Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Ray Finkle]

Newmarket Holidays website is showing Flybe on Wednesdays.

Departing flight • Wed 28 Aug 2019

14:05 Cardiff (CWL) 17:15 Verona Villafranca (VRN) Economy Flybe

Returning flight • Wed 4 Sep 2019

17:55 Verona Villafranca (VRN) 19:15 Cardiff (CWL) Economy Flybe

 

[Jerry]

Newmarket Holidays website is showing Flybe on Wednesdays.

Departing flight • Wed 28 Aug 2019

14:05 Cardiff (CWL) 17:15 Verona Villafranca (VRN) Economy Flybe

Returning flight • Wed 4 Sep 2019

17:55 Verona Villafranca (VRN) 19:15 Cardiff (CWL) Economy Flybe

Those are this years times on the jets.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Those are this years times on the jets.

Apologies, it's been a looong day.

 

[Ray Finkle]

These are showing for 2020.

Departure
Flybe
Wed 1 Jul 2020
Cardiff (CWL)
14:10 - 17:15

Return
Flybe
Wed 8 Jul 2020
Verona Villafranca (VRN)
17:55 - 19:15

 

[Jerry]

These are showing for 2020.

Departure
Flybe
Wed 1 Jul 2020
Cardiff (CWL)
14:10 - 17:15

Return
Flybe
Wed 8 Jul 2020
Verona Villafranca (VRN)
17:55 - 19:15

Could be that they are just selling as if the flight's will be happening and will change things at a later date

 

[Jarvo]

I was watching some of the Public Accounts Committee evidence session from the 03/06/19 and Roger Lewis, the chairman, made the points about the fact being wholly owned by a state means that the necessary investment for facilities isn't realistic, pointing to Bristol's 250m+ loan facility with their investors.
Out of general interest, does anyone here have any potential investors they could imagine investing in the airport in the medium term? Maybe potentially courting a Qatari wealth fund since the Qatari Investment Authority already owns 20% of Heathrow? Bearing in mind the fact that the WAG is not going to give up a controlling share in the airport.

 

[Jerry]

Out of general interest, does anyone here have any potential investors they could imagine investing in the airport in the medium term?

I suppose you could compile a list an arms length from pension funds to state investment funds to regional airport owners. Any investor though will no doubt want to see Cardiff making a profit first before investing and many may be wary of investing in a small airport which would be a more risky proposition than investing in one like Bristol even with Welsh government involvement.
Interesting that Roger Lewis has mentioned Bristol having a loan facility of £250 million plus which as an airport is 4 times bigger than Cardiff which has one of £38 million itself.
For Cardiff itself to enact its Masterplan and build a new Terminal is going to take a significant amount of money which if it doesn't come from the private sector would have to come from the WG but after the M4 being shelved are they going to stump up £100 million plus required. Unless they can build a new Terminal for a lot less.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Carwyn Jones' original idea was for private sector involvement from the outset but they failed to find a partner and so the WG carried on as the sole owner. As Jarvo mentioned, the current WG thinking is to maintain a majority holding with any private sector partner, although when such a partner will be seriously sought again seems unclear. The best guess is that it would be when a new terminal is in clear focus.

Bristol was owned solely by the city council until 1997 and was in a worse position than CWL is now when it came to public sector investment. That airport was expanding in the late 80s and early 90s and desperately required a new terminal. The city council-owned airport company could not have afforded to borrow the necessary funding so, after a lot of heart searching amongst a number of Labour members of the city council, it was agreed to sell a majority holding into the private sector.

First Group bought 51% and that allowed the new terminal, new control tower and diversion of the A38 to permit Cat3 ILS to go ahead.

In 2001 the city council sold its 49% holding and at the same time First also sold its majority holding. The new owners were the Spanish Group Ferrovial (via a subsidiary called Cintra) and various funds of the Australian Macquarie Group. Since then there have been a number of further changes in ownership.

I have no idea who might be interested in becoming involved with CWL. A minority stake isn't necessarily something that the private sector would not contemplate; neither is the loss-making. It really depends on how a private sector partner viewed the airport's potential and the sort of deal the WG was offering.

 

[Jerry]

The Welsh Affairs committee has recommended that the UK government devolve APD to Wales by 2021. The UK government now has 2 month's to reply.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1138220547614097408

 

[Marko1]

Given the decision to cancel the M4 relief road last week by the welsh government on the grounds of costs and the impact on the environment I would find it highly contradictory to abolish apd on flights from Cardiff. Is it still in the post Carwyn Jones era still government intention to drop it or simply have the powers ?

 

[Jerry]

Given the decision to cancel the M4 relief road last week by the welsh government on the grounds of costs and the impact on the environment I would find it highly contradictory to abolish apd on flights from Cardiff. Is it still in the post Carwyn Jones era still government intention to drop it or simply have the powers ?

I think the M4 situation is quite different but whether they cut APD or not the Welsh government believes it should be their decision.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

No surprise that the Welsh Affairs Select Committee recommends that APD should be devolved. Listening to most of the evidence at the various sessions it seemed that, with a couple of exceptions, the MPs all of whom represent Welsh constituencies except Jack Lopresti were favourably disposed to the idea from the outset, and why not?

Whether the UK government alters his current stance on the subject remains to be seen. It could be argued that the same recommendations from a more widely represented group of MPs rather than members from Wales (except one) would carry more weight as they would at least outwardly carry a label of disinterest.

Even if the current First Minister is not as openly enthusiastic about Welsh aviation and Cardiff Airport as his predecessor I'd be very surprised if having campaigned so long and hard for the power to be devolved the WG did not use it.

 

[Jerry]

The UK governments response will be interesting but I half expect it to continue to refuse to devolve it.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

The UK governments response will be interesting but I half expect it to continue to refuse to devolve it.

Does Inverness have APD devolved Jerry?

 

[Jerry]

Does Inverness have APD devolved Jerry?

All the Highlands and islands airports are exempt from APD under EU law.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The UK governments response will be interesting but I half expect it to continue to refuse to devolve it.

A new Conservative government under a different leader might take a different view.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

All the Highlands and islands airports are exempt from APD under EU law.

Thanks - why is this? Because they rely on air links to link up communities?

 

[Jerry]

Thanks - why is this? Because they rely on air links to link up communities?

It's due to the population density and many of the communities being remote and relying on air links.

 

[Jerry]

A new Conservative government under a different leader might take a different view.

I think it will depend who it is. A more moderate one might be less resistant. A more Brexiteer one I can't see entertaining the idea of devolving more powers.

 

[geoff]

I see Dragonfly have another Be200, it is being operated by them for Comis Air Ltd of the Isle of Man, registration is G-NICB.