CityJet

[TheLocalYokel]

CityJet seems the most likely airline to expand short haul European operations at CWL so with that in mind it wouldn't be too much of a blow if they knocked Flybe off the BHD route.

ORK would be better with CityJet than with Aer Lingus Regional for the same reason.

I realise that this is all speculation and that nothing has been said or rumoured officially. CityJet will no doubt want to see how their current routes build up before expanding too quickly at the airport.

 

[marsh.ger]

What will be interesting is to see what will happen in the winter and this will be priority No1 because the decision on the fleet renewal will not be a quick decision.

The routes I have suggested will work year round in exception to the JER flights and I'm unsure what could replace them in the winter.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There seems no obvious route that would work in the winter but not in the summer unless the airline management decides to start up a year-round route this winter.

Geneva is a possibility for a 12 months a year route although I realise that Flybe will be operating this again in the coming winter at once or twice a week in the ski season.

 

[Tinkerman]

Some form of German route could be something that the airport will want CityJet to be looking at also, CWL only has DUS on a saturday, so connecting into one of the main hubs at FRA, MUC etc. would be beneficial. I remember that Baby tried a MUC service, but it was shortlived, as were many of these routes that they tried. With regard to the fleet renewal, I would personally like to see this happen sooner rather than later, as has been indicated by the CEO and Intro. Im guessing ATR's, EMB's and possibly even others could be looked at.

 

[superking]

the saturday german flt is a charter inbound to cdf, if they get any pax to return with is a bonus, its not run to connect with any services in germany.
city jet will look at germany but slots are hard to come by at all the major airports.
at brs bmi have just started a code share withy lufti so with that over there it will im sure will put city jet offering anything to germany on the back burner for a while.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Some form of German route could be something that the airport will want CityJet to be looking at also, CWL only has DUS on a saturday, so connecting into one of the main hubs at FRA, MUC etc. would be beneficial. I remember that Baby tried a MUC service, but it was shortlived, as were many of these routes that they tried. With regard to the fleet renewal, I would personally like to see this happen sooner rather than later, as has been indicated by the CEO and Intro. Im guessing ATR's, EMB's and possibly even others could be looked at.

I doubt that many would disagree with the premises that a route to a major German airport would be hugely beneficial to CWL.

It's likely that bmi baby's aircraft were too large to sustain a regular German service, particularly with no interlining.

The new German owners of CityJet might be in a better position to get this one running. I remember a few years ago before they encountered their well-publicised difficulties that Flybe suggested they would operate some German routes from CWL.

Without interlining though an airline might have a problem in sustaining a service, even with 50-seaters. bmi regional with its 50-seat and 37-seat Embraers has not seen great loads to Germany from Bristol and, as superking points out, bmi r has just announced a code share with Lufthansa enabling its passengers to feed into all this major airline's routes at FRA (and at MUC) from its BRS flights.

If CWL does get a FRA or a MUC with CityJet (the obvious candidate at the moment if anyone is to do it) it will be a significant plus point for it as an airport if such a route (or routes) prove sustainable without interlining.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

[textarea]CityJet cuts losses and closes London office amid revamp
See http://www.independent.ie/business/city ... 37337.html[/textarea]

The above link discusses CityJet's latest situation as it continues to re-establish itself as an independent and hopefully profitable airline following its separation from Air France/KLM.

The main points in the above linked article are:

1. Its London office will close with support operations moved to Dublin.

2. Last year's operating losses more than halved to 17 million euros although revenues declined 32% to 203 million euros.

3. CityJet hopes to conclude agreements with new airline partners soon that will see it feeding their hubs.

4. Its Belgian subsidiary VLM is about to be formally separated from CityJet with VLM focusing on providing wet lease services and charter flights.VLM aircraft are beginning to be painted in a new livery and the separated subsidiary will be responsible for marketing its own capacity but will be used to supplement CityJet capacity on an arm's length basis when required.

5. A fleet renewal programme is expected to be announced soon.

It's not clear how this will affect CWL. The airport is served by VLM aircraft (F 50) albeit as a CityJet service with aircraft in CityJet livery.

VLM and CityJet have never had a common AOC. CityJet's is Irish and VLM's Belgian.

CityJet says that VLM will be used mainly for wet leasing and for charter work but it also says it will be used as a 'capacity supplier' for CityJet 'when required'.

So it could be that the VLM F 50s will continue to serve CWL as capacity suppliers although it seems the aircraft will not be in CityJet livery which might be a negative influence on a market that has still not come to terms fully with CityJet as a new airline for South Wales.

On the other hand the 'mainline' CityJet might be used at CWL (for the first time) although the current fleet of ARJs 85s and the likely replacements (Embraer jets or other similar-sized jets) might be too large for much of the current CWL market.

Although there is mention of a CityJet replacement fleet announcement in the next couple of months it was announced some weeks ago that news of the VLM F 50 replacements would not come until well into next year at the earliest.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Winter 2014-2015

I was reading another forum where a poster said he'd been told by Cardiff Airport that CityJet would not be operating the Glasgow route this winter. There is no booking availability for this route on the CityJet website after October. It's not known whether it will be brought back next summer.

This is a major problem for CWL as GLA is a key route for business and leisure.

This winter it seems CityJet will only operate to EDI (Edinburgh) and ORY (Paris Orly) with the former 2 x daily Mon-Fri and single daily on Sat and Sun, and the latter single daily. The schedule can be operated by one based aircraft.

Currently there are three based aircraft although one is used largely as a back-up as there aren't many times in the day when the schedule calls for three aircraft.

City Jet came onto EDI and GLA last January when Flybe pulled out fairly suddenly. Presumably the CWL management will be looking for a replacement carrier for GLA but one has to wonder what it will do to their relationship with CityJet which it was hoped would develop some sort of route network from the airport.

Only this week it was announced that the draft Wales Assembly Government budget included £3 million for route development at CWL. Perhaps they'd better start splashing that cash pretty quickly.

 

[Aviador]

Blow for Cardiff Airport as airline withdraws its service to Glasgow

No longer a rumour! Cardiff loses Glasgow as Cityjet pulls route.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

No longer a rumour! Cardiff loses Glasgow as Cityjet pulls route.

Yes, it took the local press in Wales several days to catch on. It's been discussed at length in one of the Wales aviation forum web sites for several days with early confirmation via an email from the airline to a member of that forum last weekend that the route was being axed.

The hope seems to be that passengers will use the CityJet EDI flights and travel to/from Glasgow by bus or rail although the EDI route is being reduced in frequency itself this winter.

A poster on a major aviation message board who suggested CityJet would be reducing at CWL before it became generally known, if not pulling out altogether, now says the entire operation (EDI,ORY and summer JER) is under review.

CityJet was the big hope for a route network out of CWL using aircraft that were not too big for a number of routes. That such a core domestic route as GLA has now been dumped by two airlines within ten months (Flybe was the other and that led to CityJet's appearance last January) is clearly a cause for real concern.

Despite the words of the CWL MD the EDI and ORY routes have not performed particularly well so far as loads are concerned. Maybe the yield is fine.

Will any other airline try GLA? It's difficult to see who. Eastern or Loganair or even bmi regional? It seems if anyone is interested the Wales Government will have to to come up with a handsome inducement.

 

[HORN]

It's a small sample but over the course of 40 flights this year (almost invariably departing Cardiff Monday 06:40, returning from GLA Friday 16:20) I have had two seats to myself on all but two occasions. Generally flights have been around 55% full.

It's hard to see how any airline could make this work on a three flights per day basis.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

A warm welcome to Forums4Airports, HORN.

Thank you for that input - it's always good to have some first hand 'evidence'. Although CityJet is not well known in the UK it is difficult to understand why, after nine months of operation on the CWL-GLA route, loads are not higher on a core domestic route. After all, the rail alternative is a non-starter unless someone has oodles of time and is not in a hurry.

We look forward to more contributions from you in the near future.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Stobart Air ATR 42 ACMI on CWL routes

When CityJet hived off the VLM part of the 'group' it was thought by many that the CWL operation would go with VLM as it's VLM F 50s that operate the CWL routes (currently EDI and ORY).

That may well now not be the case with news that the CWL F 50 is to be replaced next month with a Stobart Air ATR 42 under an ACMI arrangement with CityJet.

If the CWL operation is to remain with CityJet rather than going with VLM questions inevitably arise as to the future.

CityJet currently operates ARJ 85 aircraft, none of which are seen on the CWL routes. It's already stated an intention to bring newer 100-seat jet aircraft into its fleet. The obvious question to be asked is whether such aircraft would be too large for the CWL market on business routes likely to be flown.

If fares were to be substantially reduced from the current CityJet levels out of CWL then there must be a good chance of at least a limited network with larger aircraft. Otherwise the future for the CWL-CityJet arrangement looks bleak because if 50-seat aircraft rarely reach 70% monthly load factor (usually nearer 60% and less than this on the GLA which was axed) what chance for 100-seat aircraft?

The only other scenario is for an ACMI arrangement with smaller aircraft to continue indefinitely on the CWL services.

 

[superking]

the loads on the orly are not bad, but still not up to what the airline wants.
sinse gla was dropped, the edi pax has gone up a little, but still not the level to what the airline were looking for.
it seems like a number of pax are useing the easyjet services from brs, due to price and more flexi times.also easy fly to gla which stops transfers from edi to gla.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In terms of business routes which is what the Wales Assembly Government really wants - a Ryanair expansion would bring in more footfall but probably mainly for outbound tourists as the FR routes would be mainly leisure destinations - it really depends how much of the multi million pounds war chest the WAG is reputedly making available for new routes it is prepared to commit to business routes. They are traditionally CWL's Achilles Heel and will need a lot of help if fares are to be set at a level that will attract more punters.

Although the CWL catchment is not huge it's much bigger than the current throughput, and that of the last 5-6 years, would indicate.

The fact that so many people from/to South Wales use BRS backs up this assertion but it's a case of finding the right routes that attract the local populace in sufficient numbers which means decent frequency, timings and reasonable fares.

On commercial grounds that might be a struggle but if a lot of state aid is forthcoming then the airport might be kick started back into life. State aid is a minefield and the WAG knows it will have to be careful but it could be done to some extent.

 

[NOSIGWX]

Cityjet are to end Operations at Cardiff as of June 30th. Not surprisingly the airline has cited the new Flybe operation as the reason for stopping the routes. One in, one out.

 

[Aviador]

The Cardiff airport bosses must be shaking their heads in dismay.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... le-9280018

The Cityjet management is not at all happy saying that the Welsh Government-owned airport is favouring one airline (Flybe) against one already in place (Cityjet) and one which rescued CWL's services when Flybe pulled out less than 18 months ago saying the CWL routes were uneconomic.

Cityjet says it has no problem with competition so long as it's on a level playing surface.

When Cityjet played the white knight at CWL last year the airport and the Welsh aviation scene were very excited, believing that the airline would be the catalyst for a resurgence in fortunes at the the airport. Apart from the EDI route the others (Glasgow, Jersey and Paris Orly) did not enjoy healthy load figures.

It's an open secret that the Welsh Government has invested heavily in the Flybe presence in the hope that their better known name in the UK will attract many more punters. This is probably why they didn't attempt to assist Cityjet grow its network with generous incentives. Cityjet's fares were also high and the reliability of its elderly Fokker 50s problematical at times. Latterly a Stobart ATR 72 has been operating the CWL network on behalf of Cityjet.

Unless devolved APD changes the game (and its devolution is still not certain) the Welsh Government must be hoping that its judgement in riding the Flybe horse and effectively abandoning Cityjet succeeds. If it doesn't it's difficult to see where they would go from there.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Unless devolved APD changes the game (and its devolution is still not certain) the Welsh Government must be hoping that its judgement in riding the Flybe horse and effectively abandoning Cityjet succeeds. If it doesn't it's difficult to see where they would go from there.

It looks to be a very dangerous game CWL are playing, you would think they know what they are doing as Cityjet moving out it can't have come as a surprise.

One has to wonder what happens with Flybe when the money eventually runs out? I think over the last couple of years they've proven that they aren't exactly shy about adding then pulling routes.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It looks to be a very dangerous game CWL are playing, you would think they know what they are doing as Cityjet moving out it can't have come as a surprise.

One has to wonder what happens with Flybe when the money eventually runs out? I think over the last couple of years they've proven that they aren't exactly shy about adding then pulling routes.

The gamble is that Flybe will be well entrenched after three years with loads and yields of a size to keep them there unaided, although as an airport owner there is no reason by the Welsh government can't continue to incentivise as long as they don't take unfair advantage of their dominant position as the state. I'm sure competitors will be watching closely to ensure that state aid rules are not abused.

By then the Welsh Government may have disposed of the airport into the private sector, although their most recent comments that I've read suggest they are in it for the long haul (no pun!) so far as ownership is concerned. However, if CWL does begin to show a lot of promise the private sector may well become interested, albeit there would likely be a lot of public purse debt to be negotiated in any sale.