New Birmingham Airport Viewing Facility

[Hassaan]

Sorry if this seems a daft question Ray but why do you think the first plan wouldn't work? It looks like a really good location.

Probably because of the neighbor hooding area (which I doubt this'll affect because it only takes up a small area. It's not TOO close to the taxi-way but it provides good photo opportunity (in the morning anyway)) but I don't know if it's the best location. A few more opinions would probably clear up that assumption.

I don't know who'll pay for it all but if I recall, a long while ago, as the 'aviation shop' at Manchester's viewing park, they originally had just a caravan, and now I presume they'd have a building for it. Point is, you don't want to make it too expensive for a relatively simple (though specialized) viewing area.

I've tried to contact Solihull Council but I haven't heard a response. Maybe we could all work together on this, trying to get people on board (with whichever situation you think will work best). I haven't heard anything from these organisations so there is a slight chance they could be fond of the first location.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Sorry if this seems a daft question Ray but why do you think the first plan wouldn't work? It looks like a really good location.

Don't get me wrong I think the location would be fantastic I just can't see it happening.

The local neighbourhood is an affluent suburb of large houses on quiet leafy streets. If there was to be an attraction that charged to park cars but was free to enter on foot people would just park on the street and walk the few hundred yards to get in. The protests from locals would be huge, not to mention the big loss of revenue from car parking.

Creating access would be difficult. To get to the airport perimeter would require the widening of The Fordrift (a narrow access road to a handful of large properties) this would need land purchasing from whoever owns that small field, all adding to the cost, and would possibly require improvements to the crossroads junction with Elmdon Lane. I also have a feeling, but am not totally sure, it may be a private road. Then there is that 'hill' to get through.

That hill is the noise bund built to insulate local residents from airport noise and a chunk would have to be cut out for the road to pass through, this may be small at the bottom but would most likely need to be tapered towards the top leaving a rather large hole. Considering taxiway Tango and the 80's stands aren't used at night in an agreement with the residents I can't see them being happy about a chunk being cut out of the noise bund. Don't forget this community have dealt with and seen off planning applications before.

The only solution I could see would be the widening of Elmdon Lane (still land would need to be purchased) taking it through the crash gate, in between the two noise bunds then through the airport service area and past the back of the fire station into the car park. You would still have to find a way to separate visitor traffic with airport service traffic (yet more road diversions) not to mention move the perimeter road (which passes through the site) to the front of the facility. You would also have to convince the airport to hand over a chunk of their land.

I'm not trying to be negative as the location would be fantastic and if the airport were looking to build a viewing area themselves I'd be all for it. I'm just trying to see this from the viewpoint of a private company/person who will be paying for all this. All of the above would have a very lengthy battle and cost a lot of money and for a project that will only get minimal returns in the first few years I think potentially interested parties may be put off by the initial outlay. To quote Hassan

Point is, you don't want to make it too expensive for a relatively simple (though specialized) viewing area.

 

[Hassaan]

So what are we looking at as more of a reality, and that we can all agree on? The fire station or the back of the TriStar hotel?

I think we should individually contact the relevant departments to get an overall opinion.

 

[Elmdon80slad]

So what are we looking at as more of a reality, and that we can all agree on? The fire station or the back of the TriStar hotel?

I think we should individually contact the relevant departments to get an overall opinion.

Some interesting comments on this subject that in my oppinion still deserves a good look, and as many heads on it as possible, I still believe a venture like this would need to be completely independent and away from the airport, as they seem to view this idea as just an annoyance and wast of time, I still think the Prime location for it would be on the site of the old Civil service sports ground, off Damson lane, I understand a local rugby team practice here, and perhaps reaching an aggreement with them about sharing some of the land might help towards breaking down some of the barrears. :s_thumbsup

 

[Ray Finkle]

So what are we looking at as more of a reality, and that we can all agree on? The fire station or the back of the TriStar hotel?

I think we should individually contact the relevant departments to get an overall opinion.

If the airport could be persuaded my preferred option would be behind the Tristar hotel. There is already access from the Elmdon site meaning no junctions with the A45 need to be built just some tarmac from the Travelodge, there is no free parking in the area meaning people will have no choice but to use the car park and the area is already wasteland so will need minimal work done on it.

Out of interest who have you contacted so far?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Some interesting comments on this subject that in my oppinion still deserves a good look, and as many heads on it as possible, I still believe a venture like this would need to be completely independent and away from the airport, as they seem to view this idea as just an annoyance and wast of time, I still think the Prime location for it would be on the site of the old Civil service sports ground, off Damson lane, I understand a local rugby team practice here, and perhaps reaching an aggreement with them about sharing some of the land might help towards breaking down some of the barrears. :s_thumbsup

Good to see you back.

If it has to be off the airport site then this is probably the best place for it, has any contact been made with them yet?

 

[Hassaan]

Out of interest who have you contacted so far?

I've tried the airport but I've learnt that using the contact form on their website gets you nowhere. I've tried the likes of Easyjet to get them on board but they were no help either. I tried Solihull Council as well but they replied saying I should contact the airport.

Do you think I should refer both ideas however?

 

[Elmdon80slad]

Some interesting comments on this subject that in my oppinion still deserves a good look, and as many heads on it as possible, I still believe a venture like this would need to be completely independent and away from the airport, as they seem to view this idea as just an annoyance and wast of time, I still think the Prime location for it would be on the site of the old Civil service sports ground, off Damson lane, I understand a local rugby team practice here, and perhaps reaching an aggreement with them about sharing some of the land might help towards breaking down some of the barrears. :s_thumbsup

Good to see you back.

If it has to be off the airport site then this is probably the best place for it, has any contact been made with them yet?

Hi Ray, I think it is Bham Exiles RFC who reside there, I have not had time to contact them as yet, but perhaps someone could do this and see how approachable they are regarding this Idea, I believe there is still a function facility on site(old soccer/cricket use) and this would be usefull and financialy good to open to spectators, I still think the idea of raised viewing to see over the new grass banks that are due to be built near the runway extention, and some specialised facilities ie shop/ammenities.

 

[Hassaan]

I've contacted Gordon Stretch (who manages the BHX Flight Guide blog) about the proposals and asked him to pass them on - this is the response I have gotten.

Hi Hassaan

Thanks for that - great idea but who pays?

Sheldon Country Park provides excellent (free) views of the north end of the airfield - the new footpath next to the A45 diversion will provide new (free) views of the south side of the airfield and the terminal

I am afraid the local enthusiasts are not going to pay for something that they already get for free and as a result I cannot see a business case for an area like this

When Manchester first built their viewing park on the south side they did so because there was no freely accessible viewing point so people were happy tp pay a modest amount to park there and so it had the ingredients to be a success

Over the years - and after it moved to the north side - it has evolved into a tourist attraction/corporate entertainment facility - most people who go to just watch aircraft still go to the now free south side area that is managed by the National Trust

I am happy to pass your proposal on but I think you need to take note of the above - yes I am sure lots of people on "forums" will think its a good idea - getting them to pay for it is more of a challenge!

So it's the paying for it that's the issue here. I did reply stating that a specialised viewing area is more likely to be used, and also, if it was in a spot which isn't used as a spotting location. Only time will tell I would say.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Paying for it was always going to be the issue, there might be an outside chance of someone paying for a few benches somewhere but when you're planning to build new roads, divert utilities, build a visitor centre etc you are talking a lot of money which has to come from somewhere/someone.

Gordon is right in his email, have you ever been to Sheldon Country Park on a sunny weekend? It's packed! The new bridleway and the small field next to it also has the chance to be just as popular in the future. Would the average family pay £15 or so when they can go to these locations free? As for spotters/photographers they generally move around a bit throughout the day, especially the photographers who move with the sun, and when you add the top of the car park and golf course to the west, the disused railway bridges to the east and the long stay car park to the south most angles are covered.

The only way I can see a viewing area be successful is if it's closer to the action than any other location and with minimal build costs, realistically this means either in the long stay next to the new parallel taxiway or behind the Tristar hotel a few metres from the runway, sadly both are inside the airport perimeter

Just my opinion though and if you can get someone on board I'll support you in anyway I can.

 

[Elmdon80slad]

Perhaps looking forward with all the expansion work at BHX, spotting around the perimeter may become difficult, and this along with hopefully more interesting aircraft visitors, may bring a more sunstancial reason for a dedicated visitor attraction.

 

[Hassaan]

Well, I tried to contact Emirates and they replied saying that there is a specific area on their site for sponsorships. Should I do just that?

Anyone have any ideas of other organisations which I could try and get on board, and specifically what I could write in an email towards them?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Perhaps looking forward with all the expansion work at BHX, spotting around the perimeter may become difficult, and this along with hopefully more interesting aircraft visitors, may bring a more sunstancial reason for a dedicated visitor attraction.

Had a look at the civil service ground today and if it has to be outside the airport boundary then it's probably the best place you're going to get. The only construction would be creating a couple of mounds and if they opened the club up for refreshments at peak times I'm sure it would be used, if not a burger wagon and ice cream van would probably be interested at weekends. The big downside is the A45 diversion has chopped off a decent chunk of their land so the area would be pretty far back from the runway and even further from the terminals with A45 running in between. There are also quite a few trees to be chopped down and Solihull council would have to keep the hedge on the airport perimeter trimmed or it would block the views.

 

[Elmdon80slad]

Perhaps looking forward with all the expansion work at BHX, spotting around the perimeter may become difficult, and this along with hopefully more interesting aircraft visitors, may bring a more sunstancial reason for a dedicated visitor attraction.

Had a look at the civil service ground today and if it has to be outside the airport boundary then it's probably the best place you're going to get. The only construction would be creating a couple of mounds and if they opened the club up for refreshments at peak times I'm sure it would be used, if not a burger wagon and ice cream van would probably be interested at weekends. The big downside is the A45 diversion has chopped off a decent chunk of their land so the area would be pretty far back from the runway and even further from the terminals with A45 running in between. There are also quite a few trees to be chopped down and Solihull council would have to keep the hedge on the airport perimeter trimmed or it would block the views.

I agree that it is the most logical and best location for a viewing facility, and as in my previous posts and drawings, if viewing facilities were built up aka above portacabins etc, and far back away from the road then this should provide enough hight to see above trees/noise bund and give excellent views across the airfield and down the runway approach, It is down pure a simply to an investor or millionair/aviation enthusiast to make this dream a reality.... :dunno:

 

[Ray Finkle]

Well, I tried to contact Emirates and they replied saying that there is a specific area on their site for sponsorships. Should I do just that?

If that's what they say.

Anyone have any ideas of other organisations which I could try and get on board, and specifically what I could write in an email towards them?

Elmdon80slad has contacted some people, maybe he would be kind enough to list who he has contacted already?

It would be useful to have some sort of plan when contacting people, a location, number of people that the area would accommodate, any displays/activities planned, where these will come from and how much they will cost to buy/transport/install/run, details of any catering, staffing, suppliers etc, how much construction would be required and estimated cost, how much you are going to charge, how many people are predicted to pay to use the facility in the first year and projected growth for the next 3-5 years and most importantly what a potential investor gets in return in terms of sponsorship and a timescale in which they can realistically expect a financial return.

Contacting people and saying we want you to sponsor a viewing area but we don't know where or how won't get you very far, if they're stumping up the cash then they'll expect these things to be dealt with.

 

[Elmdon80slad]

Hi all,

Here is the list of all the people I have contacted,

Birmingham airport PR,
Birmingham Council,
Birmingham Parks and Leisure,
Birmigham Chamber of Commerce,
Birmingham Venture Capital,
Sir Albert Bore,
Birmingham Airport Spotting Groups,
Solihull Council,
NEC,
Birmingham International Station,
Virgin Atlantic,
Virgin Media,
Monarch AW,
Ryannair,
Easy jet,
Fly Be,
Duran Duran(Group)
UB40(group)
Ozzy Osbourn,
Gary Numan(pilot/muso)

Perhaps someone could follow these inicial contacts up, the musicians all had brum connections, and Gary Numan was/is a pilot.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Wow, quite a list.

Maybe Jaguar Land Rover, National Express and Cadburys maybe worth a try, all local companies who would like publicity.

 

[Hassaan]

Hi all,

Here is the list of all the people I have contacted,

Birmingham airport PR,
Birmingham Council,
Birmingham Parks and Leisure,
Birmigham Chamber of Commerce,
Birmingham Venture Capital,
Sir Albert Bore,
Birmingham Airport Spotting Groups,
Solihull Council,
NEC,
Birmingham International Station,
Virgin Atlantic,
Virgin Media,
Monarch AW,
Ryannair,
Easy jet,
Fly Be,
Duran Duran(Group)
UB40(group)
Ozzy Osbourn,
Gary Numan(pilot/muso)

Perhaps someone could follow these inicial contacts up, the musicians all had brum connections, and Gary Numan was/is a pilot.

I'll possibly try as well - but what was the general response from the above and how exactly did you approach them?

I'd like to hear their verdict on both of the situations I suggested but mostly the TriStar hotel.

 

[Hassaan]

This is the email I have been using:

I have emailed several organisations, including Birmingham Airport, about this issue but I have had no reply.

I've come here to bring you to the attention of a proposed new spotting area at Birmingham Airport. The idea is that it would be similar to the Aviation Viewing Park at Manchester Airport. The idea is that it'll contain the following:

[*]A fast food outlet, and a dedicated food shop also.
[*]Aircraft shop, similar to the now-defunct aviation experience, with a range of aviation-related products suitable for children through to the serious enthusiast.
[*]Kids play area.
[*]Raised viewing mounds - these could give a clear 180-degree view over the airfield.

I have two, very brief, sketches of the potential situation of the viewing area.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/53ssxy.jpg or http://oi39.tinypic.com/254y5i8.jpg.

I conjured up the idea for the first situation because that area is where spotters have not ever gained access to. The sun is not in a bad position as well for most of the day. The second position is due to become a car park with a Centro bus road alongside it so it would work to become part of a viewing facility. It's within the airport boundary, has easy access from the A45, is currently an unused bit of wasteland and has the sun behind after 11ish so better for the photographers. This would be my preferred location although the A45 will soon be diverted so I'd have the access road from the Elmdon site alongside the Travelodge.

You don't have to be a spotter to use such a facility. It could be used as a fun day out for all the family. As far as entrance goes, the park should be free for visitors who get there by foot, bike or on public transport. Parking could cost £3 an hour and a flat charge of £12 for coaches/visits lasting over 3 hours.

There should be specific opening hours, based on the time of year, a bit like the below which is how the schedule looks like for 2013 at Manchester.

January - February 24th 0800 1600

February 25th - March 30th 0800 1800

March 31st - May 5th 0800 1900

May 6th - May 26th 0800 2000

May27th - July 21st 0800 2100

July 22nd - August 25th 0800 2000

August 26th - September 21st 0800 1900

September 22nd - October 26th 0800 1800

October 27th - December 31st 0800 1600

Anything I could/should change, in order to get a better response?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Nice email but it starts off on a negative "I've emailed several organisations but had no reply", this puts them on the back foot from the start and if it was me would lose my interest, if no one else is replying then why should I bother?

I've changed it slightly, see what you think.

Good morning Sir/Madam,

My team and I would very much like to bring to your attention our proposals for a new and exciting project at Birmingham Airport. Initial plans are underway for the construction of a new viewing facility and we are currently looking for sponsors, investors and/or interested parties to collaborate on this venture and we feel your input would be invaluable. Birmingham Airport currently handles circa 9 million passengers per year with plans in place to significantly increase this number and over recent years hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on infrastructure projects with the most important of these the runway extension which is due to open in April 2014. This will enable potential new long haul flights to reach destinations previously unavailable and in turn provide more 'interesting' aircraft for viewers to see, a recent example being Air India starting a Birmingham-Delhi service on Aug 1st with their new Boeing 787 aircraft.

The concept is similar to the viewing facility at Manchester Airport which now sees over 300,000 visitors per annum and was listed in the top 10 of Greater Manchester's attractions, we aim to grow the Birmingham visitor centre to the same scale and beyond. Initially the area will provide viewing mounds giving a wide angle view of the airfield and runway with excellent photographic opportunities, a restaurant/coffee shop and a children's play area. Long term we plan to add a shop selling aviation/photographical related products and interactive displays ranging from display aircraft to flight school simulators. There will also eventually be the ability to offer packages to schools for day trips and to cater for children's birthday parties. We also have the idea of possibly getting a hotel operator to work alongside us and offer 'spotting weekends' for enthusiasts who live farther afield, where entrance to the viewing area is included in a package with an airport hotel room.

We have two, very brief, outline sketches of potential sites.

The first is within the boundary adjacent to the airport fire station.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/53ssxy.jpg

The second and preferred option is to the rear of the Tristar hotel just off the A45.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/254y5i8.jpg.

The second position is due to become a car park with a Centro bus road alongside it so just a small area would be needed to form the viewing facility and associated car park. The site has easy access from the A45 with the road alongside the Travelodge hotel already there and is currently an unused bit of wasteland keeping construction costs to a minimum. We, however, remain open minded and will look to confirm a location once all interested parties have offered their input.

The project will be aimed at a wide variety of people from serious aviation enthusiasts to families looking for a day out with the kids and revenue will be made from car parking charges and income from the restaurant. Entrance to the facility would be a nominal fee for those arriving on foot. Parking could cost £3 an hour and a flat charge of £12 for coaches/visits lasting over 3 hours, although until the interactive displays are fully operational we may charge slightly less but again all interested parties will have an input. We plan a year round operation with opening times around 6am and closing times varying from 4pm in the winter to 8pm or even 10pm in the height of summer.

We are very excited about the potential of this proposal and hope you share our vision and would like to work further with us to make this a reality. Should you require any further information or would like to discuss the proposals further then please do not hesitate to contact me. I thank you for your kind attention and eagerly await your reply.

Kind regards.

Name
Phone number
email