Eastern Airways

[TheLocalYokel]

Just heard on Capital radio that the Welsh government has extended the Anglesey flights for another 4 year's. Hopefully with Eastern operating it the service can get some stability now.

The extension of the contract will certainly not meet with universal approval in Wales. Cynics, with perhaps a degree of justification, will continue to say that it's a convenient way for AMs and senior civil servants to travel across the country 'on duty' and that is the primary reason for its presence and continuation.

 

[Jerry]

The extension of the contract will certainly not meet with universal approval in Wales. Cynics, with perhaps a degree of justification, will continue to say that it's a convenient way for AMs and senior civil servants to travel across the country 'on duty' and that is the primary reason for its presence and continuation.

There will be people who aren't happy about it but i do hope that now it's confirmed to be operating for another 4 year's that the airport and government can advertise it as a tourist connection to North Wales for South Walians and even maybe people from Bristol. The route needs to be gotten away from the belief that its just an AM shuttle.

 

[Jerry]

Here is the Welsh governments official announcement of the continuation of the Anglesey flights.
http://gov.wales/newsroom/firstmini...y-to-cardiff-flights-set-to-continue/?lang=en

 

[Jerry]

According to Aviation Wales the review has suggested a 3rd destination for the route. If that is within the PSO then I'm wondering if they could go for Aberporth/West Wales?
www.aviationwales.com/cardiff-to-anglesey-route-could-get-3rd-destination/

 

[Jerry]

With the suggestion that their could be a 3rd destination added for the aircraft that does VLY at the moment i was wondering if 1 crew a day with their daily hours could do CWL-VLY-CWL-MAN/LBA-CWL-VLY-CWL.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

With the suggestion that their could be a 3rd destination added for the aircraft that does VLY at the moment i was wondering if 1 crew a day with their daily hours could do CWL-VLY-CWL-MAN/LBA-CWL-VLY-CWL.

I don't know about crew hours but I do wonder how well a single-daily double-drop MAN/LBA would do. Without some form of code share there would be no onward connectivity at MAN, unless passengers took a chance with separate bookings.

Single-daily and middle-of-the-day timings would be of limited use to business travellers. There have been stranger routings so nothing would surprise me. The previous PSO operator tried Norwich for a short while in order to utilise the aircraft during the day but that was an abject failure and didn't last too long.

 

[Jerry]

I don't know about crew hours but I do wonder how well a single-daily double-drop MAN/LBA would do. Without some form of code share there would be no onward connectivity at MAN, unless passengers took a chance with separate bookings.

Single-daily and middle-of-the-day timings would be of limited use to business travellers. There have been stranger routings so nothing would surprise me. The previous PSO operator tried Norwich for a short while in order to utilise the aircraft during the day but that was an abject failure and didn't last too long.

If it was MAN i believe it would need to be 2 daily and codeshare. LBA might be far enough that a daily would work but IMO it would need to be a bigger aircraft than a 31 seater. I travelled back from quite near LBA today and it took me 6 and a half hours door to door by train and bus.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

If it was MAN i believe it would need to be 2 daily and codeshare. LBA might be far enough that a daily would work but IMO it would need to be a bigger aircraft than a 31 seater. I travelled back from quite near LBA today and it took me 6 and a half hours door to door by train and bus.

Yes, a Flybe connection with MAN would be the ideal, at least 2 x daily. Last year it was thought there was going to be a daily Flybe CWL-MAN but it didn't happen and anyway if it does happen the route needs more than a single daily to cater for onward connectivity.

As a matter of interest (it's relevant in the sense that it gives an idea of rail competition if an airline was looking at CWL-LBA) did you have to change trains? I don't think there are direct trains between Cardiff and Leeds. I believe it's necessary to change either at Manchester Piccadilly or Bristol Parkway.

I can't remember a time when a CWL-LBA route existed, if it ever did. Maybe in the days of Cambrian or Dan Air on a bus service-type multi hop.

 

[rmac]

I seem to remember a GLA-LBA-BRS-CWL-LBA-GLA many years ago with Dan Air.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I seem to remember a GLA-LBA-BRS-CWL-LBA-GLA many years ago with Dan Air.

Thank you for that. I wondered whether it might be the case. Bus service-type hops were quite common in those days and before that in the 1930s the way that most local airports within Britain were connected.

 

[Jerry]

Yes, a Flybe connection with MAN would be the ideal, at least 2 x daily. Last year it was thought there was going to be a daily Flybe CWL-MAN but it didn't happen and anyway if it does happen the route needs more than a single daily to cater for onward connectivity.

As a matter of interest (it's relevant in the sense that it gives an idea of rail competition if an airline was looking at CWL-LBA) did you have to change trains? I don't think there are direct trains between Cardiff and Leeds. I believe it's necessary to change either at Manchester Piccadilly or Bristol Parkway.

I can't remember a time when a CWL-LBA route existed, if it ever did. Maybe in the days of Cambrian or Dan Air on a bus service-type multi hop.

Yes I changed twice once at Leeds Central and then Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[Aviador]

CWL-LBA route was last served by Leeds based airline Knight Air. The airline ceased trading after a fatal accident involving one of its aircraft operating on its LBA-ABZ route.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Air_Flight_816

 

[Seasider]

CWL-LBA route was last served by Leeds based airline Knight Air. The airline ceased trading after a fatal accident involving one of its aircraft operating on its LBA-ABZ route.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Air_Flight_816

I thought Capital A/L operated after them.

 

[Aviador]

No Knight Air was definately after Capital Airlines.

 

[Seasider]

No Knight Air was definately after Capital Airlines.

Please accept my humble apologies Aviador, I didn't realise it is 25 years since Capital went "upside down"

 

[Jerry]

A poster on another forum has suggested that the Welsh Government could be looking for a more permanent operator of the VLY route and that may not be Eastern. At the moment Eastern do seem to be doing a decent job and them staying would bring more continuity to the route. If they don't operate it in the future i'm wondering who actually will be able to? I know there is North Flying but i believe they don't sell tickets. Apart from them i'm scratching my head as to who they would get to operate the route?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

A poster on another forum has suggested that the Welsh Government could be looking for a more permanent operator of the VLY route and that may not be Eastern. At the moment Eastern do seem to be doing a decent job and them staying would bring more continuity to the route. If they don't operate it in the future i'm wondering who actually will be able to? I know there is North Flying but i believe they don't sell tickets. Apart from them i'm scratching my head as to who they would get to operate the route?

Now that APD is no longer levied on PSO flights the previous restriction in the contract about using aircraft with 20 seats or fewer (exempt from APD) would cease to be a sticking point. That said, using larger aircraft would probably mean a more expensive contract although it doesn't seem to be a problem with Eastern.

Loganair or sister company bmi regional? The latter won a PSO Derry-Stansted contract this year.

 

[Jerry]

Loganair or sister company bmi regional? The latter won a PSO Derry-Stansted contract this year.

With Loganair ceasing the Flybe franchise in October i believe they may consider branching out. I do believe they operate PSO's to some of the Scottish islands. Could also possibly operate another route into CWL to cover it and they do seem to want to take on Flybe at other airport's.
BMI would be interesting especially if they used a of the e135s for the route. Another factor could be for them is that they wouldn't really have to base at CWL. The aircraft could hop over from BRS operate the flight and hop back and then another could do something similar in the afternoon. Only thing with BMI is that there fleet does seem to be quite stretched at the moment.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Jerry

I note a discussion on another aviation website about putting on larger aircraft on the Cardiff-Valley route and that it has been pointed out that Valley is currently restricted in the number of passengers it can handle. That may be the current situation but as long ago as July 2015 (Public Accounts Committee report) the Welsh Government was discussing the idea of a larger aircraft in the wake of the abolition of APD on PSO routes.

It was suggested then that to upgrade facilities at Valley to take larger aircraft would probably cost in the region of one million pounds which is why I said that it would be expensive to use larger aircraft.

The below link is to the Public Accounts Committee report - read from para 44 onwards.

http://www.assembly.wales/laid documents/cr-ld10318/cr-ld10318-e.pdf

 

[Jerry]

Jerry

I note a discussion on another aviation website about putting on larger aircraft on the Cardiff-Valley route and that it has been pointed out that Valley is currently restricted in the number of passengers it can handle. That may be the current situation but as long ago as July 2015 (Public Accounts Committee report) the Welsh Government was discussing the idea of a larger aircraft in the wake of the abolition of APD on PSO routes.

It was suggested then that to upgrade facilities at Valley to take larger aircraft would probably cost in the region of one million pounds which is why I said that it would be expensive to use larger aircraft.

The below link is to the Public Accounts Committee report - read from para 44 onwards.

http://www.assembly.wales/laid documents/cr-ld10318/cr-ld10318-e.pdf

I always thought that the restriction was because of APD. If they were to spend money on upgrading VLY then they would need to bring in other routes from VLY to warrant any expenditure.