Random Stuff!

[rollo]

I take your point but I assume that the powers that be have taken the view that Cardiff,Nottingham and Southampton are regional centre's. Nottingham for Derby and Leicester, Southampton for Bournemouth and Poole whilst Bristol gets lumped in with Cardiff and then it comes down to facilities etc.
All regions complain about southeast bias with regard to government funding (taxpayer funding actually ) just look at the remarks on the MAN and BHX forums both areas are seeing many large devlopments and projects going ahead but I still lag miles behind London.

Personally while I quite like twenty twenty cricket I much prefer the longer game with its twists and turns and actually prefer it over football these days probably an age thing

 

[Jerry]

I think all of those grounds as well are test cricket grounds as well so maybe that was a factor and with a Cardiff franchise they may well feel that the South West is covered.

 

[kraktoa]

Doesnt help that the city is split in 4 counties or authorities. And that its ground is actually Gloucester Cricket club

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I take your point but I assume that the powers that be have taken the view that Cardiff,Nottingham and Southampton are regional centre's. Nottingham for Derby and Leicester, Southampton for Bournemouth and Poole whilst Bristol gets lumped in with Cardiff and then it comes down to facilities etc.
All regions complain about southeast bias with regard to government funding (taxpayer funding actually ) just look at the remarks on the MAN and BHX forums both areas are seeing many large devlopments and projects going ahead but I still lag miles behind London.

Personally while I quite like twenty twenty cricket I much prefer the longer game with its twists and turns and actually prefer it over football these days probably an age thing

I can't agree that Bristol is not a regional centre. It's easily the largest city, the largest conurbation and the de facto capital of the entire government South West region which stretches from Gloucestershire to Cornwall and east to Wiltshire and Dorset with a population in excess of five million - in fact it's the largest UK city south of Birmingham and west of London -

If Manchester and Birmingham lag behind London then Bristol does more so. It hasn't any trams or metro - doesn't even have an electrified railway and is now not getting one. The rest of the South West was never in the frame for rail electrification yet the Midlands and the North are looking at HS2. We'd be delighted to have ordinary electric trains down here.

It's ironic given that Bristol is the only provincial city that pays more into the UK Exchequer each year than it gets back. It's seen by governments of all political persuasions as something of a cash cow and is expected to largely fend for itself. When, for example, the South West Regional Development Agency was in being one of its members pointed out in some frustration that Cardiff was receiving eight times the amount of public funding than Bristol was getting, indirectly partly paid for by Bristol because of the Exchequer imbalance.

I think all of those grounds as well are test cricket grounds as well so maybe that was a factor and with a Cardiff franchise they may well feel that the South West is covered.

But these aren't test matches. The Gloucestershire CCC ground has held one-day internationals. It always sells out its temporary 16,000 capacity for such games because people from all over the South West flock to it to see one of the rare international sporting events held in the region. It has permanent floodlights and can raise its capacity for such matches to that of Cardiff and Southampton. It has been given the 'consolation prize' of at least one one-day international in each of the seasons from 2020-2024 as has Durham that also missed out on the 20:20 franchise.

Cricket needs youngsters to take an interest and like it or not 20:20 cricket seems to be what interests the young more than 'proper' cricket as I would describe it. Without a team to support in the South West a lot of kids there will have no allegiance with which to foster their interest.

The women's competition which is already established does have a South West team called Western Storm which plays its home matches at both Bristol and Taunton. When the men's 20:20 franchise was first mooted it was thought that one team would cover the areas of Somerset, Gloucestershire and Glamorgan county cricket clubs and play their home matches around the county grounds of these counties.

It's a great shame that such a cricket loving area has been disenfranchised in this way. Cricket followers in the South West aren't likely to become big fans of a Cardiff-based team any more than Welsh followers would support one in Bristol or Taunton. Would they be content if the franchise had gone to Bristol with the thought that it would cover South Wales?

Doesnt help that the city is split in counties or authorities. And that its ground is actually Gloucester Cricket club

In the sense that there is no single local authority to press the case, I agree. The Bristol region is a mess in the way that its local government is organised. Until the early 60s the Bristol boundary expanded at regular intervals to include the ever growing urban sprawl around its edges into Gloucestershire and Somerset. The sprawl has grown ever larger in the past 50 years but the Bristol boundary has remained the same. The result is that a separate 'city' of at least 200,000 people called South Gloucestershire is now physically attached to Bristol's (pop 450,000) northern and eastern boundaries (you can't see the join when travelling) with bits of urban North Somerset and Bath & North East Somerset also physically attached to Bristol. Had Bristol's boundary continued to expand to take in the continuing urban sprawl as it did until the early 1960s the current city population would be closing in on 700,000.

As for Gloucestershire CCC being based in Bristol, which is not even in Gloucestershire, it's because when Gloucestershire CCC made its HQ there the area was in Gloucestershire, but many, many years ago the area of Bishopston (home of Glos CCC) was absorbed into Bristol in one of the many pre-1960s city boundary expansions.

Cricket-wise Bristol has two county teams that people support, usually one or the other. Many people in the city, like me, are primarily Somerset CCC followers (the county used to play some matches in Bristol - at various grounds such as Knowle, Brislington and the old Imperial Ground) although I also watch Gloucestershire at times (and support them when I do), and in cricket organisational terms the area of Bristol south of the River Avon is regarded as part of Somerset and north as part of Gloucestershire.

 

[Jerry]

When, for example, the South West Regional Development Agency was in being one of its members pointed out in some frustration that Cardiff was receiving eight times the amount of public funding than Bristol was getting, indirectly partly paid for by Bristol because of the Exchequer imbalance.

I'm not actually sure Bristol pays for any money that goes to Cardiff. Wales as a country does pay a lot of tax to the UK Exchequer as well as things like water that goes to England without any formal tax on it so is essentially 'taken' from Wales. With the natural resources in Wales it could be a case of Wales being held back by the UK government. I think Bristol and the South West suffers from the same but to a greater degree because it doesn't have a regional government that can speak up for itself and have powers to raise taxes or finances to pay for things like Metro's.

Would they be content if the franchise had gone to Bristol with the thought that it would cover South Wales?

Well i have read that their are calls for Wales to split off and create it's own cricket board and it's own international team, whether that would've bared it from one of these franchises i do not know. In the end it is the England and Wales Cricket Board so they need to cover Wales and though there would've been protests i've no doubt many cricket fans in the area would go and see a Bristol based team. I think the problem is the lack of teams, with only 8? it's hard to please everyone, 10 might have been a better number.

 

[rollo]

Blooming heck Lockal Yokel as a fellow cricket lover I was pretty much agreeing with you just pointng out what I thought the cricket authorities thinking might be in choosing Cardiff over Bristol I never inferred that Bristol was not a regional centre it obviously is as is Cardiff as well as being a capital city. It's pretty obvious that six of the chosen venues were nailed on leaving a difficult choice for the remaining two.

I am a avid Warwickshire follower, I live in Worcestershire and enjoy visits to watch both of them play when I can.

So far as government (tax payer funded) spending goes the richest area London gets the most and the poorest areas seem to get the least e.g. The northeast believe per head but it's not really an argument I wish to get into.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm not actually sure Bristol pays for any money that goes to Cardiff. Wales as a country does pay a lot of tax to the UK Exchequer as well as things like water that goes to England without any formal tax on it so is essentially 'taken' from Wales. With the natural resources in Wales it could be a case of Wales being held back by the UK government. I think Bristol and the South West suffers from the same but to a greater degree because it doesn't have a regional government that can speak up for itself and have powers to raise taxes or finances to pay for things like Metro's.

I was quoting the words of the member of the former South West Regional Development Agency member about indirectly supporting Wales. In a general sense there is some disquiet amongst some people in Bristol because Bristol is the only English city apart from London that pays more into the Exchequer than it gets out. Everywhere else receives either broadly what they pay in or in some cases more than they pay in.

So in one respect the surplus the government gets from Bristol helps to give a little extra to what the government describes as deprived areas of the country - which of course is not the same thing as the Scottish or Welsh governments' block grant from Westminster. I think if other wealthy English cities also contributed a bit more than they get back the disquiet felt in Bristol would be lessened. The question posed in local business and local government circles is, "Why just Bristol?"

Well i have read that their are calls for Wales to split off and create it's own cricket board and it's own international team, whether that would've bared it from one of these franchises i do not know. In the end it is the England and Wales Cricket Board so they need to cover Wales and though there would've been protests i've no doubt many cricket fans in the area would go and see a Bristol based team. I think the problem is the lack of teams, with only 8? it's hard to please everyone, 10 might have been a better number.

I have long thought that the England cricket team should be named United Kingdom or perhaps Great Britain. Since the year dot Welsh, Scottish, Irish as well as English players have been eligible to play and have done. Also a number of Australians, South Africans, Indians and others have played for England, usually based on their parents' eligibility or residence qualifications. Welshman Tony Lewis captained England as have Scots such as Douglas Jardine (the 'Bodyline' tour of Australia in the 1930s) and Mike Denness. The great Glamorgan CCC patriarch and Welsh rugby international, Wilf Wooller, was an England cricket selector for six years from the mid 1950s. Republic of Ireland cricketer Eoin Morgan is England's current one-day cricket captain. South African Tony Greig (another sad early death - a couple of years ago) captained England in the 1970s until he was axed following his association with the Packer camp.

Ireland has very recently been elevated to test status. I don't know if it's like rugby where the team represents the whole of Ireland, or as in football where the Republic and Northern Ireland play as separate countries.

English international cricket is governed by the England and Wales Cricket Board so there is a valid argument that the cricket team should not be just called England. I don't know if there is sufficient momentum in Wales to follow Ireland into test level status.

Blooming heck Lockal Yokel as a fellow cricket lover I was pretty much agreeing with you just pointng out what I thought the cricket authorities thinking might be in choosing Cardiff over Bristol I never inferred that Bristol was not a regional centre it obviously is as is Cardiff as well as being a capital city. It's pretty obvious that six of the chosen venues were nailed on leaving a difficult choice for the remaining two.

I am a avid Warwickshire follower, I live in Worcestershire and enjoy visits to watch both of them play when I can.

So far as government (tax payer funded) spending goes the richest area London gets the most and the poorest areas seem to get the least e.g. The northeast believe per head but it's not really an argument I wish to get into.

Sincere apologies. I misinterpreted or misread (either is possible at my age).

I used to watch Somerset many times a season in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s when I was a member of the club - much less so these days. Many highlights as you can imagine especially in the Golden Era of Viv Richards (I saw his first two centuries for Somerset - at Bristol v Glos and shortly afterwards at Bath v Yorkshire), Ian Botham and Joel Garner (what a delightful man - always had time for everyone), with more than useful support from the likes of Brian Rose, Vic Marks, Pete 'Dasher' Denning (sadly he died in his 50s) and Colin 'Herbie' Dredge (sounds vaguely Dickensian) who was one of many cricketing brothers from Frome and also a decent semi-pro footballer.

Warwickshire and Worcestershire I saw many times when they were playing Somerset. One game I remember was at Glastonbury, one of many venues that Somerset would play at around the county in those days. Many of the wickets were of dubious quality. (In 1953 Bertie Buse, of whom John Arlott described as having a run-up to bowl like a butler bringing in the tea, was awarded a benefit and chose the three-day county championship match against Lancashire at Bath as his benefit match. Unfortunately, the Bath wicket was its usual capricious self and Somerset were all out for 55. Lancs made about 160 before Somerset collapsed again to lose by an innings and the benefit match was over in one day).

Back to Glastonbury. It was in 1972, one of Warwickshire's county championship-winning years. The ground was little more than a field with rudimentary temporary stands for spectators. Somerset had batted on the Saturday and made about 300. Sunday was for the 40-over John Player League in those days so the second day of the county championship match was on the Monday. I watched Monday's play. I nearly didn't because my fuel gauge was playing up and I ran out of petrol en route to the match. Fortunately, I had a can and there was a nearby petrol station.

Warwickshire had the great Alvin Kallicharan in the side that day. It didn't help because on what was little more than a village pitch the visitors were bowled out twice in the day to lose by an innings. To rub salt into the wound, one of the principal tormentors was Tommy Cartwright who made a tremendous impression in his time at Somerset. These days the ECB pitch inspector would have a season ticket to visit Somerset's 'out' grounds if they were still using them.

Somerset were so cash-strapped then that they were up to all the tricks. In the 1950s when they had a permanent position at the bottom of the county championship they were playing Surrey (champions seven years in row) at Weston-super-Mare. Surrey only had to get a few runs to win in the fourth innings and Somerset obtained the Surrey captain's agreement to use an old ball in order to save a few quid. Between the wars they had a player called Tom Lowrie. Birth qualifications were applied strictly at that time. Lowrie was properly registered at Lords as 'born Wellington' (it's a small Somerset town near Taunton for those who might not be aware). What Somerset failed to make clear to Lords was that Lowrie was actually born in Wellington, New Zealand.

Sorry if I've overdone the reminiscence.

 

[rollo]

No problem, sometimes I do not make myself too clear and then again when I do can be a bit too blunt according to my wife.

My earliest memories of Warwickshire and Somerset go back to the 1960's when Somerset had Fred Rumsey as opening bowler who was a rather large chap and a bit of a character who I think played for England.
Warwickshires openers were Neil Horner and Bob Barber the latter also played for England and could only play one way which was attack the bowling from the start which he did on this occasion cracking a few fours and I can remember Rumsey having a bit of a hissy fit before getting his wicket all good natured though.

It's amazing what you can recall from way back but have no idea where you've put the car keys five minutes ago!

 

[superking]

I watched ray Illingworth down at Glastonbury and remember the spectators giving him lots of stick.
I always liked to watch tom cartwright a master class bowler. Lots of games and different things I could go on about,but I think would jam up computer with it.Always good to think back to the good days as all the somerset players were household names and they all played to win with passion.
A comment I must make is one of the housing estates built in worle <Weston super mare> all the roads were named after the somerset cricket teams of years gone by.

 

[kraktoa]

TLY you missed out Sunny Gavaskar

 

[rollo]

TLY you missed out Sunny Gavaskar

Was he any good or just average?
Lol

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I watched ray Illingworth down at Glastonbury and remember the spectators giving him lots of stick.
I always liked to watch tom cartwright a master class bowler. Lots of games and different things I could go on about,but I think would jam up computer with it.Always good to think back to the good days as all the somerset players were household names and they all played to win with passion.
A comment I must make is one of the housing estates built in worle <Weston super mare> all the roads were named after the somerset cricket teams of years gone by.

Tom Cartwright was a magnificent county bowler, so consistent. He wasn't a bad late middle order batsman either. What a loss to Warwickshire even though he was reaching senior status in his career when he moved to Somerset. If some of the younger bowlers didn't learn from him they should have been shown the door.

I loved Weston's Clarence Park. It was so basic but what character. I was there only this week making a nostalgic visit. All the Weston festivals of the past came back to me. I went to school at Weston and used to attend the festivals in the 1950s. Somerset then had great pros like Kenny Palmer, Peter Wight (both later test umpires and Peter also had a cricket school at Bath where I took our son when he was around 12), Aussie Colin McCool and Midlander Brian Lobb, a big, blond fast bowler. He was like a windmill as he approached his delivery stride. His arms seem to be a continual whirl and it appeared that he and certainly not the batsman could never be sure in which revolution of the arm the ball would be released. Many years later when he was around 60 Brian turned up at Knowle CC in Bristol (one of Somerset's cricket grounds before WW2) playing for Glastonbury's Sunday team bowling slow off breaks.

TLY you missed out Sunny Gavaskar

Sunny was one of Somerset's many overseas players down the years. He only played for one season - 1980 - replacing Viv and Joel who were touring England that summer with the West Indies.

Think of the overseas players who have represented Somerset down the years.

Bill Alley the Australian - forceful batsman to put it mildly and nagging medium pace bowler - wasn't an overseas player per se. He had been a middleweight boxer and was undefeated after 28 fights but injury forced him to give up the gloves. He joined Somerset in 1957 at the age of 38 after a career in the northern cricket leagues. He played for the county until he was 49 and is the last player ever to score 3,000 first class runs in an English season - in 1961 when he was 42! Only eight others have performed this feat and because of the far fewer first-class matches these days no-one else will. Bill was another of the former Somerset players who became a first-class umpire, in his case a test umpire as well. Bill spent the rest of his days living near Taunton. I think he ran a chicken farm at one point.

Other great names include Greg Chappell as teenager. He scored the first ever Sunday League century when playing for Somerset. It was in 1968 or 1969, I forget which, at Brislington CC ground in Bristol against Surrey. BBC2 used to televise the whole of one of the 40-overs per side Sunday League matches each week and by good luck they picked that one on that weekend.

Then there were Martin Crowe from New Zealand, Ozzie Steve Waugh, Sunny, Viv and Joel already mentioned, Mushtaq Ahmed (Pakistan), South Africans Jimmy Cook and Graeme Smith (SA captain for a long time), Ozzies Ricky Pontin and Justin Langer and the latest was Dean Elgar of South Africa. I know I've missed some other great names but the memory is not what it once was. These days of course players are parachuted into county clubs for very short periods, often for the 20:20 series and Somerset fans have had the pleasure of seeing West Indian Chris Gayle turn out for them on a couple of very short season 20:20 visits.

Was he any good or just average?
Lol

Looking at Wisden, I find that in his only season at Somerset (1980) Sunny didn't have a spectacular record. In the County Championship he played in 14 matches, scored 664 runs at an average of 33.20. His highest score for the county in first-class cricket was 155 not out against Yorkshire at Weston-super-Mare, a game I saw.

The first game I saw him play for Somerset was at Taunton in one of the group matches of the 55-over a side Benson and Hedges Cup. It was against Middlesex and in a high scoring match Somerset lost by one run. Sunny scored a 100 and we were all amazed to see him hit three sixes. In test matches he was so correct and rarely hit the ball off the ground, let alone over the boundary on the full. Taunton does have short straight boundaries (6' 8 inches tall Joel Garner regularly top edged shots over the slips for six) but Sunny's sixes that day would have been a six on most grounds.

To conclude this section of Somerset nostalgia, I must mention a benefit match staged at Knowle CC, Bristol in the early 1980s. The format was a single wicket competition with Viv Richards and Ian Botham competing against each other against a string of local club bowlers. The result was sheer mayhem. Viv hit 32 sixes and Ian 38. The Knowle ground has a large playing area for a club ground but it is in a residential area surrounded by houses, a main road (A37) and a row of shops. Shane Warne played some games for Knowle as a young man on Sundays when not required by neighbouring club Bristol Imperial for whom he was brought over for the season.

Anyway, back to the the single wicket competition. A house bedroom window was smashed by a huge straight six from Botham and Richards bettered that with a low skimming six across the ground's boundary wall, over the busy adjacent road and straight through a dress shop plate glass window. Roof tiles of nearby houses and on the club pavilion were dislodged and one or two cars parked in neighbouring streets found themselves the recipient of cricket ball damage. At one point the police arrived and asked the batsmen not to hit the ball so hard. I don't think they paid much heed. I've never seen such consistent hitting like it and I recorded some of the action on the cine film I used to take in those pre-video camera days.

 

[superking]

Some good names mentioned in the posting. Lots of what you say will never happen again and yes it stirred many thoughts to the years past. Jim you should have messaged me when in Weston and we could have gone for a cup of tea in Clarence park café.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Rail non-electrification

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/suburban-trains-more-important-bristol-1103544
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-commuters-breathing-dirty-air-1226852

Further evidence in these recent local paper reports that electrification between Bristol and east of Bath isn't going to happen under the Conservatives. Transport secretary Grayling said he would rather spend money on improving Bristol's suburban rail network than spending it on the missing link. Knowing his record Bristol will get nothing more in its suburban programme than was already in the system before electrification was curtailed. The original 'deferment' of the electrification has now turned into a cancellation which a lot of people, including me, said at the time would be the case.

Despite the government's pledge to rid the railways of polluting diesel traction by 2040 they conveniently exclude the bi-mode units from this pledge. They say the reason is that the bi-modes when running under diesel traction won't be as polluting as the current diesels. That might or might not be the case bit they will still pollute whilst electric won't. And what will they do west of Bristol to Cornwall where there never was any plan for electrification? Will they find bi-modes to operate on the branch lines there and around the small Bristol suburban network for that matter?

Grayling and his cohorts also say that the b-modes would not go any faster between Bristol and east of Bath under electric power than under diesel. The acceleration would be greater under electric and using that arugument there are other stretches that are to be electrified between Paddington and Cardiff where the top speed cannot be reached, but electric power is not being withdrawn from those sections.

I read elsewhere on F4A today that Liverpool Lime Street is to get a £340 million upgrade and expansion. Bristol Temple Meads has been waiting for many years for a more modest £100 million upgrade but that is as far away as ever.

Hammond the chancellor conceded again recently that Bristol is the only city outside London that pays more into Exchequer than it receives yet the city is invariably at the end of the queue when it comes to government funding.

Corbyn says he will reinstate the cancelled electrification if Labour gains power. It's easy to say such things when you're not in power and I always believe that the word of the average politician is about as reliable as the England footballers in a penalty shoot-out.

 

[Jerry]

Just seen a post on Bristol Airport Spotting that Dan Snyder the owner of the Washington Redskins American football team flew into Bristol today on his private jet.
Does anyone know if he has any connection with the area ?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Just seen a post on Bristol Airport Spotting that Dan Snyder the owner of the Washington Redskins American football team flew into Bristol today on his private jet.
Does anyone know if he has any connection with the area ?

I'd never heard of him before your post. When I read the name of the team I wondered, with Native Americans being the required term these days for 'Indians', how they got away with it. A quick perusal of the Net reveals that there is a degree of controversy about the name in the USA.

As for Mr Snyder, perhaps he's looking to buy Bristol City FC at a knock-down price after yet another woeful performance today - CWL beating BRS this time.

 

[Severn]

The aircraft arrived into BRS from Abu Dhabi and was only on the ground for about 15 minutes. It then departed to Chester, spent a few hours there before heading to AMS and straight onto Rotterdam..... Go figure?!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Bristol Arena

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/finally-know-location-bristol-arena-1312134

1st May this year is the latest date when the mayor of Bristol will announce the location of the Bristol Arena. The contenders are (1) the Temple site next to Temple Meads (the former site of the Bath Road locomotive depot although there might not be many of us who remember that) on which many millions of pounds of money has already been spent on access infrastructure including a multi-million pound bridge, currently dubbed The Bridge To Nowhere and (2) a latecomer in the form of the Brabazon Hangar on the edge of the former Filton airfield.

Bristol was going to have an arena at Temple by 2009 but things just lapsed. When the previous elected mayor, Independent George Ferguson, took office he promised to have the arena open by 2017. That didn't happen either and costs escalated. The current Labour mayor and his cohorts have gone back to the drawing board. They don't like the huge cost of buiding the arena at a time when the city council is struggling to meet its budget.

YTL the owners of the Filton site say they will build an arena at no cost to the council and it would be bigger than Temple: 16,000 all-seater as against 12,000 all-seater. However, they would expect both Bristol and South Gloucestershire councils to pay the huge cost of transport infrastructure and connectivity.

The Brabazon Hangar lies within the city boundary but everything else around this area (a switfly developing new town in all but name) is in the unitary authority of South Gloucestershire. Brabazon would avoid traffic congestion in central areas but Temple would add much more to the city economy and be more of an 'event' location than somewher on the edge of the city, albeit near a major motorway 'crossroads'.

If Brabazon prevails Temple could become of the site of an international convention centre which would cost much less to build there than an arena.

Alongside all this, billionaire Bristol Sport (Bristol City FC, Bristol Rugby and other sporting connections) owner, Stephen Lansdown, wants to buid a 3,000 all-seater stadium at Ashton near Bristol City FC ground to become the home of another of his sports teams, Bristol Flyers basketball, who currently play at the small WISE arena (capacity 750) near Bristol Parkway station.

So long as the planners don't get in his way I would bet that Mr Lansdown's arena will be up and running before either Temple or Brabazon.

 

[superking]

Helicopters.Friday march 9th
I see 2 helicopters from RAF squadron 286 chinook display paid a visit to Bristol port along with 2 French air force helicopters for training. This is not the first time helicopters have visited Bristol port for training purposes.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Helicopters.Friday march 9th
I see 2 helicopters from RAF squadron 286 chinook display paid a visit to Bristol port along with 2 French air force helicopters for training. This is not the first time helicopters have visited Bristol port for training purposes.

Was that in the paper?