Eastern Airways

[Jerry]

Just booked Cardiff to Anglesey return with Eastern on the J41 for the 31st October. With seat selection it cost me £54.98 and that was one of the cheaper day trips!

 

[Matthew Davies]

This is obviously paving the way for the ABZ PSO route. and who know a NCL route as a stop off. Please forgive if im wrong but T3 only need a few passengers on the J41 to break even. the NCL route gets 8-10 plus regularly. Both Cardiff and Westminster plus the Scottish Government will look to build relations especially with the SLIGHT upturn in oil. Who knows.

 

[Jerry]

I doubt it we'll see any pso routes personally. It will also be curious to see how the NCL service fares without the extra ABZ passengers.

 

[Silvercity]

Just booked Cardiff to Anglesey return with Eastern on the J41 for the 31st October. With seat selection it cost me £54.98 and that was one of the cheaper day trips!

Any plans for when you get there ?
Is there a bus ? Although I have a feeling there is a station quite close ?

 

[Jerry]

Any plans for when you get there ?
Is there a bus ? Although I have a feeling there is a station quite close ?

Hoping to do a bit of planespotting.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

This is obviously paving the way for the ABZ PSO route. and who know a NCL route as a stop off. Please forgive if im wrong but T3 only need a few passengers on the J41 to break even. the NCL route gets 8-10 plus regularly. Both Cardiff and Westminster plus the Scottish Government will look to build relations especially with the SLIGHT upturn in oil. Who knows.

If CWL-NCL-ABZ was planned both sectors (CWL-NCL and NCL-ABZ) would have to qualify and be accepted for PSO status. The WG would have no jurisdiction over NCL-ABZ of course. CWL-ABZ could still be a PSO route even if the individual sectors were not, although that could give rise to some anomalous fares.

CWL-NCL is not one of the routes in the WG's list of PSO routes that are currently being assessed.

Some years ago Eastern operated a daily Bristol-Isle of Man with J41s that typically averaged 15-20 passengers per flight each month. After a few years the route was pulled. Loads are not the be-all and end-all and yields are not always linked to load factors especially at different airports, but In those days it seemed that 15-20 was not enough for Eastern in the end, at least on this particular route. That would have been around ten years ago because Flybe and now easyJet have tried that route since.

 

[superking]

On any PSO route are the airlines restricted to what they charge for tickets.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

On any PSO route are the airlines restricted to what they charge for tickets.

Maximum fare tariffs can be included in a PSO if deemed necessary along with frequencies, times of flights, type of aircraft etc.

The successful airline in a PSO route bid is usually the one that can operate with the lowest subsidy from government, provided it can meet the conditions of the particular PSO.

The Welsh Government Transport Minister has indicated that the proposed PSO routes for Wales will receive only 'modest' marketing assistance and no other subsidy. He believes that the removal of APD and a four-year exclusivity on each route will be sufficiently attractive to airlines on at least some of the proposed routes.

 

[Jerry]

The Welsh Government Transport Minister has indicated that the proposed PSO routes for Wales will receive only 'modest' marketing assistance and no other subsidy. He believes that the removal of APD and a four-year exclusivity on each route will be sufficiently attractive to airlines on at least some of the proposed routes.

I suppose he wants to provide some sort of security on the route for the operator and i'd imagine he'd have Flybe and Eastern in mind as both airlines would be cautious of taking any risks and even airlines like Loganair and flyBMI would be the same. As for Aberdeen would it qualify considering BRS has a service and same with INV and i suppose it comes back to that in that the South Wales area may not in the UK governments mind be considered isolated enough or even economically important enough to the other aiports area to warrant non inter-Wales PSO routes. Will be surprised if one is awarded. Though i do wonder if the WG could go down the route of giving marketing assistance to any airline wishing to start up a route like CWL-MAN or CWL-ABZ without it being a PSO?

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I can't see how ABZ or NCL would qualify for PSO or any kind of marketing assistance. Eastern have operated the route for a number of years, and apparently the reason for the cut backs is aircraft availability. Add on to that rumoured poor management and unhappy crews and it's becoming an operational mess. This will no doubt cause people to look elsewhere and make the journey from other Airports.
If T3 got their act together the route would work without the need for support.
T3 have previously done well in supporting the business market, but have always had to be expensive to make it sustainable. What would be better if T3 (or BE) could grow the route sufficiently and operate it by the Saab or ATR which would help drive down prices and attract more passengers.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I suppose he wants to provide some sort of security on the route for the operator and i'd imagine he'd have Flybe and Eastern in mind as both airlines would be cautious of taking any risks and even airlines like Loganair and flyBMI would be the same. As for Aberdeen would it qualify considering BRS has a service and same with INV and i suppose it comes back to that in that the South Wales area may not in the UK governments mind be considered isolated enough or even economically important enough to the other aiports area to warrant non inter-Wales PSO routes. Will be surprised if one is awarded. Though i do wonder if the WG could go down the route of giving marketing assistance to any airline wishing to start up a route like CWL-MAN or CWL-ABZ without it being a PSO?

The BRS-ABZ service by flybmi is a bit haphazard - really no more than once a day. easyJet's BRS-INV is daily and more reliable but if, as the Transport Minister indicated, he wants the PSO routes to enable a day's work at either end a single daily route from an airport over an hour away would probably not be an obstacle; furthermore, reading the EC guidelines on PSO air routes, I can't see anything that would prevent a CWL route to somewhere operated from BRS at multi daily frequency (provided the PSO route complied with the EU legislation and EC guidelines). The fact that the WG has CWL-GLA on its PSO list against the up to 4 x daily BRS-GLA seems to support this view.

As to marketing assistance for an airline wishing to start a route at CWL, if it was done through the airport company there shouldn't be an issue. Flybe was reported as being the recipient of several million pounds from the CWL airport company in route support. That was raised through money loaned by the WG on commercial terms but it shows as a debt on the airport company balance sheet. The WG might not be too keen to extend that sort of thing although not all of its lending facility to its airport company has yet been taken up.

Providing money direct from the WG is always liable to be looked at to see if it contravenes state aid rules. As I understand it the one million pounds per year provided by the WG outside its airport company for Qatar Airways is in connection with an agreement with the airline for it to promote Wales abroad and is not actually marketing assistance for the route, although some might think it's a narrow distinction.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I can't see how ABZ or NCL would qualify for PSO or any kind of marketing assistance. Eastern have operated the route for a number of years, and apparently the reason for the cut backs is aircraft availability. Add on to that rumoured poor management and unhappy crews and it's becoming an operational mess. This will no doubt cause people to look elsewhere and make the journey from other Airports.
If T3 got their act together the route would work without the need for support.
T3 have previously done well in supporting the business market, but have always had to be expensive to make it sustainable. What would be better if T3 (or BE) could grow the route sufficiently and operate it by the Saab or ATR which would help drive down prices and attract more passengers.

One of the many criteria to be considered for an air PSO route is an existing 'thin route'. This is what the EC Guidelines say about that (the EC issued the guidelines because there is scant case law on PSOs from the European Court. In future the Court could overturn any of the guidelines of course).

Thin routes to any airport

The Regulation does not define a quantified criterion to assess the "thinness" of a route, given the various situations that may prevail in different Member States. However, based on the Commission's experience in a large number of PSO cases, it appears safe to say that a route with traffic of more than 100000 passengers per year cannot normally be considered as a thin route within the meaning of the Regulation.18

 

[Jerry]

Could Anglesey Airport be classed as Wales second busiest airport?

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Arguably I would say Chester/Hawarden/Broughton airport whatever they want to be called these days.

 

[StanMan]

I guess it depends on how you wish to measure being 'busy'. If it's just passenger transport movements, then its likely to be Angelesey. However, if it's all aircraft movements, then I'd agree with Hawarden - of those airports where CAA stats are available, Hawarden is much busier than Swansea, so is likely be second busiest - certainly the level of activity at Hawarden appears to be much greater than what I'd expect for St Athan and Anglesey, even allowing for military movements (not sure if the CAA stats include military movements).

 

[Jerry]

With airports i was wondering if having a scheduled route would mean that Anglesey would rank above Hawarden. Or is it just down to pure passenger numbers no matter if they scheduled chartered or general aviation?

 

[Cardiffbay]

I guess it depends on how you wish to measure being 'busy'. If it's just passenger transport movements, then its likely to be Angelesey. However, if it's all aircraft movements, then I'd agree with Hawarden - of those airports where CAA stats are available, Hawarden is much busier than Swansea, so is likely be second busiest - certainly the level of activity at Hawarden appears to be much greater than what I'd expect for St Athan and Anglesey, even allowing for military movements (not sure if the CAA stats include military movements).

I would think hawarden would handle more passengers then Anglesey as it sees twice daily flights to Toulouse on the e145 but I’m not sure if they count as they are airbus shuttle flights.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

CAA stats show Anglesey-Cardiff handling 13,045 passengers in 2017.

CAA stats show Bristol-Hawarden handling 3,265 passengers in 2017 (Airbus shuttle operated by Eastern E145s).

There are no CAA stats for Hawarden-Toulouse but Bristol-Toulouse shows 17,217 under charter flights which I take to be the Airbus Shuttle operated by EasternE145s, as opposed to the easyJet service which handled over 93,000 passengers and is shown under scheduled traffic by the CAA.

The Airbus shuttle seems to operate Toulouse-Bristol-Hawarden and the same in the reverse direction so it may be that the 17,000 passengers shown as BRS-TLS included some who began or ended their journey at Hawarden.

Therefore it's not possible to arrive at a definitive total of passenger numbers on the Airbus shuttle between Hawarden and Toulouse.

 

[Cardiffbay]

I use the airbus shuttle often from Bristol and when it arrives from Broughton it is usually around or just over half full. There are 2 dedicatied toulouse to Bristol flights a week, one on Monday and one on Thursday. All the others operate Broughton-Bristol-Toulouse.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Another factor which needs to take into consideration is any executive aircraft that may head into Chester.