Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Tarn Spotter]

My Oh works most nights finding places to sleep for the homeless in the area.
I am honorary treasurer of a housing association whilst funding obviously our major worry, housing stock or the lack off also at the top of our concerns. We have a shortage of 10k foster carers, we cant find suitable accomodation for those willing to take on the role.
Plans in the pipeline at the moment wont make any impact in to the shortage, if you covered Horsforth golf club in housing its a drop in the ocean.
A financial case for plan B just as a road to open up residential land can be made, this means the costing in airport terms reduces. land for homes is needed, there is not many plots with easy access now available. When you look at flooding risks houses in the area of Plan B are in an ideal position, compared to the calder valley and Kirstall valley, other areas in my remit.
I hope whatever decision, hope it will not be controlled by NIMBY's but related to the long term airport needs, local transport needs, opening up potential residential/commercial building land, not just getting the car to the airport.
There is enough resistance to airport growth, if we have to add in objectors to serious housebuilding, we are not going to make any progress.

 

[Aviador]

I hear you Tarn Spotter.

This isn't a case of not in my back yard, not at all.

We live in an era when we have a duty to protect what is left of our natural environment and we will sometimes have to say no to developing such areas of the countryside for houses. Once they are gone they are gone for good.

There are enough brown field sites in Leeds to facilitate a decent amount of new houses without building on green land. In the city centre we should be promoting city living and providing the means to live in the city such as city schools and doctors surgeries. This would also reduce the need for car ownership or at least car usage.

At the moment the majority if not all city centre apartments only have one or two bedrooms with little or no access to local schools. There are no doctors unless of course you do what so many are doing now and just turn up at A&E and expect to be seen. We should be looking to New York and emulating how city life goes on there rather than building "rabbit hutches" on fields.

I think, a further point I'd like to mention is the entire North of Leeds has extremely poor access to the city centres of Leeds & Bradford and the motorway network. Even if I supported house building in places like Rawdon Billing (which I don't), I wouldn't want it to happen before the proposed Leeds Orbital Road continued to the M62/M606 to the West and there are currently no plans at all to do this.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Its the lack of one bedroom properties that is the huge issue at the moment. Young people whos parents dont want them to remain at home and the breakdown of relationships leaving one partner without a home, and older couples both deciding living on their own a better bet, has put pressure on this sector of the market. Trying to find this type of property in both the private and public sector impossible.
Brown sites in my area of knowledge are often plagued by land contamination issues that would frighten me in giving planning approval. Some of the bore sample soil reports I have seen, give me serious concerns, even when permission granted.
Truthfully I dont give a fig about the environment, whilst we have so many homeless people and children without a proper family environment.
My heart cant give any credence to enviromental issues, when I have to sit in meeting after meeting hearing the plight of our homeless. These are humans not a green field. I want houses for my grandchildren and their children, knowing what a struggle it has been for my own children to buy a home in the area.
latest prodictionsI have seen says our population will grow by 12 millions in the next decade, against germany where theirs will decrease by 10 million, even allowing for them bringing in millions of immigrants, we cant keep pace with this population growth.

 

[Seasider]

I am with you Aviador !
I do not want a housing estate to be built between my house and the threshold of runway 14 at the side of Yeadon Tarn. The reason I downsized was to have the view the empty field gives me, If they build I will sell up and emigrate to Australia.

That's a bit drastic

Which part, sharing my view or emigrating to Australia

Both!!

 

[Aviador]

The BBCLookNorth Tweeted:

@BBCLookNorth hidden agenda is right, cash for junction to roundabout "given by developers" - LCC. deal done then..?

They haven't indicated whether this is a roundabout junction near to the new business village indicating option A or whether this is a development along the option B route which would be used for houses.

 

[lbaspotter]

The WYCA (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) latest transport committee agenda heard updates regards further studies on the airport link road and public transport access to the airport by Bus & Rail.

http://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/WorkA...?id=4294969564

Leeds Bradford Airport Public Transport Access

2.13 - WYCA appointed consultants to undertake a further study of public transport access options to Leeds Bradford Airport. Leeds and Bradford were represented in the officer steering group, and an informal Member group oversaw the work.

2.14 The objectives of the study were to:

• Update the evidence base to overcome short-comings in economic input to the Department for Transport study by incorporating the latest airport land-use changes proposed by the Masterplan, local housing and commercial development and forecast passenger demand;

• Establish the outline design feasibility of a heavy rail, light rail or tram train link from the Harrogate Line and the feasibility of an onward rail link to Guiseley in order to ensure that any potential rail alignment is not compromised by the
proposed highway (Link Road) alignment; and

• Consider whether other connectivity options (including new stations, heavy rail, light rail, tram-train) should be investigated further

2.15 These draft conclusions are summarised as below :

Demand assessment – The level of demand for public transport to LBA on the basis of the airport masterplan and a proposed park and ride hub would increase from approximately 700,000 trips per annum currently to 2.2million in 2030.
This level of demand is in the capacity range of a high frequency bus or a heavy /light rail service (dependent on business case), dependent on the profile of demand.

Attractiveness of journey options – A fixed and direct rail service link provides the most attractive solution in terms of journey times. Any new Parkway station proposal(s) would be less attractive due to the need to interchange.

Topography – All the potential fixed link alignments considered in this study significantly exceed the typical maximum gradient that heavy rail can operate over a sustained distance. The majority of the route options on the eastern side of the
airport (towards Horsforth) are at the highest gradient of any light rail system in the UK. The routes on the western side of the airport (towards Bradford) involve gradient profiles which are in excess of any current UK light rail system over a significant section.

Technology options – The report suggests that viable solutions would be focused on bus based technology on the western side of the airport and Tram-Train (which, subject to the Sheffield trial, could share tracks with conventional heavy rail vehicles) on the eastern side of the airport in the long term. A new Parkway station option located north of Horsforth station was also deemed to merit further investigation.

Cost - Tram Train and light rail systems would require significant capital investment (£70m to £360m). The cost of the bus based solution would be considerably less.

Implications for the proposed link road - There is a possibility that bus based options could be incorporated in the link road proposal. There is also opportunity to build in measures to ensure the link road scheme is future proofed should light rail /Tram Train be pursued in the future. This, however, may have cost implications (potentially on both road and rail schemes).

2.16 In line with the findings of the previously commissioned DfT study, the work confirmed that the Link Road scheme and any potential fixed link project would have different delivery timescales and would each serve distinct travel markets. The work supports the view that it is not a case of delivering one or the other, but that the case could be made for requiring both schemes.

2.17 It would therefore appear that a heavy rail link will be unachievable on a direct surface alignment (which exceeds permissible gradient) and longer alignments would involve extensive tunnelling and cuttings which would incur significant additional costs and compromise the business case.

2.18 The most viable option for a fixed link would therefore appear to involve light rail or Tram Train technology. However, the topography towards Bradford is extremely challenging and would require extensive tunnelling and associated significant cost. There is an alternative scenario of a Tram-Train option from the Harrogate line to be extended to Bradford using the existing Airedale rail line.

2.19 There is currently no funding identified for a fixed public transport link. Further work would be required to develop the investment business case for a preferred option. There may be State Aid implications to consider.

 

[airforced]

Thanks for posting that lbaspotter. After reading it a couple of times it looks to me that the project is seen as fraught with problems and a lack of funding. Therefore nothing happening soon then.

Is that a reasonable synopsis do you think?

 

[Bigman]

Of course nothing will happen!! This is LBA we are talking about. HS2 will be built first!!

 

[cmj]

Quickest way to LBA will be HS2 to London then the BA shuttle...

 

[White Heather]

Well at least that report is saying what we have been saying for years at the Consultative Committee. That we need the link road AND a rail link in the future and that the gradients for heavy rail are too steep. Absolutely obvious really. It would have to be a tram train. The comment about the link road impacting on the tram train suggests that it will be Option A that is delivered as the link road. The parkway station on the Harrogate Line is a useful interim option pending a tram train to the airport itself - and could be linked easily to the Option A link road. The most positive aspect though is that the volume of travel to LBA is set to triple by 2030 based on the Masterplan proposals. We shall see.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Maybe the committee could do with a busmans holiday and a trip to Santander and a visit to the Bulnes Funicular, this has an incline of 45 degrees.
Well worth a visit if your in the area.
Were there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Bigman]

Anyway, on a more positive note, I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that some Labour Party bods were hanging around outside Yeadon Morrisions on Saturday afternoon with a table with boxes and plastic balls (red of course!!).

The idea was to put a ball in the bucket which you thought was the most important issue, so naturally I put one in the bucket marked ‘Airport Link Road’.

When asked why, I pretty much bored the poor lad to death with all the technical stuff and arguments that we have done to death on this thread, in a similar vain to when Aviador and myself went to the Greenacre Hall drop in session last year.

Anyway, I left this poor lad in no uncertain terms that I believed that they should be doing the road link AND a parkway station. At least by doing that, they are not just portraying the scheme as a parkway station for the airport, but also a valuable park-and-ride facility to take the strain off the local roads (I pointed out how busy the High Street was even at 15:00 on a Saturday afternoon which was obvious to see). I also pointed out that under the new Northern Trains franchise, there will be 4 trains an hour operating between Leeds and Harrogate by 2019, which would increase station usage even more.

Anyway, I did my bit for the cause!!!

 

[Aviador]

The sad thing is the most likely option will be no link road and no rail option with HS2 built first as you said in your previous post.

Laughable but likely to be true the way politics go in our region.

 

[Aviador]

The consultation period for the airport link road ends today. I doubt we'll hear much else until later on in the summer.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

If we hear something later this year, an actual decision could be a lifetime away.

 

[Pat]

Just hope it doesn't take as long as the Lincoln Bypass. They have been talking about it for 50 years and we are only a quarter of the way round :sad:

 

[Aviador]

Or the Ilkley bypass ^^^^^.

This article was featured on ITV news today about access to regional airports.

Government criticised over lack of airport access planning

 

[Tarn Spotter]

2200 people taking part in the review of the new road is very few. With over 1m in the Leeds and aireborough area, just .0022 of the population
Not sure if this report has been put up before http://www.leeds.gov.uk/SiteAllocationM ... orough.pdf
For me plan B would help the road requirements of the 102 units to be built on Victoria avenue

 

[White Heather]

I will be very surprised, given that the funding for this road has been ringfenced, if its construction is delayed. They have said it will be built by 2022. Even that is too long. The objections always surface - no doubt they are just the same with regard to the East Leeds Relief Road they are planning too. If they stopped every project due to objections, nothing would ever happen. In the past, they have done - which is why Leeds is miles behind the likes of Manchester when it comes to transport and aviation.

 

[cmj]

Isn't the East Leeds Relief Road just another way to open up land for development without actually solving the transport problem? It just dumps traffic on the existing ring road, where it will just snarl up along with everything else. This is the problem with Leeds - lots of schemes to allow more development, but no joined up thinking or serious infrastructure improvements to actually support the increased demand.

So like the airport link, I actually think it will actually just make a bad situation worse.