent reduction or abolishment of APD, which would positively affect Cardiff Airport by stimulating airline activity resulting in more passengers and business growth. This supports aspirations for a ‘Western Powerhouse’ and an integrated UK Aviation Strategy.”

Devolving APD would give Wales parity with other devolved governments (Scotland and Northern Ireland) and has cross party support with representatives understanding the benefits a reduction or abolishment would bring.
Displacing air travel to/from London airports will help reduce carbon emissions from long car journeys by keeping air travel within the region.
Evidence from Northpoint Aviation’s report into the impact of devolution of APD shows that the devolution of APD will not adversely affect Bristol Airport.


More information on the Welsh Affairs Committee inquiry can be found here:
https://www.parliament.uk/business/...rliament-2017/air-passenger-duty-wales-17-19/
https://www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2019/05/10/cardiff-airport-calls-for-apd-to-be-devolved/

Interesting comment from the First Minister that APD devolution to Wales would be a win for Wales, south-west England and the UK.

I don't follow that. How, for example, would it be a win for south-west England if BRS lost some capacity to CWL as would certainly be the case? It would be a win for Wales, at least for South Wales, without a doubt. If the FM is looking at Qatar as being good for south-west England, then yes it's another option for people in that area flying long-haul to the east, but CWL attracted that route with APD in place.

Furthermore, if the FM's case is that extra services from CWL would be good for south-west England, and it patently is, then the same must apply in reverse, ie services from BRS are good for Wales, or at least South Wales. I've not heard anyone from the WG suggest that.

If BRS is not allowed to expand beyond 10 mppa then that in itself will bring about expansion at CWL (and EXT) without the need for APD devolution.

 

[geoff]

TLY what is the position in local politics regarding the possible upping of passengers above 10 million at BRS, in the Bristol and North Somerset area, are most of the population in favour?

 

[Jerry]

Interesting comment from the First Minister that APD devolution to Wales would be a win for Wales, south-west England and the UK.

I think it may be that if they can convince the UK government that it can benefit not just Wales but parts of England then it's more likely that it'll be devolved as it's clear that the UK government don't want it to just help Wales alone.
The only way I can think of it benefiting the South West is if CWL was able to attract more scheduled long haul routes that BRS hasn't been able to attract.
What the focus of devolving APD should be is on generating more inbound tourism into Wales and benefiting Wales as a country. No doubt there will be increases on the holiday routes but inbound city routes should be more viable though of course the airlines would actually have to be interested in operating routes to Wales in the first place.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

TLY what is the position in local politics regarding the possible upping of passengers above 10 million at BRS, in the Bristol and North Somerset area, are most of the population in favour?

Whenever Bristol Airport expansion features - and it has done so significantly several times over the last 30 years, with the last in 2011 when the current and recent infrastructure expansion was approved by the local authority - straw polls conducted by the local news media always seem to result in a roughly 70:30 breakdown in favour of expansion.

That is also broadly the percentage (just over 70%) that resulted from a YouGov poll conducted late last year on behalf of the airport, although I am always suspicious of any poll carried out for an organisation as questions can be slanted to arrive at a result the sponsor wants. As an aside, that's why two studies by recognised aviation consultants (Northpoint and York) arrived at different conclusions as to the effects of Welsh APD devolution on Bristol Airport. Northpoint was commissioned by the Welsh Government and York by Bristol Airport.

In 2011 a group calling itself StopBristolAirportExpansion (SBAE) was widely acknowledged as one of the best organised, best funded and best connected of any such group in the country or even further afield. It organised worldwide protests against the expansion with formal objections coming from as far away as Australia - probably from environmental groups there who had never before even heard of Bristol let alone Bristol Airport. Despite that, the major expansion plans were approved and much of them subsequently turned into actuality, and later legal challenges failed to have the planning permission overturned.

The current SBAE seems more of a grass routes organisation and more amateur in approach. For example, on their website they have listed a number of factual inaccuracies - untruths in fact, although whether deliberate or misinformed or uninformed I would not like to speculate, at least publicly - which then undermines the positive aspects of their arguments, and without doubt they have some.

The group seems to be made up in the main of local nimbys - 'we don't mind an airport as long as it's anywhere but here' - and people who are concerned about climate change.

So to summarise the answer to your question: when asked there appears to be a significant majority of people in the BRS catchment who are not against expansion (which is not necessarily the same thing as saying they are all for it) compared with the dedicated opponents, although the latter always make a lot more noise and are good copy for the local news media.

I said elsewhere that I believe that, with the sea change in the political make-up of North Somerset unitary authority following the recent election, the chances of BRS gaining local authority approval for its 12 mppa planning application have diminished significantly. The current national and international focus on climate change won't help either. The airport authorities might have to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate if their plans are rejected which, even if eventually successful, would take time. They might not have that much time as 9 mppa is expected to be passed by the end of this year, with airlines perhaps looking a year or more in advance with their own plans beginning to factor in the possibility that BRS might be capped at 10 mppa for the foreseeable future.

 

[Jerry]

The current national and international focus on climate change won't help either.

There are a few posters on the other forum who are saying that is the reason Wales won't get APD devolved and even if it did then the Welsh government wouldn't be able to abolish it or cut it and the Scottish governments recent decision has been pointed at as well. I personally couldn't see the WG finally getting hold of it and not doing something with it, whether reducing, cutting or changing it.

 

[geoff]

Thank you TLY for your very informative information, it would appear that it is the North Somerset local authority who are the ones not too enthusiastic over the airports expansion.

 

[Cardiffbay]

Not sure where to put this but there are reports of an aircraft down in Usk. Hope all is onboard are ok. Seems to be a light aircraft. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/a40-crash-plane-abergavenny-usk-16262412

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There are a few posters on the other forum who are saying that is the reason Wales won't get APD devolved and even if it did then the Welsh government wouldn't be able to abolish it or cut it and the Scottish governments recent decision has been pointed at as well. I personally couldn't see the WG finally getting hold of it and not doing something with it, whether reducing, cutting or changing it.

The climate change issue has suddenly come to the forefront nationally and internationally and politicians are always alive to the popular mood, mainly with an eye to re-election when the time comes around. No doubt if APD was devolved the WG would take a closer look than might have been the case at how the notion of APD abolition/reduction might lead to an unacceptable level of increased emissions if the hoped-for increase in flights eventuated.

Unless there was an overwhelming backlash thoughout Wales that might have a significant effect on the constitution of a future government I would agree that the current administration would use its newly-acquired powers to ease the APD regime in the country.

In reality, short of something of titanic and completely unexpected proportions, air travel will continue to grow around the world, including the UK.

A senior Westminster civil servant suggested recently that the growth of air travel might have to be curbed in the UK if climate change is to be adddressed seriously. It's no good a tiny country on the edge of the European mainland acting in isolation if the rest of the world goes on its merry way. That would be pain with no gain.

 

[Jerry]

Not sure where to put this but there are reports of an aircraft down in Usk. Hope all is onboard are ok. Seems to be a light aircraft. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/a40-crash-plane-abergavenny-usk-16262412

There were 3 people in the aircraft and they've been taken to hospital and treated for minor injuries.

 

[Jerry]

A senior Westminster civil servant suggested recently that the growth of air travel might have to be curbed in the UK if climate change is to be adddressed seriously. It's no good a tiny country on the edge of the European mainland acting in isolation if the rest of the world goes on its merry way. That would be pain with no gain.

It's all talk as the reality is air travel is growing and the UK as an island is reliant on it.
I do wonder though if the Welsh Affairs committee suggests that APD should be devolved then if the climate change thing would be a ready made excuse not to go with its recommendation.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There were 3 people in the aircraft and they've been taken to hospital and treated for minor injuries.

That's good news.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It's all talk as the reality is air travel is growing and the UK as an island is reliant on it.
I do wonder though if the Welsh Affairs committee suggests that APD should be devolved then if the climate change thing would be a ready made excuse not to go with its recommendation.

Governments don't always follow the recommendations of Select Committees, and with Commissions such as the Silk Commission they usually only abide by those parts of the recommendations that suit their agenda or policy.

On its own APD is a minor part of the taxation package but it is symptomatic of the mess successive Westminster governments have got us into with partial devoluton of powers to devolved governments but not in an even way. Add that to England having no government of its own and with elected representatives from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland having a say on purely English matters, as would be the case with APD if the power was fully devolved to the other governments but with no reciprocal input from elected English representatives, it's little wonder that there are so many inconsistensies.

 

[Jerry]

On its own APD is a minor part of the taxation package but it is symptomatic of the mess successive Westminster governments have got us into with partial devoluton of powers to devolved governments but not in an even way.

The whole devolution balance is off. Wales really should have equal powers to Scotland by now but I do feel at the heart of Westminster that Wales is viewed differently as almost inferior to the Scots andless respected. I do wonder if things will change if the independence movement gains momentum. There was a pro independence march in Cardiff yesterday with about 2000 people attending and it's had a lot of news coverage as well. Welsh independence does seem to be talked about a lot more especially since Brexit and of course for the airport an independent government would have the ability to adjust APD how it wants.

 

[Seasider]

I think I read last week on 't'internet that Scotland has decided not to remove APD.

 

[superking]

I thought APD in Northern Ireland was Allowed to be devolved for the United flights to the states.This was done to keep the service in BFS.I don't think it was a full devolve.

 

[Jerry]

I thought APD in Northern Ireland was Allowed to be devolved for the United flights to the states.This was done to keep the service in BFS.I don't think it was a full devolve.

Northern Ireland has had long haul APD devolved in order to compete with Dublin.

I think I read last week on 't'internet that Scotland has decided not to remove APD.

Yes they are saying it's due to the climate change but they were having trouble i believe getting the Highland and Islands airports exempt from any changes as they are exempt from APD already.
The difference is that both devolved institutions have had forms of APD devolved which the Welsh Government believes unfair.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Isn’t the real issue here is that the devolved Governments of Northern Ireland and Scotland are stronger than the Welsh Government.

The reason being is that they are no affiliated with the major parties in Westminster.

The Welsh Conservative MP’s instead of fighting what is right for Wales only fight what benefits their career. Alun Cairns is most hypocritical in my opinion on this matter. He will pop up to promote anything to do with Cardiff Airport but when it comes to APD then he towed the party line. (How else is he so high up in the Conservative Party).

 

[Jerry]

Isn’t the real issue here is that the devolved Governments of Northern Ireland and Scotland are stronger than the Welsh Government.

Yes unfortunately Wales is just to politically weak to get a power like APD out of the UK government especially although only minor its a power that may effect English interests and that is the continued flow of people flying from England and putting money into the English economy.
I do think as well the fact that CWL has been attracting airlines also lessens the argument for devolving APD in the UK government's mind. Even though Flybe will be leaving I don't think that will help to change anything.
As for Alun Cairns he's a career politician bent on climbing the greasy pole of government.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting article from Carwyn Jones the former First minister and the importance of Cardiff Airport to Wales.
https://businessnewswales.com/the-importance-of-cardiff-airport-to-the-welsh-economy/