Chinese Charters

[Ray Finkle]

Yeah I get the impression that they are still along way off a permanent service, especially if focus has shifted from China Southern to Hainan who seem to be in rather detailed talks elsewhere.

Who knows what's going on in the background though, I guess things could change very quickly.

 

[nwoody2001]

So in response to what many of us are asking,.... i.e. what is next with regard to these Chinese charters (i.e. we go from 6 flights in 2015 to 39 flights in 2015 between BHX and PEK), well it appears that Shanghai and Guangzhou are in BHXs sights!!!!

Birmingham Airport Celebrates Extended Chinese Flight Series
Posted 4 July 2015 13:45

The new flights are operating twice weekly on Fridays and Mondays, between July 3, 2015 and August 28, 2015 and will carry almost 4,000 Chinese tourists into the UK on package tours and will contribute a forecasted £19 million to the regional economy. The flights will be operated by a 223-seat Boeing 767-300 configured with 32 Business Class and 191 Economy seats.

Chinese carrier Hainan Airlines has launched an extended programme of charter flights between Beijing’s Capital International Airport and Birmingham International Airport in the UK, building on the success of China Southern Airlines’ flights last year. These operated between July 22, 2014 and August 6, 2014 and are thought to have generated £2.4 million to the Midlands’ economy.

The new flights are operating twice weekly on Fridays and Mondays, between July 3, 2015 and August 28, 2015 and will carry almost 4,000 Chinese tourists into the UK on package tours and will contribute a forecasted £19 million to the regional economy. The flights will be operated by a 223-seat Boeing 767-300 configured with 32 Business Class and 191 Economy seats.

Not only is this a significant market test, it paves the way for future sustainable scheduled flights into Birmingham from China that will support the growth in Chinese visitors as well as the region’s economy, which, if developed into a daily service could deliver an additional £81 million to the UK economy each year, including £62 million per year for the West Midlands. The airport is also hopeful that flight programmes will include departures from Shanghai and Guangzhou to Birmingham in the future.
“Birmingham Airport’s work towards a daily service shows their commitment to creating opportunities and new jobs in the region,” said Secretary of State for Transport Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP.

This is series of flights that will see more than 4,000 Chinese visitors to the region over the summer months through packages offered by Caissa Touristic, one of China’s largest tour operators. These new charter flights will help VisitBritain to achieve its target of £1 billion in Chinese visitor spend within five years – that’s over double the current annual level. “China is a huge tourism opportunity for Britain. Our current share is small in volume but high in value,” said Sally Balcombe, chief executive officer, VisitBritain.
“Chinese visitors already stay longer here than in our European competitor destinations and are high spenders – every 22 additional Chinese visitors we attract supports an additional job in tourism,” she added.

China is currently one of the fastest growing visitor source markets for the UK tourism industry at a rate of 20 per cent year-on-year over the past few years. The size of the market has tripled over the past decade, and it is forecast to continue to grow strongly for the remainder of the decade.

According to statistics from the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), 1,375 passengers made use of the China Southern flights between Birmingham and Beijing in 2014. The data from the regulator shows a total of 973,619 passengers flew on flights between China and the UK last year, the majority between Beijing and London.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/bre ... ht-series/

 

[Ray Finkle]

Yeah PVG and CAN were mentioned when this current series of flights were announced, it sure would be great to see them both on the screens.

What I most want to know is whether we are now any closer at all to a permanent service or are they still trying to get an airlines focus.

I still can't work this quote out:

"All involved in the deal intend that these Hainan flights will build over the coming years, before becoming the first scheduled service between a non-London UK airport and mainland China."

Sounds great but isn't the main player in the deal, i.e. Hainan, already in advanced talks with elsewhere (confirmed as much by the MAN CEO) with a view to start next year? One would assume Mr K knows this and any BHX flight after that would then not be the first outside of London. If it's a case that he's trying to scupper their deal then is it wise to announce so in the press?

I can't work out whether they are closer than we all think and are playing their cards close to their chest or whether they're still miles away and those were just comments to impress the media?

Time will tell I guess.

 

[nwoody2001]

indeed, it does seem a funny situation but that said, this is unlike any situation any uk regional airport has ever experienced. Yes MAN had signed a deal with Hainian but then things changed. We announced our Charters, Cathey launched MAN - Hong Kong, and so from an arm-chair 'aviationist' view, maybe those two factors were reason enough to either cancel or put on hold their launch into MAN. The realist is, whilst this is purely a charter service, BHX is on Hainans Website, timetables and on a number of 3rd part websites so it stands to reason that (for the timebeing atleast) Hainan appear to be more vested in BHX at the moment than MAN.... the question is can this last?!?!?

BHX, the UK Government, Chinese Tour Companies at al all appear to be very supportive and behind this route, and as such, maybe as this is an actual route that has started, maybe this has now become the priority route? I don't know, and yes im biased but its not beyond the realms of possibility. The flights coming from China appear to be pretty full, but we'll know more when the July Pax figure come out next month. the 32 fligths being flown represent nearly 16,000 pax, how many of them will be filled?

what appears to be the case however is that Birmingham is trying VERY hard to market itself as both a destination AND a point of entry into the UK, and the balls has now started to roll. If it works from Beijing, then surely it can also work from other Chinese cities too so long as the tour companies in china are equally onboard. it is then my home this is becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, and the more charter links from more cities BHX can manage to attract, more Chinese tourists become aware of our city and want to fly there, enough that at some point, the routes start to sustain itself as a scheduled service....

just my thoughts....

 

[Jon Dempsey]

I certainly think the Shanghai link is more of a goer as a regular scheduled route due to the motor trade, but who gives a monkey's where the business comes from, it's all business and good for the region.
I suspect Genting/ResortsWorld will be trying to hook up with Caissa with there being both outlet shopping and a casino there.

As far as PK's comments go, all publicity is good publicity - even in the thieves' den!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bVB0bBMRdM&feature=youtu.be

 

[Ray Finkle]

Yeah it's a strange situation. The guy from MAN came out and said that they were announcing Hainan soon, then it all went quiet, he was then recently quoted as saying they are close again. Meanwhile Mr K says that the airline intend to make BHX the first non London airport served yet it won't be for a 'couple of years' and that 'some progress' has been made but it's still 'early days'? :s_dunno

Maybe each boss genuinely believes that they will be first and there are some mind games being played. Personally I think MAN have the edge, even if they have to share a Shanghai route with EDI.

The flights coming from China appear to be pretty full, but we'll know more when the July Pax figure come out next month. the 32 fligths being flown represent nearly 16,000 pax, how many of them will be filled?

There are seventeen days of operation making a total of 34 sectors. With their 763's carrying 233 people it should be 7922 seats in total. The guy off Midlands Today said the flights were 95% full which is excellent if true :smile:

I certainly think the Shanghai link is more of a goer as a regular scheduled route due to the motor trade, but who gives a monkey's where the business comes from, it's all business and good for the region.
I suspect Genting/ResortsWorld will be trying to hook up with Caissa with there being both outlet shopping and a casino there.

Promoting Resorts World is a good point. We're always being told that it's being promoted heavily in China and the wider Far East, getting them in with Caissa and United could be a master stroke.

As far as PK's comments go, all publicity is good publicity - even in the thieves' den!!

That's what worries me, if he's making claims about being the first to get a daily service etc just to get the media spotlight then it's not fair giving people false hope.

 

[Brum X]

Even if Hainan announce BHX tomoorow for a new scheduled route starting in April 2016, does the new UK-China air agreement allow this flight to happen ???


How many slots to Chinese airlines have for flights to the UK and how many are already used up ??????

 

[Brum X]

This is interesting guys, it appears the folks in EDI and GLA think a China link wont happen overnight and is a Tall order.


BHX is mentioned a few times so again shows they are really getting out there and trying to get this one signed and sealed.



http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/1337 ... ith_China/

 

[Ray Finkle]

An interesting read. I think we have to remember that it's not even just UK airports competing, every European city without a Chinese flight will be after one.

Even if Hainan announce BHX tomoorow for a new scheduled route starting in April 2016, does the new UK-China air agreement allow this flight to happen ???


How many slots to Chinese airlines have for flights to the UK and how many are already used up ??????

Off the top of my head the number of weekly flights was raised from 31 up to 40 with 6 cities becoming 9 cities. I haven't kept up with the comings and goings at LHR so not sure how many flights they have.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I also came across this.

I wouldn't get too excited as it's only up until 28th August but in the quest for a permanent flight every little helps :smile:

Hainan Airlines chooses MAEL

Monarch Aircraft Engineering Limited (MAEL), the engineering division of The Monarch Group, announces a line maintenance technical handling agreement with Hainan Airlines.

The agreement, which commenced on 3rd July 2015 is to provide call out support to the Chinese operator’s flying program into Birmingham Airport this summer.

Hainan Airlines, headquartered in Haikou, People's Republic of China will operate twice weekly flights on a Boeing 767-300 aircraft, with 223 seats – 34 in the business cabin and 199 in economy. The flights will operate from Beijing to Birmingham each Friday and Monday to the end of August 2015.

Commenting on this agreement, Neil Kirby, Sales Manager for Monarch Aircraft Engineering said: “We are delighted to be supporting Hainan Airlines new operation into Birmingham and welcome them to our growing customer base at this station.”
7/7/2015

http://www.monarchaircraftengineering.c ... etails/159

 

[Ray Finkle]

A nice new video of the inaugural Hainan flight.

There's some interesting words from Mr K afterwards. I can't work out whether they're genuinely on the path for a permanent flight or if it's just nice words for the cameras?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1396pjMWk2A[/video]

 

[BHXsupporter]

They may regret not adding the year to the film!

 

[jfy1999]

I think it would be too memorable for people to forget! 2015, the year Hainan came to BHX!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Not quite linked to the current series of Chinese flights but it does showcase some of the investment currently seen in Chinatown and the wider South Side area :smile:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaYMqH1IiWQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Ray Finkle]

So the Chinese flights come to an end and it looks to have been another successful series.

Last year we saw three A330's from China Southern and were told it was a 'market test'. All three flights sold out and we heard how impressed all concerned were.

This year we've seen a whole two months of Hainan 767's and Mr K seemed to go back on his words describing last years flights as 'an experiment' and this years flights as a 'market test'. Again, despite the extended period, all flights totally sold out.

So what about the future? I've heard that another extended period next year is being worked on (possibly May-September) and that the airport would obviously like it to become scheduled. We have also heard that flights from Shanghai and Guangzhou may possibly be on the cards.

If this year was a genuine market test then nothing more than totally selling the flights out could have been done, but has it been enough? Will we see an even longer period of charter's in 2016 and then be told again that this is real 'market test' and the 2015 flights were yet another 'experiment' or have the carriers now taken notice?

Over to you Mr K.

 

[nwoody2001]

well with regard to scheduled flights, we have the whole 'bilateral' agreements to contend with, and we know (at the moment at least) BHX is not on those lists, and Manchester is!

consequently, a scheduled flight to BHX will never be a true surprise because will be BHX included on the bilaterals. and even when we are on the bilaterals, that's no garentee we will get flights, with Manchester being the prime example.

In reality, I suspect MAN may beat us to it, though I do think Cathey may have impacted on timeframes. However, if BHX can sustain a full summer season of flights to Beijing and maybe Shanghai and Guangzhou, then I don't think BHX could have done anymore to prove itself, and it will have put itself in a very strong position...

only time will tell, but if 2016 comes along as BHX flies direct to 1,2 or even 3 mainly china destinations directly for a full summer season, then I will be a very happy boy!!!

 

[Brum X]

It is rather sad that we wont be seeing any more Hainan 767s this year, but as you have already said 2016 could be an even bigger year for Chinese flights.

And how about some flights from Japan or South Korea, they surely must be interested in little old England too ????

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'm not sure that airports are specifically mentioned on the bilateral agreements but am happy to stand corrected?

I thought the new bilateral agreement raised the number of weekly flights in each direction from 31 to 40 and allowed for 6 UK cities to be served by Chinese airlines with the number of Chinese cities served by UK airlines rising from 6 up to 9? Obtaining traffic rights from the CAAC is a different story though and the state owned carriers seem to be heavily favoured.


My point is for the past two years Mr K has said the series of flights we've seen have been 'market tests', both of these have totally sold out! Maybe I'm over simplifying things but I'd say market test passed with flying colours!!??? What I would like to know is how many of these 'market tests' are we going to need before we get something permanent and are we actually any closer???

I'm not having a go at BHX, they look to be doing all they can and in the long term teaming up with Caissa etc could prove to be a master stroke. I'm just wondering what the hell the airlines actually want to prove demand can be met? If sold out flights isn't enough then I don't know what is :dunno:

Next year if we see a full season of flights to Beijing with a short season of Shanghai and/or Guangzhou I will also be very, very happy but what about the year after that, and the year after that.....?

I'm sure the BHX team will keep plugging away and after all the hard work they have put in I really hope they get something at the end of it.

And how about some flights from Japan or South Korea, they surely must be interested in little old England too ????

BHX held talks with ANA in 2014 to try and get flights from Tokyo alongside the China Southern flights, obviously it didn't happen but it maybe somthing for the future.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

You do wonder what airlines want sometimes. We all know that full aircraft don't necessarily mean a good yield but had that been the case last year one might think the fares would have been adjusted this year to see how that sat with loads.

Maybe the fares were adjusted, in which case continuing full loads might have convinced those responsible that BHX has a permanent future (as far as permanency can ever be mentioned in the same breath as airline scheduling).

The other possibility I suppose is that BHX has passed all the tests but the airline might still believe the grass is even greener somewhere else, or might be even greener so let's wait a bit longer and see.

I always watch BHX events closely, especially long haul because with this BHX is my local airport given that I always prefer not to use the main London airports whenever possible.

 

[Ray Finkle]

The other possibility I suppose is that BHX has passed all the tests but the airline might still believe the grass is even greener somewhere else, or might be even greener so let's wait a bit longer and see.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Mr K has often said that BHX is not just competing with the likes of EDI and MAN for these flights but also some European heavyweights. This has probably been demonstrated by Hainan stating that there will be no more Euro routes then soon after they announced flights to Prague.

If we'd seen 50% loads I'd have been the first to say it's not good enough. If we'd seen 70-80% loads I'd have fought BHX's corner but still thought things could have been better. What we have seen is 100% loads, every flight BHX has put on has sold out! What more do they need?