KLM

[White Heather]

Looks like our Eastern E190 that was poorly is fixed as its positioning in empty from HUY.

 

[752]

How often are these Eastern birds going tech..? Jesus

 

[KARFA]

How often are these Eastern birds going tech..? Jesus

read some of the pravda comments above - apparently you are imagining it all. eastern have always been and continue to be operationally excellent

 

[SierraHotel]

Eastern are becoming very consistent!

 

[White Heather]

The Eastern E190 operated out to AMS this evening after positioning in from HUY snd is due back later. Tomorrow's flights are now shown as Eastern.

Incidentally, this mornings inbound from AMS operated as normal so it was the inbound afternoon flight that was cancelled with the outbound a couple of hours late.

 

[Aviador]

Fire alarm in tower

I see tomorrows 06:20 to AMS is cancelled!

Update, tonights late flight into Leeds from AMS is also cancelled.

I may have mentioned this before but it is not uncommon to have more fire alarm activations during periods of redevelopment and refurbishment. A bit of extra dust from trade tools is all it takes to activate smoke alarms.

 

[White Heather]

I may have mentioned this before but it is not uncommon to have more fire alarm activations during periods of redevelopment and refurbishment. A bit of extra dust from trade tools is all it takes to activate smoke alarms.

Very true.

 

[pug]

read some of the pravda comments above - apparently you are imagining it all. eastern have always been and continue to be operationally excellent

That’s horrifically facetious and to be honest embarrassing. I don’t see anyone claiming what you’re suggesting.

As for how often do E-Jets go tech, there’s a reason engineers will tell you Embraer stands for Every Mechanical Breakage Requires Electrical Reset. They’re not the most reliable unfortunately.

 

[KARFA]

That’s horrifically facetious and to be honest embarrassing. I don’t see anyone claiming what you’re suggesting.

As for how often do E-Jets go tech, there’s a reason engineers will tell you Embraer stands for Every Mechanical Breakage Requires Electrical Reset. They’re not the most reliable unfortunately.

i am not at all embarrassed having read through the last few pages of your posts. you seem to be simultaneously arguing against anyone suggesting eastern are less then reliable, but conceding the embraer is not reliable? it seems eastern's embraer fleet reliability is particularly poor. also quite a few of the cancellations appear to be crewing issues too. so perhaps you might understand where my comment is coming from - you are starting to sound like the official rep for eastern tbh when you keep jumping on anyone criticising eastern.

anyone with any memory will know eastern are a shambles when it comes to operational reliability, quite a few rolled their eyes when they were given this wet lease for klm, and the reality has proved to be entirely predictable.

 

[pug]

i am not at all embarrassed having read through the last few pages of your posts. you seem to be simultaneously arguing against anyone suggesting eastern are less then reliable, but conceding the embraer is not reliable? it seems eastern's embraer fleet reliability is particularly poor. also quite a few of the cancellations appear to be crewing issues too. so perhaps you might understand where my comment is coming from - you are starting to sound like the official rep for eastern tbh when you keep jumping on anyone criticising eastern.

anyone with any memory will know eastern are a shambles when it comes to operational reliability, quite a few rolled their eyes when they were given this wet lease for klm, and the reality has proved to be entirely predictable.

KLM are also suffering issues with the E-jets, indeed isn’t that part of the reason why they’re having to wet lease from other operators?

We’ve already established that, compared to other KLM operations currently, that’s been evidenced by Severn’s analysis but also just a look at the AMS arrivals/departures boards that Eastern are performing no worse that the other KLM SH and KLC ops. So to suggest it’s an Eastern issue is incorrect. Of course some of the problems might be of their making, but there isn’t enough evidence to show that’s defacto the problem. Despite what people on here and it seems elsewhere think, KLM don’t share those views at the moment.

Anyone with a memory seeing Eastern drop their other schedules from LBA might not be exactly impartial. They’d also know that LBA hiked up the fees which, when compounded by a reduction in Easterns core market, made the services uneconomical.

It’s not defending Eastern by any stretch, I know they are chaotic at times but a lot of this is due to the nature of their business. If they weren’t so reactive they wouldn’t have survived. If you think things at places like Loganair are much better I’ve got a bridge to sell you, I know A LOT of people there too.

 

[KARFA]

just proving my point, thank you

 

[pug]

just proving my point, thank you

You’ve proven no point. You are blatantly suggesting that people on here (in this case me) are saying that Eastern are operationally excellent. Despite the fact that myself nor anyone else has said anything of the sort, it doesn’t prove your point at all and with respect you’re coming across as quite petulant.

None of us want Eastern on the route, a point I’ve made clear numerous times. However KLM don’t see it that way because, well, Eastern are on it! To me this suggests that either KLM have no other option at this time, or they are overall happy with the way things are going. Lots of posts on here spinning a narrative that it’s Eastern causing the problem haven’t stood up to scrutiny as evidenced by Severn.

Feel free to keep the Eastern as the pantomime villain, but it’s obviously not constructive. They’ll either carry on or they’ll get chucked off the route, but if things got that bad don’t be surprised if KLM start chopping away at their UK network. Wonder what people would prefer at this point.

 

[Danny]

You’ve proven no point. You are blatantly suggesting that people on here (in this case me) are saying that Eastern are operationally excellent. Despite the fact that myself nor anyone else has said anything of the sort, it doesn’t prove your point at all and with respect you’re coming across as quite petulant.

None of us want Eastern on the route, a point I’ve made clear numerous times. However KLM don’t see it that way because, well, Eastern are on it! To me this suggests that either KLM have no other option at this time, or they are overall happy with the way things are going. Lots of posts on here spinning a narrative that it’s Eastern causing the problem haven’t stood up to scrutiny as evidenced by Severn.

Feel free to keep the Eastern as the pantomime villain, but it’s obviously not constructive. They’ll either carry on or they’ll get chucked off the route, but if things got that bad don’t be surprised if KLM start chopping away at their UK network. Wonder what people would prefer at this point.

I agree from the posts here sometimes it seems some want Eastern to fail but what are the alternatives, to lose the route?

I’ve flown three round trips via Amsterdam with onward connections so far this year with Eastern operating the UK sector each time. We were delayed once but this was due to ATC delays and my connection was delayed by a similar time.

The evidence presented a few pages back of the whole picture shows Eastern operated flights to have similar cancellations and delays to where KLM operate directly. This is what I’ve experienced flying with them too.

I don’t understand the accusations against Pug, I agree with the points he makes.

 

[Finger66]

Emotions are clearly running very high in all quarters and it's because we all actually want this to succeed in whatever guise, but admittedly there is I am sure a certain amount of bias when it comes to T3 and LBA. What is important though is that this does succeed, so here's hoping.

 

[Seasider]

We do want Eastern to be successful - the alternative is no service at all, I believe.

I posted before I completed what I had to say, sorry.
KLM do not have the resources to fulfil the published timetable, hence Eastern or do we think that they will drop other airports to serve LBA?

 

[lbaspotter]

Don’t know what’s going on during the last week of June 2025 (Week Commencing Sun 22nd to Fri 27th) as both the morning Leeds - Amsterdam flights have been rescheduled?

The early 06:20, KL1018 will depart at 08:25 and remains operated by our based Eastern Airways Embraer 190.

Meanwhile the mid-morning rotation has been totally rescheduled to be operated by KLM City Hoppers own Embraer 190 in the afternoon as follows. The KL1019 will arrive at 13:30 instead of 09:30 and the outbound KL1020 service that is normally due out at 10:05 will depart at 14:10.

KLM are operating there temporary revised schedule this week. So expect to see some KLM City Hopper Embraer aircraft appearing on the lunchtime rotation.

 

[Starflyer]

KLM are also suffering issues with the E-jets, indeed isn’t that part of the reason why they’re having to wet lease from other operators?

Anyone with a memory seeing Eastern drop their other schedules from LBA might not be exactly impartial. They’d also know that LBA hiked up the fees which, when compounded by a reduction in Easterns core market, made the services uneconomical.

Eastern pulled their own scheduled services from LBA after a dispute with the airport about non-payment of fees and charges, in which the airport temporarily detained a Jetstream 41 after repeated warnings that the charges needed to be paid. If the airport "hiked up the fees" is the same thing as not paying your bills, it's a new one on me. And LBA is not the only place this happens - Newquay have detained ATR72s on more than one occasion because the bills don't get paid.

The point about KLM is sophistry. KLM have E-jet issues because of the PW1000G engine issues on the Embraer E2s, just as Air Baltic and others have with the same engine on the A220 and Wizz have on their A320 family aircraft. Eastern is operating the first-gen E190 with the CF34 engines which have no such global grounding problems. They might like eating birds too, but that's as far as the commonality of issues goes.

 

[lbaspotter]

And now another tech Eastern Airways Embraer 190, G-CMWI at LBA.

Not sure what they are doing with the later flights this evenings to/from AMS

 

[pug]

Eastern pulled their own scheduled services from LBA after a dispute with the airport about non-payment of fees and charges, in which the airport temporarily detained a Jetstream 41 after repeated warnings that the charges needed to be paid. If the airport "hiked up the fees" is the same thing as not paying your bills, it's a new one on me. And LBA is not the only place this happens - Newquay have detained ATR72s on more than one occasion because the bills don't get paid.

The point about KLM is sophistry. KLM have E-jet issues because of the PW1000G engine issues on the Embraer E2s, just as Air Baltic and others have with the same engine on the A220 and Wizz have on their A320 family aircraft. Eastern is operating the first-gen E190 with the CF34 engines which have no such global grounding problems. They might like eating birds too, but that's as far as the commonality of issues goes.

Eastern have been poor with paying their bills, this I know. But they still operate from NQY, the impression given to those at Eastern was that LBA no longer wanted them there (whether through unreliable payments or not) and consequently they wanted more from Eastern. The line was ‘they don’t want small aircraft at LBA any more’. Whether that’s an accurate reflection of the true relationship breakdown or not I don’t know, but like I’ve said before there’s always two sides to the story.

As for reliability issues; I’ve never suggested that Easterns 190’s suffer common engine troubles, that’s not my understanding. But they are prone to going tech frequently, they were before they took on the KLM contract. Understand it’s quite common for German Airways too, they’re known by engineers as the nickname I posted previously.

KLMs main issues aren’t the engines, they are crewing. KLC isn’t as attractive an outfit to work for as mainline - by all accounts it’s just as toxic a place to work as Eastern. People have gone to mainline or elsewhere leaving crew shortages that aren’t simple to fix. The engine problems may compound this but fundamentally it’s one of insufficient crew to run the services. There may also be a factor of abandoning their UK crew based coming back to haunt them post Brexit.

 

[lbaspotter]

Looks like KLM City Hopper are operating there own aircraft into LBA tomorrow on the Amsterdam route instead of Eastern.

13:30-14:10 KL1019/1020 = E190, PH-EZH
17:00-17:30 KL1023/1024 = E190, PH-EZM
22:50- NS KL1025 = E190, PH-EXF