Road, Rail & Access Issues

[jason1-11]

Let's hope the £170m is index linked as will be worth a lot less by the time it is actually spent (if at all).

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Just come across an article in the Railway Magazine. It is about Luton Airport where the airport owner has announced a round the clock light rail system from Luton Airport Parkway Station.. What it is relevant to Leeds is the third paragraph. I quote 'The geography of the area, with the airport located on a hill above the railway, makes a heavy rail line and the prospect of through trains to St Pancras too expensive and difficult to build.' This type of light rail system should be possible at Leeds, if a Park Way Station is built.

There is also the small matter of the 8mppa or so disparity between Leeds and Luton. It is much easier to justify spending those amounts of money on such a link when 12mppa are passing through the airport, particularly as Luton will already have a far greater public transport modal share. The demographics of LBA's clientele does not lend itself well to public transport provision, hence so many people using a car. It is a case of having to spend the money in the hope that it can change that habit rather than spending money to satisfy demand.

 

[Bigman]

They are reporting on Look North this morning that there is another indefinite delay with the South Yorkshire tram-trains. So it's not just Leeds having issues, but more importantly would no doubt impact on any attempt to do something similar in Leeds.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

The sad thing about the tram train project is that the delays have come as a direct result of the bad management of the project rather than the complexity surrounding the trial itself. Without saying it directly, SYPTE and the Barnsley and Rotherham chamber of commerce have made it clear that they are unhappy with the job that has been done and I expect it to be another nail in the coffin of Network Rail.

This poor management has not just affected tram train but all projects currently linked with Network Rail. Compare it to delays to the GWR electrification project, for example, which will mean that trains will be built and ready with no infrastructure on which to run. When you consider that these timescales included the tendering process, hiring of staff, BUILDING A NEW DEPOT AND ASSEMBLY PLANT and shipping new stock to the UK, it makes the Network Fail project look marvellously badly run. Particularly when you then take into consideration that the electrification process was already underway as part of the Crossrail scheme.

My hope is that this new setback does not render Tram Train a failure against its own standards. It would be very sad if the whole future of the mode was shelved just because of the appalling mismanagement of the process, much the same as APT. More importantly, it is another setback for the West Yorkshire region which was looking to the success of this trial for its own development needs.

 

[Aviador]

Yeh it's a complete farse. No such problems would exist if this were London.
An interesting point to add to the referendum debate.

We struggle to get any money at all out of our government for infrastructure projects yet European money has backed numerous projects indiscriminately without the political pull of London.

London receives something like 24 times more spending on infrastructure than the North and this has happened under both Labour and the Conservatives.

We should stay in Europe and bypass our government and apply for European money to fund transport infrastructure projects right here.

If we come out of Europe our only hope then is with full regional devolution but this of course will come with it's own bureaucracy.

 

[ls27]

I agree that devolution appears to be a good thing. The only thing to bare in mind is that the government will still hold most of the purse strings and if there is any failures in the devolved areas, well the answer from government will be "not our fault gov blame the people in charge in the area" There is no way we would be allowed to by-pass the government. We can only look at what happened when we we awarded a nice few millions from the EU. Where was it diverted to? Scotland as it was about the time of the vote to split from Great Britain.
Perhaps I am too cynical of politicians, but having worked under them for over 46 years it's not surprising.
Train tram was a northern idea, not a Southeastern idea!

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I think it is worth pointing out that Tram Train is a European - primarily German - concept that has been very successful in the areas in which it has been implemented.

I have to admire your pro EU posts, Aviador. I think there are massive pros and cons for voting either way but I don't think the EU debate will have any impact whatsoever on the long term implications for mass transit in British cities, particularly when such schemes are so badly managed. Edinburgh tram was a total mess until someone competent got hold of it. Now it is open, it is proving its worth to such an extent that it is already reshaping transport policy in Scotland. Birmingham tram is another current casualty of bad management, being delayed yet again because the track isn't correctly aligned which, frankly, is shambolic. The Newcastle metro has been in shocking decline, so much so that the franchisee has been booted off it altogether because they were doing such a poor job. When NET expansion was delayed due to poor asset management, the associated costs and negative publicity due to businesses along the route going bankrupt led to a blockage of further expansion. A councillor then had to go to extraordinary lengths to reinvigorate interest in the system which ultimately cost him his job.

Additionally, it is worth pointing out that both the Docklands Light Railway and Croydon Tram Link suffered from some hefty and costly delays and also endured the embarrassment of being unable to run underground when the DLR was extended as the rolling stock did not meet fire requirements.

By far the most successful mass transit systems in the UK (alongside the aforementioned London systems) have been Merseyrail and the Manchester Metrolink. These have arguably been managed very well and, early setbacks in Manchester aside, they have gone on to be very popular.

EU, no EU - these projects will still succeed if they have the right management and fail if they have the wrong management, no matter where they are in the country and no matter how much money is thrown at them.

 

[Aviador]

I was referring more to how we get the money for such projects having been let down twice now by central government under both Labour & Conservative leadership. I take your point regarding the management of such projects.

(By the way James, I like your flight diary link it's truly fascinating, especially your carbon footprint!)

 

[Bigman]

Maybe we should apply to be part of the Manchester City Region. We might get thing run properly then!!

 

[lbaspotter]

Well until Labour run Leeds City Council get there act together nothing will happen in regards the Leeds city Region deal. They just keep holding the city back.

 

[ls27]

Yes, Whoshotjimmi it was a German idea. What I meant was, that it was the north that was showing interest, as apposed to the south in this country. I don't think that Leeds City should take the full responsibility for the slowness of the devolution agenda. The other surrounding authorities seem as they don't really want to co-operate with one another and Leeds. Party politics and and not what is best for our region.

 

[ls27]

Yes, Whoshotjimmi it was a German idea. What I meant was, that it was the north that was showing interest, as apposed to the south in this country. I don't think that Leeds City should take the full responsibility for the slowness of the devolution agenda. The other surrounding authorities seem as they don't really want to co-operate with one another and Leeds. Party politics and and not what is best for our region.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I was referring more to how we get the money for such projects having been let down twice now by central government under both Labour & Conservative leadership. I take your point regarding the management of such projects.

(By the way James, I like your flight diary link it's truly fascinating, especially your carbon footprint!)

Yes, apparently my travel has released 5.1 Tons of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere which is broadly similar to the amount I release here.

I have been keeping the journal since 2013 and thought it would be nice to share it. As much as I am loyal mainly to the money and am fairly vociferous about most things, it should show that I support our local airport and local airline where possible. However, when I do wish to fly from elsewhere, I will look at convenience - including surface access. I'm sure there will be plenty of people like me knocking around the UK and, given better access options, LBA might become one of those potential departure points for them.

 

[Aviador]

That's so funny. Believe you me it's probably not as much carbon as I have released on here over the last few years.

 

[Bigman]

Who needs fracking!!!

 

[Aviador]

Probably much less than Bigman though !

 

[Bigman]

???? Not with you there.

 

[Aviador]

MP calls for airport road link - and new Horsforth station - to be scrapped

MP Greg Mulholland
Calls are being made to scrap the proposed new road link to Leeds Bradford Airport

http://www.ilkleygazette.co.uk/news...__and_new_Horsforth_station___to_be_scrapped/

The guys a complete moron. It's as clear as day Leeds Bradford airport needs a link road. The only realistic way forward to enable increased flights from Leeds Bradford airport is to improve road access. All the studies that have been carried out say a fixed rail link would not be viable until the airport is significantly busier.

I drove down Victoria Avenue on Sunday and the traffic was queuing underneath the airport tunnel tailing back to the roundabout. The half a mile journey from the airport roundabout to the Yeadon traffic lights took around 10 minutes.

Leeds City Council's own stats say with the new link road the new route would make the Leeds Ring Road the prefered and quickest option to both Leeds and Bradford city centres so it's a no brainer the road needs to be built.

#leedsairport #linkroad #raillink

 

[oldendays]

I voted for Greg Mulholland at the last two General Elections. I wish I hadn't. Never again ! What are his motives ?

 

[Aviador]

I voted for Greg Mulholland at the last two General Elections. I wish I hadn't. Never again ! What are his motives ?

He knows the airport well and he knows how bad the roads are in the area. As I said in my previous post, all the studies by both Leeds City Council and the Department for Transport say a fixed rail link isn't viable. I asked him directly about the rail link quoting the Department for Transport study and his answer was basically they are lying or something to that extent but he failed to quote any counter studies which suggested otherwise. To be honest I get the impression he is just anti airport, perhaps he live underneath the flight path, who knows.