Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations

[Coathanger16]

The airport authorities would not turn a scheduled flight away without good reason.

Just on that point, whose decision is it to close the runway in these conditions? Is it a joint decision by the airport & ATC, or does one 'authority' have final say?

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all, regarding the runway closure at bhx due to adverse weather conditions on Sunday morning. What time does the runway close at bhx after 11pm, and this then enables the maintenance crew to do essential work whilst it is closed during the night, if so, then at what time did it start to snow then at bhx, surely when this happens, then gritting machines and snow plows should have been brought in to prevent the airport runway closure.. AndyC

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all, regarding the runway closure at bhx due to adverse weather conditions on Sunday morning. What time does the runway close at bhx after 11pm, and this then enables the maintenance crew to do essential work whilst it is closed during the night, if so, then at what time did it start to snow then at bhx, surely when this happens, then gritting machines and snow plows should have been brought in to prevent the airport runway closure.. AndyC

 

[DaveBham]

From what I’ve read, they do not use grit at airports as the salt content is corrosive to aluminium.

Incidentally, anyone know why the Toulouse departure out of bhx hasn’t left yet?

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there DaveBham, you mentioned that salt would be corrosive with Aluminium, when does the Aluminium come in to it. So what do they use to clear the runway then...AndyC

 

[Ashley]

Rather then blaming everyone else like it's become a normal thing do so just wanted to say this, hats off to those staff who put so much time and effort in trying to get the airport running in good time. One of the meanings for adverse is unfavourable and that's exactly what the conditions were in trying to keep the runway/taxi's clear.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Ashley, I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone at all, I'm not even accusing anyone of this, the point I was trying to put over was quite simple, when it started to snow at the airport, surely someone should have notified the appropriate persons to get all snow clearing out and to the runway and clear it, my hat goes off to those had did a fantastic job, then the runway wouldn't have been closed at all... AndyC

 

[nbdm]

@andrew.clarkson I can see what you mean, but I am guessing the snow was falling quicker than it could be cleared - the wind probably didn't help either.
And the teams needed might not have been able to get there or be fully prepared etc.

The big issue tonight will be ice, the snow may turn to ice as it is likely to get very cold tonight (-8°C around the airport and in some places even colder)
The roads are already starting to get icy now that the snow has been cleared (mostly) for major roads.

Good luck to those working to clear it!

 

[Ianbutty]

As with roads which have slow moving or stationary traffic, if the runway is not being used then it will quickly become covered in snow and there is not a lot anyone can do about it, particularly when you have that much snow. Happens pretty much anywhere.

Only solution is some form of under runway heating' but the cost benefit ratio for the few days every other year that it is needed is so low that it is not worth retrospectively doing.

Hats off to all airport staff for their efforts this weekend.

Boo hoo to the Twitbook whiners who thought losing a few hours in the sun was more important than safety.

 

[Ianbutty]

Although maybe this is an idea on how to deal with the snow next time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/42308881

 

[DaveBham]

I think Flybe must be suffering logistical issues. Our plane is still at BHX, looks like they’ve upgraded from an E175 to an E195, but it was due to leave nearly 3hrs ago but is still there. Whether it’s for staffing or engineering reasons we can’t yet tell. All good fun!

 

[DaveBham]

Actually it’s taken off and they’ve sent the usual E175

 

[Ray Finkle]

Actually it’s taken off and they’ve sent the usual E175

Light at the end of the tunnel

 

[DaveBham]

Well we made it back. BHX did not help themselves.
The reason for the late departure was that plane hadn’t been de iced at BHX - apparently it was supposed to have been done by the time the pilot and crew had arrived at the airport, hence the plane being 3hrs late.
When we did arrive back at BHX, we had to wait for someone to come and signal the aircraft so it could move 20ft forward to its resting spot. Then we were stuck on the aircraft for about 15mins while ground staff brushed snow off the steps with a dust pan and brush.
As the French chap sat behind me said, did they not know we were coming?

Appreciate these are challenging conditions but these were hold ups that might have been avoided with a little common sense.

 

[Adrian678]

Did you have bags? We landed at 11pm last night, finally made it to the terminal at 1am. Suggestion that the bags were going to be another 3 hours. Lots of unhappy people in baggage claim.

Fair play to the guys and girls that were working, conditions were terrible, but surely if the airport doesn’t have sufficient handling then they should stop accepting flights.

We left without our bags as we are quite local, will try and retrieve them later today.

 

[Aviador]

Regarding snow clearing. All airports are required to produce an operational manual as part of their CAA operational licence. The manual covers everything from snow clearing to corrosive spillages and accidents. As part of this manual there is a document called Snowplan. The manual will give a step by step detailed procedure for any eventuality to ensure the right people are in the right place at the right time. In most cases it will be the Airside Safety Unit (ASU) who will make the decision to close the runway. Air Traffic Control are normally advised by the person conducting the runway inspection that the runway is unsuitable for aircraft manoeuvres. In some cases it maybe the taxiways that are unsuitable for movements prohibiting landing and taking off.

As for deicing, grit cannot be used and in most cases airports will not allow any gritting airside as it will find it's way onto the ramp and runways. A number of liquid and solid de-icers are available. A company called Clearway produce something called Kilfrost which is a white granular substance that look similar to Polystyrene balls, this type of substance is generally used on airside pathways and roads, a similar liquid form is usually used on the runways. There are a number of other companies that make similar deicing substances.

Timing is important of course but generally if the snow is falling heavily it can still be very difficult to keep the runway open especially if the snow continues to fall. At the point the decision to reopen the runway is made, deicing fluid is usually applied to the runway which can take up to 20 minutes to take effect. Even at the point the runway is suitable for manoeuvres the ramp and taxiways must also be available before aircraft can start moving. Similarly, once an aircraft has been deiced it has a limited timescale before it will need re-deicing. A bit of bad timing and bad luck with continued snowfalls can lead to a failure at any point.

I don't know if the BHX operation manual is available online but here's the LBA version if anybody is interested in reading it. I used to spend hours reading it on night shifts. I used to find it quite interesting.

http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/media/1469/aerodrome-manual-v7.pdf

 

[58terminus]

Maybe

As with roads which have slow moving or stationary traffic, if the runway is not being used then it will quickly become covered in snow and there is not a lot anyone can do about it, particularly when you have that much snow. Happens pretty much anywhere.

Maybe next time they will get it perfect if they invest millions for a once in what? 5 year event that lasts 48 hours if that. And all to prevent some people having their mini Andy Warhol moment on social and local media.
S**t happens but most of us realise that and just get on with it.

 

[58terminus]

Here's an idea.How about removing some of the bars and shops from the terminal in the Summer and replacing them with static displays of state of the art snow ploughs and de icers. Should keep the moaners happy.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Air Mediterranean 734 SX-MAI operating ATH-STN is diverting in.

 

[Ray Finkle]

We had two Easyjet divert in from Bristol.

G-EZRD from Belfast and OE-IVN from Toulouse.