Cardiff: General Airport Discussion & Updates

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I would happily support the Welsh Government effectively subsiding Ryanair's entire base there with zero landing fees etc... Don't spend money on Doha and other nonsense long haul routes. Don't spend money revamping the terminal. The airlines do not care about that, nor do the passengers.

Make the airport free for airlines to use, and subsidise APD on flights as an incentive - knowing Bristol cannot compete - and rely on passenger footfall in shops (of which you can own the franchises to them in the terminal) to make money.

I support the airport. I do not support piss poor management and political aspiration.

Ryanair pioneered the ultra-low cost model with the importance of ancillary revenue. Cardiff Airport needs to remake the whole model of how airports are operated
This contradicts your entire narrative on pprune and above. Most of the things you've dragged up are historic failings of the airport. Most of which people wouldn't disagree with you on.
QR and BE were failed attempts at growth. But its confined to the history books.

But this latest post above highlights the things the airport is actually doing.
The forward look is diversification, cargo, Maintenance, private flying as well as commercial passenger growth, which is exactly what is happening. It may not be happening at the speed everyone wants, but only those dealing with it will know the barriers and obstacles in place slowing that progress. We can all sit here criticising CWL management without knowing the facts.

But your attacks on CWL, which lets call it out, is what they are, are attacks on historic failings not what is happening now.
 
"Welsh Government pissed £6.6m of our money up the wall..."

Considering it would not be our money if I was not Welsh, I thought that answered the question. Yes, I am Welsh and live in Cardiff. It is me being Welsh and seeing my tax money being pissed up the wall that leads me to being so critical. I want value for money

I didn't realise I was the one calling people goons and claiming they have opinions like arseholes and write piles of horse droppings, along with accusations of gobshiteness and major goonery. I am not sure this forum is free of bitterness. This forum is a massive echo chamber with no dissenting opinions
You are in the wrong place if you want to continue with that tone. I suggest you read the forum terms and conditions again before continuing.
 
Can I just draw a line under one aspect of this discussion first: the name calling and personal insults stop here. There are clearly strongly held views on both sides, but there is absolutely no reason why they cannot be debated without name calling, telling people to leave Wales or making it personal in either direction.

I also don’t think supporting Cardiff Airport means having to support every decision that has ever been made regarding it, or agreeing that the current strategy is necessarily the best one. Equally, it isn’t fair to blame the present management for decisions made by previous owners or management teams twenty years ago. Historic decisions are relevant where there are lessons to learn from them, but that should be the basis of the discussion.

Looking at this as a non-Welsh observer, I think the argument over what sort of routes Cardiff should be pursuing is actually quite an interesting one, and there is probably a bit of chicken and egg involved.

I completely understand the argument for routes such as Qatar previously and WestJet to Toronto now. A direct North American route gives Wales visibility, inbound tourism opportunities and business connectivity, while a hub route such as Doha offered connections far beyond Doha itself. Those benefits aren’t necessarily captured simply by counting passengers through the terminal.

But there is another perfectly legitimate way of looking at it; WestJet is 4x weekly to YYZ with a 174-seat B38M. That’s a useful and potentially strategically important route, but in terms of sheer passenger volume it is relatively small. If similar effort or commercial support could persuade Ryanair to base an aircraft at Cardiff, add several routes and increase frequencies, that could potentially put far more passengers through the airport each year.

Yes, many of those passengers would be Welsh residents travelling outbound rather than tourists arriving in Wales. But that doesn’t make them economically irrelevant. Many are currently driving across the border and spending their airport money at BRS. Bringing some of that traffic back through Cardiff means more parking, retail, food and beverage and aeronautical revenue, while a larger underlying passenger base should also make the airport more commercially sustainable and attractive to other airlines.

Of course there is a counterargument: Ryanair would expect very competitive terms, higher passenger numbers don’t automatically mean a better financial return, and outbound leisure traffic does not bring the same wider economic benefits as inbound tourism or business travel. So I don’t think this is as simple as “Ryanair good, long haul bad” or vice versa.

Perhaps the strongest strategy is a mixture: use low-cost carriers to build volume and the local passenger base, while selectively pursuing routes which offer something strategically different — major hubs, inbound tourism markets and important business links — alongside cargo, MRO and the other activities Cardiff is developing.

What I don’t think helps is treating any questioning of the strategy as being anti-Cardiff Airport. You can want the airport to succeed while still asking whether public money could sometimes produce a greater return if spent differently. Equally, critics should acknowledge when something is working and recognise that not every historic mistake can be laid at the door of today’s management.

That seems a much more worthwhile discussion than deciding who is or isn’t sufficiently supportive of Cardiff Airport.
 
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The entire thinking behind routes such as WestJet and Qatar is fundamentally flawed. Cardiff Airport and the Welsh Government seem to treat long-haul connectivity as the holy grail of aviation and economic investment on the assumption that simply having direct links to North America, the Middle East and Asia will somehow magically generate investment and high-value tourism. There is no evidence to support that perverse assumption.

Take WestJet. Anecdotally, there appears to be very little North American inbound demand on these flights. The service will not generate any meaningful level of investment into Wales, nor significant numbers of wealthy North American tourists coming to Wales as their primary destination.

For international visitors, Wales is realistically part of a wider UK trip than a destination in itself. A tourist from Canada or the United States is far more likely to fly into London, spend time there and perhaps visit Wales for a few days alongside other destinations. If the objective is to increase inbound tourism, aggressively marketing Wales to the millions of international passengers already arriving through Heathrow would deliver a better return than subsidising a niche flight into Cardiff.

In practice, the WestJet service is less of an inbound economic-development tool and more of a subsidised holiday route for the middle class.

The Qatar argument is similar. A Doha connection sounds impressive on a route map, but prestige is not the same thing as economic impact. If most passengers are Welsh residents connecting through Doha to destinations in Asia, Australia or elsewhere, then public support is effectively helping middle-class Welsh consumers travel abroad more conveniently. That may be nice for those passengers, but it is difficult to argue that it fundamentally strengthens the Welsh economy.

This becomes even more obvious when you consider the most common explanation given for Cardiff Airport's historic weakness: its poor catchment area.

If Cardiff really does suffer from a weak catchment, then the question should be why that catchment is weak. A major part of the answer is that Wales simply does not have enough highly paid jobs nor enough people with the relevant skills to sustain high paying jobs.

There are pockets of highly paid employment: senior roles at Admiral, doctors and other medical professionals, lawyers, engineers, specialist manufacturing roles and a small number of people working in niche positions. But these jobs are not present at anything like the scale seen in stronger regions of the UK. Wales suffers from a lack of economic opportunity. Many ambitious young people leave for England because the range of graduate careers, professional jobs and progression opportunities is substantially greater. At the same time, much of the inward investment celebrated in Wales consists of low-paid employment such as call centres and back-office functions. That creates jobs, which is obviously better than creating nothing, but it does very little to transform Wales and grow wealth in the country.

That is why the airport strategy should work in the opposite direction. Rather than asking how the existing Welsh economy can support a prestige long-haul network, the airport should be treated as part of the infrastructure needed to build a stronger Welsh economy in the first place.

Aviation is in the top five highest paying industries. It supports a wide range of very well-paid employment: pilots, engineers, air traffic controllers, operations staff, airline management, maintenance, logistics, ground handling and numerous technical and professional roles. If Cardiff Airport became significantly busier, demand for those jobs would increase around the airport and across South Wales. Cardiff Airport, and companies closely linked to the airport, would become major employers in Wales, directly increasing the wealth of South Wales (you also then have greater tax revenues which helps support everyone else too).

To achieve that, the immediate priority should be passenger volume rather than glamour. Cardiff should be an exceptionally cheap and commercially attractive airport for airlines to operate from. Reduce the cost of operating there to practically nothing, encourage carriers to base aircraft there, and concentrate on building a dense network of routes that people will actually use in large numbers.

The airport can then make money from the activity those passengers generate: parking, retail, food and drink, advertising, premium services and other ancillary income. A full 737 or A320 to Alicante, Dublin or Amsterdam may look far less exciting in a government press release than a trip to Doha or Canada, but ten high-frequency short-haul routes carrying 180 passengers will do far more for the airport's viability, employment base and wider economic ecosystem than Qatar.

The objective should therefore be simple: build scale first.

More passengers create more flights. More flights justify aircraft being based at Cardiff. Based aircraft create permanent operational and technical jobs. A larger aviation sector then creates skills, supply chains and economic activity around it. That is a much more credible route to using Cardiff Airport as an economic-development tool than chasing prestigious long-haul routes and hoping that investment and wealthy tourists somehow follow.

This contradicts your entire narrative on pprune and above. Most of the things you've dragged up are historic failings of the airport. Most of which people wouldn't disagree with you on.
QR and BE were failed attempts at growth. But its confined to the history books.

But your attacks on CWL, which lets call it out, is what they are, are attacks on historic failings not what is happening now.

The past failings are very relevant because the ethos has not changed. Management, past and present, is obsessed with chasing long haul routes over footfall that makes money and creates jobs. Three of the top 10 busiest UK airports do not have long haul connections. Long haul is not the solution. It's not even part of it.

Cardiff Airport needs to focus on passenger footfall and numbers. The current management do not seem to be aiming to do this, just like the past management did not. The argument about the catchment area not sustaining an airport doesn't work because people travel miles for cheap flights. They do not care about where the airport is. Cardiff Airport can undercut Bristol all it likes. There is nothing Bristol can do about it. We all know Ryanair will moves flights to Cardiff for a bargain and the passengers will still use them.
 
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Take WestJet. Anecdotally, there appears to be very little North American inbound demand on these flights. The service will not generate any meaningful level of investment into Wales, nor significant numbers of wealthy North American tourists coming to Wales as their primary destination.
Based on evidence you've seen and can share with us or just personal opinion?
Ive seen several Canadian articles about the route and the target of Canadian Tourists to Wales.


the airport should be treated as part of the infrastructure needed to build a stronger Welsh economy in the first place
Isn't that the exact argument used against the 'close it, its a white elephant brigade!'?


Cardiff Airport needs to focus on passenger footfall and numbers. The current management do not seem to be aiming to do this, just like the past management did not.
How do you know they arent? There's been several press releases and Airport plans in recent years about targeting low cost, sun routes and certain cities. You seem so blinkered by your contradictory opinion that you're ignoring the information thats out there for you to see.
Ryanair are growing year on year, albeit slowly. How do you know CWL aren't doing everything they can to get them in, but FR aren't biting (yet)?
 
Perhaps the strongest strategy is a mixture: use low-cost carriers to build volume and the local passenger base, while selectively pursuing routes which offer something strategically different — major hubs, inbound tourism markets and important business links — alongside cargo, MRO and the other activities Cardiff is developing.
Well in a way that is what the airport management are trying to do.
TUI and Ryanair are growing the passenger numbers, WestJet helps grow the inbound tourism and the focus on Cargo etc helps diversify the operation.
The growth though has to be sustainable. The airport has been burnt before, Flybe and Wizz are the examples there and it'll want sustainable partners that are invested in Cardiff and building that will take time.

Take WestJet. Anecdotally, there appears to be very little North American inbound demand on these flights.
That was simply not true on my flight. I took the flight on Thursday and half the passengers were Canadian. I don't know where you'd get evidence to make a claim like that. The target market is tourism both ways but WestJet are a Canadian airline so will focus on Canadian passengers.
 
It's a shame that the current debate has turned so toxic - whilst there are valid reasons for most of the views expressed, how they are expressed is also important, and some of the personal vitriol and language is not appropriate.

What the current debate also seems to have lost sight of is that it is not in any airport's gift to pick and choose what airline operators and routes they have. An airport could have the best, most convincing sales team in the world, but if their airport or its suggested routes doesn't fit the target airline's commercial and operational evaluation criteria, whether to start operations or for route or frequency growth, then the airline will almost certainly not take the risk.

For sure, CWL has made some very bad decisions in the past - but to dismiss long-haul routes as a viable growth option is missing the point. Yes, 4 737 rotations a week isn't going to dramatically change the airports' passenger figures, but inbound tourism expenditure is worth large sums of money to the country and its hospitality sector - the number of Canadians 'splashing the cash' in Cardiff Bay over the last few months gives just a very small example of this effect.

The sale of the airport to Abertis and the impact of Covid - along with the aforementioned bad decisions - have left CWL in a poor position. However, in a time when the airport is starting to recover, if people genuinely have the airport's best interests at heart, then some support, encouragement - and informed, polite debate - is far more beneficial than spiteful rhetoric.
 
If Cardiff really does suffer from a weak catchment, then the question should be why that catchment is weak. A major part of the answer is that Wales simply does not have enough highly paid jobs nor enough people with the relevant skills to sustain high paying jobs.
Weak catchment is due to geography. There is sea to the South, hills to the North with weak transport links to mid-Wales (easier to reach BHX), BRS catchment to the East, and to the West there is a fairly low population area (at least when you go beyond Llanelli) and eventually more sea.

Realistically there is a ceiling with regard to annual passenger numbers, which I would put at around 3-4 million.
 
Weak catchment is due to geography. There is sea to the South, hills to the North with weak transport links to mid-Wales (easier to reach BHX), BRS catchment to the East, and to the West there is a fairly low population area (at least when you go beyond Llanelli) and eventually more sea.

Realistically there is a ceiling with regard to annual passenger numbers, which I would put at around 3-4 million.
The weak catchment area is irrelevant for how many passengers it can handle. It is an excuse for justifying a lack of routes and passengers. The reality is consumers buying flights are incredibly price elastic (Nijkamp 2002), (Teslenko-Kucherenko 2019), (Schneider 2025) - a lot of research confirms that. I.e. a relatively small change in price has a huge impact on demand. And in our anecdotal ways, we also know it's true given we happily go to Bristol, Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham etc... if the price is cheaper. And even if you don't, lots of people do.

If Cardiff Airport makes it self much cheaper to fly from than it's competitors, consumers will use the airport because they are sensitive to price changes. Cardiff Airport is state backed. It's focus should be massively undercutting rivals and trusting the airlines and consumers will comes - they will.

The catchment area being poorer is not a huge barrier.
 
For sure, CWL has made some very bad decisions in the past - but to dismiss long-haul routes as a viable growth option is missing the point.
I would also add it's potential good pr for the airport as well that helps raise awareness of the airport itself. The press and influencers etc get much more involved when it's something like a long-haul route or a prestigious airline like say Air France than if TUI or Ryanair add Alicante.
 
The weak catchment area is irrelevant for how many passengers it can handle. It is an excuse for justifying a lack of routes and passengers. The reality is consumers buying flights are incredibly price elastic (Nijkamp 2002), (Teslenko-Kucherenko 2019), (Schneider 2025) - a lot of research confirms that. I.e. a relatively small change in price has a huge impact on demand. And in our anecdotal ways, we also know it's true given we happily go to Bristol, Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham etc... if the price is cheaper. And even if you don't, lots of people do.

If Cardiff Airport makes it self much cheaper to fly from than it's competitors, consumers will use the airport because they are sensitive to price changes. Cardiff Airport is state backed. It's focus should be massively undercutting rivals and trusting the airlines and consumers will comes - they will.

The catchment area being poorer is not a huge barrier.
BS, BS, & BS.

"(Nijkamp 2002), (Teslenko-Kucherenko 2019), (Schneider 2025)"
You know full well I haven't got access to these papers. For all I know, they could be making assumptions that are out of date, fundamentally flawed, based on "creative accounting" / irrelevant data (e.g. data gathered from a different country or even continent), and/or motivated by some other agenda.

"The weak catchment area is irrelevant for how many passengers it can handle."
It was you that brought it up.

".... a relatively small change in price has a huge impact on demand. And in our anecdotal ways, we also know it's true given we happily go to Bristol, Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham etc... if the price is cheaper."
A relatively small change in price would be eaten up by the extra costs of getting there plus possible overnight stay. In any case, there are quite a few people who would rather avoid being knackered before they've even got on the plane.

"It's focus should be massively undercutting rivals"
I think the Competition Commission might have a thing or two to say about a government-owned airport doing that.
Besides, I thought you wanted the Welsh government to spend more money on improving hospitals?
 
We’ve heard the arguments regarding long-haul strategy vs. short-haul volume extensively now. Let's move the discussion forward onto new developments or data rather than retreading the same ground. Posts repeating previous points will be removed to keep the thread readable.

Thanks,


Moderation Team
 
Bristol Airport has taken its ongoing legal battle against the Welsh Government one step further by requesting permission to lodge its case against the recent Competition Appeal Tribunal judgment directly at the Court of Appeal.

All eyes now move to the Court of Appeal and the outcome of its permission decision which is expected to be made within 4 to 8 weeks of receiving the application.
Any update on this? Have the Court of Appeal decided whether or not to allow BRS to submit a further appeal?
 

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