Infrastructure, Construction & Developments

[LBA787]

Has the South terminal parking stand realignment project being completed yet?

 

[Matt995]

Has the South terminal parking stand realignment project being completed yet?

Yes, Jet2 have been using them today, and the realigned stands now have new published coordinates:-

C1693/24 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QMPXX/IV/BO /A /000/999/5227N00145W005
A) EGBB B) 2403251150 C) PERM
E) UPDATE STAND COORDINATES AS FOLLOWS:
STAND 1 522702.5447N 0014357.9498W
STAND 2 522701.7210N 0014359.9318W
STAND 3 522700.9070N 0014401.8987W
STAND 4 522700.0881N 0014403.8676W
STAND 5 522659.4139N 0014405.3379W
STAND 6 522659.2006N 0014407.1883W
STAND 7 522700.4065N 0014408.5094W
STAND 8 522701.3725N 0014409.6463W
STAND 12 522702.3815N 0014409.0845W
STAND 13 522703.1283N 0014407.2240W
STAND 14 522703.9467N 0014405.2406W
STAND 15 522704.7687N 0014403.2630W
STAND 16 522705.5899N 0014401.2815W
UK AIP AD 2.EGBB-2-2 REFERS.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there all, I totally agree with you on that point regarding been greeted on arrivals terminal, all these hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds being spent on some sort of futuristic terminal, that never ends up like it's artist impression, but something opposite, when they inform you that due to financial budgeting decisions, they having to reduce from there original budget of 500 million pounds, down to 250 or even 200 million pounds. Which turns out to be a waste of money dreamed up by some professional architect, instead of some local residents who lives in the area, that knows the airport better than a complete stranger walking through the door. Some of the best ideas have beaten off the professionals, with a simplified design that won't cost 500 or 600 million pounds, but when completed, will be appreciated more than a professional one

 

[Deleted member 8277]

Hi there all, I totally agree with you on that point regarding been greeted on arrivals terminal, all these hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds being spent on some sort of futuristic terminal, that never ends up like it's artist impression, but something opposite, when they inform you that due to financial budgeting decisions, they having to reduce from there original budget of 500 million pounds, down to 250 or even 200 million pounds. Which turns out to be a waste of money dreamed up by some professional architect, instead of some local residents who lives in the area, that knows the airport better than a complete stranger walking through the door. Some of the best ideas have beaten off the professionals, with a simplified design that won't cost 500 or 600 million pounds, but when completed, will be appreciated more than a professional one

I agree, the new security hall seems quite small what you can see at the moment. It is going to be very interesting this summer when it opens, if they think it will handle 18m passengers think again, new faster scanners isn't going to alleviate congestion in a small area. They need serious head examinations if they think this will handle that amount of pax with ease . The arrivals into BHX in a disgrace a pokey little shithole with one set of stairs down to immigration, couple that with pissport errr sorry Swissport it makes an arrivals lottery experience especially when they favour a large "aircraft" airline over other airlines for baggage reclamation.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

The arrivals into BHX in a disgrace a pokey little shithole with one set of stairs down to immigration, couple that with pissport errr sorry Swissport it makes an arrivals lottery experience especially when they favour a large "aircraft" airline over other airlines for baggage reclamation.

And that is the best area - try arriving when Jet2 have a busy patch. 3 border guards and 2 carousels. I have seen queues almost out to the airbridges.

This is the first impression visitors get of the city.

 

[Brum X]

I agree, the new security hall seems quite small what you can see at the moment. It is going to be very interesting this summer when it opens, if they think it will handle 18m passengers think again, new faster scanners isn't going to alleviate congestion in a small area. They need serious head examinations if they think this will handle that amount of pax with ease . The arrivals into BHX in a disgrace a pokey little shithole with one set of stairs down to immigration, couple that with pissport errr sorry Swissport it makes an arrivals lottery experience especially when they favour a large "aircraft" airline over other airlines for baggage reclamation.

And that escalator that never works, welcome to Broken Britain. ;-(

 

[Kevin Farnell]

It is going to be very interesting this summer when it opens, if they think it will handle 18m passengers think again,

Surely it only needs to handle 9m passengers as only outbound passengers will have their bags scanned and they tend to make up about 50%.

 

[Nibbles]

I agree, the new security hall seems quite small what you can see at the moment. It is going to be very interesting this summer when it opens, if they think it will handle 18m passengers think again, new faster scanners isn't going to alleviate congestion in a small area. They need serious head examinations if they think this will handle that amount of pax with ease . The arrivals into BHX in a disgrace a pokey little shithole with one set of stairs down to immigration, couple that with pissport errr sorry Swissport it makes an arrivals lottery experience especially when they favour a large "aircraft" airline over other airlines for baggage reclamation.

IT'S STILL BEING BUILT!!!

Im continually amused by comment from 'experts' - not engineers, who design these things for a living - who have no knowledge of the behind the scenes work and describe the outcome based on the little bit they are seeing to date. By all means note that you think there might not be enough capacity, but to suggest that those who are involved don't know what they are doing is unnecessary, unhelpful and gives plenty of people the wrong impression.

As i understand it, the new scanners can process c.400 people/bags per hour each comfortably, compared with less than half that of the existing systems. Of course, that means queues dont get as long or will move faster, compared with previously. That is then factored in to the design of the infrastructure within the confines of what is allowable (planning, funding availability, etc.).

I also didn't realise the extent to which the terminal layout (airside) shifts once the new security area opens. Sounds quite exciting.

I agree with you re the arrivals hall and baggage reclaim, but the need to sort security i expect trumped any other works, including the departure lounge extension. Its probably fair to assume that previous plans (pre-Covid) will kick off soon-ish. As with anything though there is never only one jigsaw piece being moved - with knock on consequences right across the terminal building.

 

[Deleted member 8277]

IT'S STILL BEING BUILT!!!

Im continually amused by comment from 'experts' - not engineers, who design these things for a living - who have no knowledge of the behind the scenes work and describe the outcome based on the little bit they are seeing to date. By all means note that you think there might not be enough capacity, but to suggest that those who are involved don't know what they are doing is unnecessary, unhelpful and gives plenty of people the wrong impression.

As i understand it, the new scanners can process c.400 people/bags per hour each comfortably, compared with less than half that of the existing systems. Of course, that means queues dont get as long or will move faster, compared with previously. That is then factored in to the design of the infrastructure within the confines of what is allowable (planning, funding availability, etc.).

I also didn't realise the extent to which the terminal layout (airside) shifts once the new security area opens. Sounds quite exciting.

I agree with you re the arrivals hall and baggage reclaim, but the need to sort security i expect trumped any other works, including the departure lounge extension. Its probably fair to assume that previous plans (pre-Covid) will kick off soon-ish. As with anything though there is never only one jigsaw piece being moved - with knock on consequences right across the terminal building.

Hmmm, ACTUALLY THE AREA IS ALREADY BUILT and they are just fitting the area out, but the area is still SMALL. I'm no expert and never said I was but also I'm not stupid to ignore what is blatantly apparent already.
Keep your blinkers on nibbles it really amuses me and bury your head deeper it that sand !!
Computers and scanners can process as many pax as they are programmed to but it doesn't account for stupid people and believe me when I say a lot of people leave there brains at home when they get to an airport, that includes security staff and pax , I see it almost every time I'm on shift and experience when I travel through BHX!!
If you think the new security area will end the horrendous queues then great, bang your big hairy chest and laugh your socks off at me, I hope to pass you in one of the said queues over the summer( give me a wave). Don't forget they will be combining north and south terminal passengers into the new security area so congestion will be at one area and not 2 like at present.
You mention engineers who design things for a living, they never get things wrong do they!! B737 max MCAS springs to mind amongst many other things at least a scanner wont kill you.
I have my views and tell what is reality at the moment but the jury is definitely out on how effective the new scanners and security hall will perform to reduce queues.
As I posted on post 1561 further back BHX were quoted saying about the queues "it's the new normal", that statement suggests the queues are here to stay and couple that with Nick bartons quote (post 1534) "A larger queue area including longer security lanes and a new corral will help the customers moving", doesn't install much confidence.

 

[TM3]

Out of all of the airports I've been thorugh in the UK of late BHX seems one of the most difficult and time consuming to clear security.

One of the reasons (but not the only one) I put this down to is often insisting on checking and rescanning when no "prohibited" items are in the luggage. I've had my hand luggage searched and re-scanned because I had bananas in my bag. Not sure what they expected me to do with those?! Or for that matter why having identified said bananas needed to rescan my bag.

Once your bag gets spun off for a search this can often waste a lot of time as despite there often being apparently quite a lot of staff in the hall few seem to be able to do the scan.

Last year I saw one of the staff who was there to assist an infirm passenger through the process put his bag through with 1 litre bottles of water etc in it. This obviously meant it had to go around more than once (at least twice) while they figured out what stuff was in his bag that needed to be taken out. It seemed to me like they were trying to rush someone through who clearly didn't understand the rules and needed asking some basic questions about what they might have before pushing them to the front of the fast track line.

Personally I am not entirely convinced that the new scanners will improve the situation as we may see even more time being spent to search luggage afterwards due an increase in what people attempt to carry. But lets face if the airport wants to check my bag for bananas right now what difference are new scanners going to make, it's surely about the procedures they follow.

At the risk of stating the obvious the situation is a lot worse when there are a lot of package holiday flights scheduled, but at some other times the hall can be quiet with hardly anything going on at all. Is it not something that could be partly addressed through better scheduling of flights.

 

[Nibbles]

Hmmm, ACTUALLY THE AREA IS ALREADY BUILT and they are just fitting the area out, but the area is still SMALL. I'm no expert and never said I was but also I'm not stupid to ignore what is blatantly apparent already.
Keep your blinkers on nibbles it really amuses me and bury your head deeper it that sand !!
Computers and scanners can process as many pax as they are programmed to but it doesn't account for stupid people and believe me when I say a lot of people leave there brains at home when they get to an airport, that includes security staff and pax , I see it almost every time I'm on shift and experience when I travel through BHX!!
If you think the new security area will end the horrendous queues then great, bang your big hairy chest and laugh your socks off at me, I hope to pass you in one of the said queues over the summer( give me a wave). Don't forget they will be combining north and south terminal passengers into the new security area so congestion will be at one area and not 2 like at present.
You mention engineers who design things for a living, they never get things wrong do they!! B737 max MCAS springs to mind amongst many other things at least a scanner wont kill you.
I have my views and tell what is reality at the moment but the jury is definitely out on how effective the new scanners and security hall will perform to reduce queues.
As I posted on post 1561 further back BHX were quoted saying about the queues "it's the new normal", that statement suggests the queues are here to stay and couple that with Nick bartons quote (post 1534) "A larger queue area including longer security lanes and a new corral will help the customers moving", doesn't install much confidence.

You are willfully misinterpreting what i said.

It IS still being built. Yes, maybe the actual building work is done, but it is NOT finished. The only way we will know is once the work is complete - and i will reserve judgment until that time.

In any case, i know several people working in the delivery team for the airport, whos only focus is on making it work properly. Who knows, they might get it wrong, but no one should be daft enough to think that everyone is sitting around with their fingers crossed.

Remember, also, that the current phase is all about delivery of the infrastructure. Operational planning can only really happen once all the main work is complete, and new logistics arrangements can then bed in. In other words, if the whole place is a nightmare a month or so after the works are complete we can probably all then agree that something has gone wrong.

The only thing to think about is queue time. It doesnt matter if the queue is 5 yards or 5 miles long, its all about how long. I suspect the design might have a longer average length of queue, but with a lower total time through security. No airport wants everyone stuck in a giant (time)security queue because they cant be spending money then. But we shall see what happens.

On engineers - the B737 Max MCAS debacle was not an engineering problem, it was a management problem. Many have written about how Boeing's problem is management induced with the wrong incentives (and pressures) on the engineering team.

Anyway, no point debating this much further. I'll reserve further opinions until the whole system is open - and if its all terrible at that point, do feel free to say that you told me so!

 

[Deleted member 8277]

You are willfully misinterpreting what i said.

It IS still being built. Yes, maybe the actual building work is done, but it is NOT finished. The only way we will know is once the work is complete - and i will reserve judgment until that time.

In any case, i know several people working in the delivery team for the airport, whos only focus is on making it work properly. Who knows, they might get it wrong, but no one should be daft enough to think that everyone is sitting around with their fingers crossed.

Remember, also, that the current phase is all about delivery of the infrastructure. Operational planning can only really happen once all the main work is complete, and new logistics arrangements can then bed in. In other words, if the whole place is a nightmare a month or so after the works are complete we can probably all then agree that something has gone wrong.

The only thing to think about is queue time. It doesnt matter if the queue is 5 yards or 5 miles long, its all about how long. I suspect the design might have a longer average length of queue, but with a lower total time through security. No airport wants everyone stuck in a giant (time)security queue because they cant be spending money then. But we shall see what happens.

On engineers - the B737 Max MCAS debacle was not an engineering problem, it was a management problem. Many have written about how Boeing's problem is management induced with the wrong incentives (and pressures) on the engineering team.

Anyway, no point debating this much further. I'll reserve further opinions until the whole system is open - and if its all terrible at that point, do feel free to say that you told me so!

I don't do told you so's !

I agree about the management problems, after reading the comments from the current BHX management then they seen resigned to a certain fact flogged to death already.

It will certainly be an interesting summer either way.

 

[Nibbles]

Haha - well, you are still welcome if im proved wrong

Just an observation re management and statements about outcomes - one might argue it would be slightly foolish to say 'our airport will be the best ever and our queues will be measured in seconds from day one of opening' as it leaves you a hostage to fortune. One might also argue that if they say 'we wont get rid of queues completely, there will still be busy times and you should plan accordingly because queues are inevitable' then us travellers may well be pleasantly surprised if/when it all works fine. But thats the art of writing a business case for investment, i guess...!

Anyway, i have 3 trips in June to test the waters

 

[Deleted member 8277]

Haha - well, you are still welcome if im proved wrong

Just an observation re management and statements about outcomes - one might argue it would be slightly foolish to say 'our airport will be the best ever and our queues will be measured in seconds from day one of opening' as it leaves you a hostage to fortune. One might also argue that if they say 'we wont get rid of queues completely, there will still be busy times and you should plan accordingly because queues are inevitable' then us travellers may well be pleasantly surprised if/when it all works fine. But thats the art of writing a business case for investment, i guess...!

Anyway, i have 3 trips in June to test the waters

Promise you'll wave when I pass? hahahaha

 

[HPsauce]

Heavy criticism on Midlands news tonight for bad delays this morning at BHX. Many flights delayed around an hour+. Congestion at Security blamed.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Heavy criticism on Midlands news tonight for bad delays this morning at BHX. Many flights delayed around an hour+. Congestion at Security blamed.

From the BBC -

Passengers angry at Birmingham Airport delays

Social media posts show people in long queues inside Birmingham Airport due to a technical issue in security.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jfy1999]

Lifts breaking down, surprise surprise.

Whatever happened to ordinary stairs?

 

[nwoody2001]

Lifts breaking down, surprise surprise.

Whatever happened to ordinary stairs?

where does it say lifts had broken down?

 

[jfy1999]

I assumed it was what the passenger meant when he said “the queues started outside the airport and spread inside to the escalators and lift with only one lift working”…the picture shows people queuing in front of multiple lifts.

 

[TM3]

I read a similar article in the Independent;

Stansted and Birmingham airport passengers hit by long delays due to technical issues

‘After queuing for two hours at Birmingham airport I missed my flight’ – passenger Joe Morris

www.independent.co.uk

This claims 15% of bags need re-scanning, iand each one adds 10 minutes to the process. Is this a normal percentage or is it driven by different rules at BHX to other airports?

Also the claim by the spokesman for the airport that this is a typical Monday and the new normal does not make me want to travel out of BHX anytime soon.