Edinburgh Airport - General Thread

[Jerry]

It's odd that different governments take varying views on the subject. Westminster seems set against any significant cut or abolition. The SNP in Scotland is pro reduction of the tax and abolition if it could afford to. The Welsh Government says it would abolish the tax if given the power although at times it seems they are talking about long haul APD. I don't know whether they could afford to abolish all APD.

Of course, abolishing or substantially reducing APD might not necessarily lead to lower fares. Airlines might simply maintain fare levels and pocket the APD element in order to improve yields or in some cases attract other airlines and/or routes.

I think it's because of the different outlook of each government. The UK government earns billions of pounds off it for the treasury and in their eyes if you look at the 4 biggest airports, Heathrow has airlines queing up to operate out of it, Gatwick has no problems attracting new airlines and both Stansted and Manchester are the same and keep growing so they probably don't see the need to cut/abolish and i don't they care much about encouraging airlines to the smaller airports.

The Scottish government is probably in the middle. It's 2 big airports are generally doing well but they would want to be able to attract new especially long haul and European routes to help the economy grow and create more jobs through increased tourism and better business connections but as their airports do earn a lot of APD as it is cutting it completely would hurt them financially so hence the 50%.

For the Welsh government it would be a development tool to encourage existing airlines like Flybe and Ryanair to operate new routes and expand their operations and and to have something to go to new airlines to offer as an incentive especially for long haul. Considering CWL is a small airport the loss for the Welsh government wouldn't be as much as the Scottish or UK.

I find it interesting that in these APD debates the Republic of Ireland never gets mentioned. They have a low APD and i'm sure it helps both Aer Lingus and Ryanair be competitive in the Irish market and Aer Lingus in the trans atlantic market and encourages new airlines like Hainan.

As for the airlines i doubt very much they would pass the reductions onto the customer but it would enable them to make more money and incentivise them to grow at airports with low APD.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

For the Welsh government it would be a development tool to encourage existing airlines like Flybe and Ryanair to operate new routes and expand their operations and and to have something to go to new airlines to offer as an incentive especially for long haul. Considering CWL is a small airport the loss for the Welsh government wouldn't be as much as the Scottish or UK.

Some people have pointed out that if Wales did gain APD powers and abolished the tax it would be able to do so partly because of the Westminster block grant that is funded by all UK tax payers, with the Westminster Treasury's coffers enjoying an APD take. This would mean that airlines at small English airports such as Exeter would be generating APD tax that would help the Welsh Government abolish APD in its country, so indirectly EXT would be subsidising CWL. The same principle would apply with the Scottish and Northern Ireland governments' grants from Westminster.

It does seem manifestly unfair that airports in Scotland and Wales, and thus their economies, would be able to enjoy the benefits of lower or no APD because they have devolved governments whereas airports in England, the largest constituent country in the UK by a huge margin and thus the largest generator of taxes in the UK, would not see similar benefits.

I find it interesting that in these APD debates the Republic of Ireland never gets mentioned. They have a low APD and i'm sure it helps both Aer Lingus and Ryanair be competitive in the Irish market and Aer Lingus in the trans atlantic market and encourages new airlines like Hainan.

As for the airlines i doubt very much they would pass the reductions onto the customer but it would enable them to make more money and incentivise them to grow at airports with low APD.

The Republic of Ireland did have an Air Travel Tax at one point. It was introduced in 2009 at 10 euros per passenger for flights over 300km from Dublin and 3 euros for shorter flights. The EU didn't like that so two years later a blanket 3 euros per passenger was introduced. Following sustained pressure from the tourism industry and airlines the tax was abolished in 2014.

I remember Ryanair making its anti-aviation tax point by saying it would be putting in more aircraft and flights in the ROI when the tax removal was announced.

DUB has grown markedly since 2009 when it was handling 20.503 mppa which has risen to 29.582 mppa in 2017. How much this is due to the removal of the tax (a small tax at that when compared with the UK's long haul rate) I don't know. What is obvious is that the abolition has done little for the smaller airports. In 2006 Shannon was handling 3.639 mppa but this had dropped to 1.751 mppa in 2017. Cork saw 3.258 mppa in 2008 but only 2.308 mppa in 2017. So there is little to suggest that the removal of the tax has helped those airports.

 

[Jerry]

Some people have pointed out that if Wales did gain APD powers and abolished the tax it would be able to do so partly because of the Westminster block grant that is funded by all UK tax payers, with the Westminster Treasury's coffers enjoying an APD take. This would mean that airlines at small English airports such as Exeter would be generating APD tax that would help the Welsh Government abolish APD in its country, so indirectly EXT would be subsidising CWL. The same principle would apply with the Scottish and Northern Ireland governments' grants from Westminster.

As far as i know any APD would taken off the block grants thereby countering it and as well i'm sure the Welsh government would just say it's claiming back money through passengers that are leaving Wales and going to use English airports and taking their money out of the Welsh economy because Wales doesn't have all the tools available to attract airlines to Wales and get those passengers flying from Wales and contributing to the Welsh economy. The Welsh and Scottish governments priorities are to Welsh and Scottish airports and seeing them thrive and not English airports and seeing their citizens bolstering their numbers and profits.

In the end it comes down to self determination and the system we have. Wales and Scotland are countries in their own right and yes they are part of the UK but they do have their own national identities and naturally want the full tools available to develop their airports to attract inbound tourism and business directly to Wales and air links do that and having the ability to set APD rates will help with that and to be blunt the Welsh and Scottish governments priorities are to Welsh and Scottish airports and seeing them thrive and not English airports and seeing their citizens bolstering their numbers and profits to varying degrees.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Valid points all.

There can be strong arguments on both sides of the issue. A political decision will be the reason for Wales getting APD devolution as currently a political decision means they don't.

Getting back to EDI, it does seem that Norwegian began those routes on the basis that they would only likely to be viable with taxation assistance. That suggests that passengers would not have benefited in the sense of lower fares, but only through having a route from their local airport. Norwegain must have have known, if they didn't they ought to have done, that the airport has no influence on government action so to an extent the airline was taking a bit of a flyer.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Valid points all.

There can be strong arguments on both sides of the issue. A political decision will be the reason for Wales getting APD devolution as currently a political decision means they don't.

Getting back to EDI, it does seem that Norwegian began those routes on the basis that they would only likely to be viable with taxation assistance. That suggests that passengers would not have benefited in the sense of lower fares, but only through having a route from their local airport. Norwegain must have have known, if they didn't they ought to have done, that the airport has no influence on government action so to an extent the airline was taking a bit of a flyer.

 

[Jerry]

It does seem Norwegian relied on the reduction of APD too much for some of the routes. I also wonder if they choose the right airport and may have been better off at Glasgow with less competition and with Ryanair pulling out a chance of operating short haul as well.

 

[Eoin]

Some people have pointed out that if Wales did gain APD powers and abolished the tax it would be able to do so partly because of the Westminster block grant that is funded by all UK tax payers, with the Westminster Treasury's coffers enjoying an APD take. This would mean that airlines at small English airports such as Exeter would be generating APD tax that would help the Welsh Government abolish APD in its country, so indirectly EXT would be subsidising CWL. The same principle would apply with the Scottish and Northern Ireland governments' grants from Westminster.

It does seem manifestly unfair that airports in Scotland and Wales, and thus their economies, would be able to enjoy the benefits of lower or no APD because they have devolved governments whereas airports in England, the largest constituent country in the UK by a huge margin and thus the largest generator of taxes in the UK, would not see similar benefits.



The Republic of Ireland did have an Air Travel Tax at one point. It was introduced in 2009 at 10 euros per passenger for flights over 300km from Dublin and 3 euros for shorter flights. The EU didn't like that so two years later a blanket 3 euros per passenger was introduced. Following sustained pressure from the tourism industry and airlines the tax was abolished in 2014.

I remember Ryanair making its anti-aviation tax point by saying it would be putting in more aircraft and flights in the ROI when the tax removal was announced.

DUB has grown markedly since 2009 when it was handling 20.503 mppa which has risen to 29.582 mppa in 2017. How much this is due to the removal of the tax (a small tax at that when compared with the UK's long haul rate) I don't know. What is obvious is that the abolition has done little for the smaller airports. In 2006 Shannon was handling 3.639 mppa but this had dropped to 1.751 mppa in 2017. Cork saw 3.258 mppa in 2008 but only 2.308 mppa in 2017. So there is little to suggest that the removal of the tax has helped those airports.

The removal of tax had nothing to do with the demise of SNN or ORK pax. the Dublin Airport Authority operated DUB, ORK, SNN up until 2013 when SNN split from the DAA. They were running SNN into the ground and tried to close it on many occasions. The Irish govt have no aviation policy in place to try facilitate growth at airports outside of Dublin. Its a politics game, nothing to do with tax

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Welcome to F4A and many thanks for your post. So even a reduction in the tax was not enough to persuade airlines such as Ryanair (a great champion of countries that reduce aviation tax) to expand at these airports because of the internal politics. Interesting.

 

[Eoin]

Welcome to F4A and many thanks for your post. So even a reduction in the tax was not enough to persuade airlines such as Ryanair (a great champion of countries that reduce aviation tax) to expand at these airports because of the internal politics. Interesting.

No thats not what im saying, Im saying the reason these airports havent went back to the celtic tiger passenger numbers is because of the DAA and their control over Cork and Shannon (even though SNN is now an independent entity). They try and scupper any new service into shannon and limit what cork gets. The irish government are dublin centric and will not do anything about it. The abolition of the tax has influenced new services although most are from Dublin

 

[Jerry]

A tram has derailed not far from Edinburgh Airport after being hit by a bus.
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....irport-after-hitting-bus-1-4754160?sdehjehgfe

 

[Jerry]

The first of 3 new airbridges is being installed today as part of Edinburgh airports terminal expansion.
https://twitter.com/EDI_Airport/status/1009766892532371456

 

[Jerry]

Just finished planespotting and lots of footage! Edinburgh definitely has lots of variety of airlines for a spotter! I'd definitely recommend it! Now time to relax before my flight to Bristol with Easyjet! I'll upload photos and videos as soon as i can!

 

[Brum X]

Just finished planespotting and lots of footage! Edinburgh definitely has lots of variety of airlines for a spotter! I'd definitely recommend it! Now time to relax before my flight to Bristol with Easyjet! I'll upload photos and videos as soon as i can!

I cant wait Jez

 

[Jerry]

I cant wait Jez

Thanks!

 

[Jerry]

It looks like the Scottish government is scrapping its plans to cut APD.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48191110

 

[Jerry]

Coronavirus update | Edinburgh Airport

Airport puts consolidation plan into operation.

www.edinburghairport.com

 

[Jerry]

Airport to build solar farm next to runway - BBC News

Edinburgh Airport says the solar panels will provide 26% of its energy needs from next year.

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[CM.]

Cant find an Iberia Edinburgh thread so I’ll post here:

The Madrid-Edinburgh route looks to be cut from August 8th 2021 as there’s no flights bookable beyond that date. Thanks to SPD travels for noticing.

 

[CM.]

A rare appearance for Edinburgh. Kuwait Airways will operate a student charter flight on the 10th September using the rare A330-800Neo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433159522047115265

 

[Viscount]

Lot of military activity at EDI in the last few day AF1 plus one other 757 belonging to the US arrived yesterday
Biden been staying at the Dalmahoy hotel, and a UK puma military helicopters have been buzzing around for 2days
I believe they are due to leave today. So hopefully it will be a bit quieter tonight.