Virgin Atlantic

[Dobbo]

Its obviously happening by the sounds of things, but I wonder what has caused it. The RR engine problems have been known for some time, and VS were confident enough to trumpet the extra 40k or so seats in S18 (accepting the fact that these were on offer because the A333 is covering B789 at LHR and the B744 is covering the A333...).

I had also understood DL would cover LHR.

I expect wither DL cannot cover as they assumed, and/or the problems on the RR engines are worse than expected.

Its disappointing, but at least (by the sound of things) they are seeking and have found cover.

 

[ethanegcc]

A stark reminder that, regardless of Virgin's commitment to Manchester, London always has and always will come first.

Premium Economy is a major selling point ex-MAN, and will hand Thomas Cook this market for the period in which this takes place fully. In addition, whether the other cabins on these leased aircraft are near to the current VS standard remains to be seen.

It's also a drop in capacity, and shatters the seemingly concrete 747 expansion plans for next year.

I can't help thinking the leased A330s would be better at Gatwick to focus on leisure routes, leaving Manchester and its mix of business and leisure untouched, but clearly, London takes precedence, and its a sad truth.

 

[David_itl]

This is what they will be doing (from another site)
VS 127 / 128 01 March 2018 to 14 May 2018 Manchester (MAN) to New York (JFK)
VS 109 / 110 02 March 2018 to 31 May 2018 Manchester (MAN) to Atlanta (ATL)
VS 121 / 122 23 May 2018 to 30 May 2018 Manchester (MAN) to Boston (BOS)
VS 125 / 126 22 May 2018 to 29 May 2018 Manchester (MAN) to San Francisco (SFO)
VS 77 / 78 17 May 2018 to 31 May 2018 Manchester (MAN) to Barbados (BGI)
No premium economy on sale

 

[Land23R]

So, less seats instead of more seats for a period (assuming they get the problem sorted to schedule), no premium economy and what about Business Class? If there are J seats, will they be charging normal fares for what could likely be an inferior product?

Do we know yet where the aircraft have been sourced?

 

[David_itl]

Meant to ex-Air Berlin

 

[Land23R]

Sounds as if the issue will continue beyond 31 May based on this extract from a VS document on another site.
"Initially, the aircraft will not have Premium Economy but we’ll look to retrofit our Premium Economy product onto aircraft later in 2018"

Good news for TCX? Well, except for their Air Tanker passengers.

 

[Dobbo]

It certainly sounds like it will be a semi ongoing state of affairs. Sounded like the aircraft will be VS branded, and may be indistinguishable from the real thing by the back end of next year.

I assume VS will keep a couple of B744s up here, how many A333s were based here last year?

 

[Little G]

“To support this we intend to add four A330-200 aircraft to our fleet - they will be Virgin Atlantic Aircraft”
That plus quotes about fitting PE product makes this look like a long term solution.
GDS loaded on 10th Dec so all will become apparent soon. Flying UC on 4th Apri to ATL. Virgin and Delta showing UC sold out. Original seat map shows 16 seats booked

 

[Land23R]

If it is the Air Berlin A332's that VS are getting, a comparison of the respective configurations is quite interesting.

VS A333 (version 2)
Upper Class 31 seats (78/79.5")
Premium Econ. 48 seats (38")
Economy 185 seats (29/30") I assume some have extra leg room.
Total capacity 264 seats

Air Berlin (if the info. is up to date)
Business 19 seats (60")
XL economy 44 seats (36")
Economy 227 seats (30")
Total capacity 290 seats

More seats on AB than the normal A333 but significantly less than the B747s VS were going to use in S18 for JFK & ATL. Don't know about IFE.

Was it originally planned as 4 x B747s and 1 A333 for MAN or 3 and 2? Looks as if we may only be retaining 1 x B747, presumably for a daily MCO.

 

[User001]

It was down as 3 B744 and 2 A333. This swap is only until May initially. Where we would have seen 2 B744 and 2 A333 anyway, as SFO/BOS don’t restart until the end of May.

MAN is suposedly keeping its 2 B744 (for MCO and LAS),so to get 4 A332 in place of 1 B744 and 2 A333 means that the spare A332 could be used to bolster back capacity on JFK and ATL in the form of 2nd daily flights.

 

[Land23R]

I know from my own (limited) experiences of PE on VS that it is very popular as you say User. Whether VS do intend to keep the A332s longer and introduce PE remains to be seen.
But my impression was that Upper Class also did well from MAN. Do you know if that's right? In terms of space up front, the AB a/c appear a serious downgrade and with far less seats than the A333 on VS. So if there was reasonable demand for UC on routes such as JFK and SFO, it doesn't augur well for the AB flights. I wonder if some pax may be tempted to LHR for the VS services or even BA (not even the choice of AA now from MAN).

I suppose the only positive is that we don't seem to be losing routes or frequencies at this stage.

 

[User001]

The email being sent to flying club members states that ‘PE will be retrofitted to these aircraft later in 2018’. So, the actual date of that remains to be seen but also shows clear intent of keeping these aircraft longer than May.

In time, I would imagine that the aircraft will be fitted to full VS specs so, I wouldn’t worry at this stage.

 

[Jerry]

I saw a post somewhere saying that in October/November Virgin will lease 4 Delta 767s. Think it was on the other forum. So maybe they'll add PE for the A332 then?

 

[User001]

The Delta B767 lease started in October and I saw currently ongoing, I think there are still 2 operating.

The way I think it will happen:

The 4 A332 come online for their 1st March start. The 2 MAN based A333 head to LHR on that day and thus free up the 2 Delta B767 to go home.

The B787 then get their fixes sorted up until June. That then frees up the usual Virgin aircraft to come back to MAN temporarily. The 4 A332 then go off to get the full ‘VS treatment’, and then come back to MAN perhaps Aug/Sept, staying permanently and enable the year round ops to SFO/LAS/BOS we are seeing in GDS.

 

[Dobbo]

There is certainly the possibility that this affords a major opportunity for VS to entrench their MAN offering, albeit with some short term disruption.

In other, probably related news, it sounds like VS has reactivated an A346.

 

[Dobbo]

Probably worth trying to draw together what we know, or think we know, about VS's current situation at MAN:

• Known, but worse than expected, issues with the B789 fleet has left VS with a capacity shortage at LHR.
• To preserve the LHR network (understandable) the current A333 (and possibly A346/B744) are being drafted in.
• To preserve MAN, VS are leasing in 4x A332 from ex Air Berlin. These may be in the fleet for some time and are due to be retrofitted with VS products (It will be interesting to see how premium heavy they are).
• The A332 are intended for MAN alone, obviously this may change.
• Although A332 is smaller than A333, the extra airframe give flexibility to add capacity. This may be increments on the existing routes (JFK, SFO) or new routes (DEL, LAX, MIA).
• VS will still base 2x B744 for LAS and MCO. The A332 are aimed at JFK, ATL, SFO, BOS, BGI (possibly new routes).
• As the A332 remain in fleet over the winter, there is a good chance SFO, BOS go year round, in addition to ATL and JFK remaining at daily over the winter.

Overall, a positive story, if the above is correct.

I imagine the A333 may return when the A35K come online and the B789 are fixed. Given the issues experiences by ANA and ANZ on their B789, it might be a blessing in disguise that VS were able to get in first on the Air Berlin airframes. And it keeps the growth at MAN going.

 

[Jerry]

Although A332 is smaller than A333, the extra airframe give flexibility to add capacity. This may be increments on the existing routes (JFK, SFO) or new routes (DEL, LAX, MIA).

Delta Airlines operate the A332 and have a cabin of 34 Business, 32 Premium Economy and 168 Economy. So maybe Virgin will go for a similar layout? Especially if they are using them on the likes of JFK, SFO and BOS.

 

[Dobbo]

Delta Airlines operate the A332 and have a cabin of 34 Business, 32 Premium Economy and 168 Economy. So maybe Virgin will go for a similar layout? Especially if they are using them on the likes of JFK, SFO and BOS.

I think that's reasonable, albeit that this is a "MAN Fleet" might mean it can be tailored to the market more. Whether that's the same proportions of J, PE, Y, as DL, or the VS A333/B789 we wait and see!

 

[ethanegcc]

Virgin's A332 seat maps have now been loaded in the Air Berlin configuration:
View attachment 6994

 

[Dobbo]

Have we posted this before?

https://www.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/travel-information/travel-news.html#accordParent1