Emirates

[User001]

The DXB figures for June are:

BHX 35867 (divided by 120 sectors for 2 daily) is 299 per flight

Therefore, out of 51240 seats, that's a load factor of 70%

MAN is 60942 (divided by 180 sectors for 3 daily) is 338 per flight

Therefore, out of 83640 seats, that's a load factor of 72%

So, MAN is higher on all counts, total load, pax per flight and load factor.....

 

[jfy1999]

Woody said BHX's load factor was 80% back in May (compared to 73% for MAN), and that was what made me assume that load factors would be roughly the same for June.

I forgot that this is the off season though.

 

[nwoody2001]

indeed jfy1999, you cant assume one month is the same as the next... and it would appear that this month is a casing point...

that said, this was the case in May and was (to my knowledge) the first time it occurred, but that fact it did occur at all is a great testament to the growth of the route out of BHX. as of next week, we'll have the same number of flights a day on the route as MAN with the only thing separating us being aircraft capacity....

to those in the know of MAN, how many of the MAN rotations are A380s??? am I right in thinking that as soon as we get our 3rd daily service, you will get your 2nd daily A380???

 

[Ray Finkle]

MAN has been 2x A380 since Feb.

From what I've heard First has sold quite well from BHX. Whether it's done well enough to become permanent is yet to be seen.

 

[User001]

As said, MAN has been 2 daily A380 since February, and is highly likely to have a 3rd A380 from December 1st.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all, some one I know who works up at the airport recently was talking to one of the Emirates pilots, who asked, are they going to start bringing in the A380 at all yet, reply was no, asked why, pilot replied, because runway is still to short even with extension, all pilots have complained about this, the extension is short by 300 metres...andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

Whilst I don't doubt the person who told you this said so in good faith the runway is fine for an A380 to get to Dubai. Our runway is now 2m longer than Manchester's and they manage fine from there.

The NATS charts show a TORA of 3003m for both runways at BHX. One of MAN's is 3014m with the other 2897m so I don't see an issue?

The only reason that Emirates aren't using an A380 to BHX is because there isn't a business case for it, yet.

 

[IanFarquharson]

I am pretty confident BHX will see A388 ops in 6-12 months time

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Whilst I don't doubt the person who told you this said so in good faith the runway is fine for an A380 to get to Dubai. Our runway is now 2m longer than Manchester's and they manage fine from there.

The NATS charts show a TORA of 3003m for both runways at BHX. One of MAN's is 3014m with the other 2897m so I don't see an issue?

Thanks for your post, Ray.
Very interesting.
Whilst I don't see that there is any issue at BHX, other factors can also affect the take off run required, such as any local obstacles to be cleared or the elevation of the runway.

I am pretty confident BHX will see A388 ops in 6-12 months time

Ian, great if you're right.
If that does happen and Manchester get a third daily A388, it's going to considerably restrict belly hold cargo (I believe that no cargo space is being sold on the new BHX service, in order to carry cargo that can't be accommodated on the MAN A388's). Possibly resulting in a dedicated cargo service to one of the stations.

Kevin

 

[Ray Finkle]

I am pretty confident BHX will see A388 ops in 6-12 months time

Me too :smile:

Thanks for your post, Ray.
Very interesting.
Whilst I don't see that there is any issue at BHX, other factors can also affect the take off run required, such as any local obstacles to be cleared or the elevation of the runway.
Kevin

Quite right and something I forgot to mention :smile:

On the NATS charts there are two obstacles mentioned on the 33/APPROACH 15/TAKE-OFF and both are pylons. I believe many of the trees at that end were cut back when the runway was extended.


It just sounded to me like one of these urban legends that BHX seems so good at. A few months ago it was suggested that the runway extension wasn't able to take the weight of the A380 and had to be redone. This all stemmed from a NOTAM which prevented an A380 using a certain taxiway for a period of time because the surrounding earthworks needed time to settle and let the grass grow.

Now it seems people are idly saying that the runway extension isn't long enough which clearly isn't true. As far as I'm aware an A380 only going to Dubai was capable off the runway before it was extended?

Emirates have long had BHX down as a potential alternative for an A380, the only reason they bought the tug all those years ago was because Emirates requested it. BHX have just spent alot of money upgrading their RFF equipment and are now fully categorised for regular A380 ops. The new pier was built with the end two stands capable of accepting A380's and associated taxiway works were done to make the turns easier. Even Mr K in a recent interview said A380 ops would happen when Emirates were ready.

Only at BHX eh?

 

[jfy1999]

Why were the trees cut down? I don't think they could have been a potential hazard to aircraft.

User001 pointed out the high premium configuration of the A380, so we'll either have to prove ourselves and fill the seats (which we are certainly capable of doing) or persuade Emirates to use spare A380s without having First open to passengers (which they already do with the 777s).

Both of those are possibilities. But first we'll need to prove that we can fill three daily 777s...

 

[Ray Finkle]

Those trees alongside the A45 were cut down for the new Centro access road. There were also some trees out towards Catherine-De-Barnes that were cut back.

...the high premium configuration of the A380, so we'll either have to prove ourselves and fill the seats (which we are certainly capable of doing) or persuade Emirates to use spare A380s without having First open to passengers (which they already do with the 777s).

Both of those are possibilities. But first we'll need to prove that we can fill three daily 777s...

Don't forget Emirates now have two class A380's :smile:

We shall see what happens

 

[CL44]

I may sound like a heretic here but keep the A380's away from BHX please!!!

I like the fact that I can get tonnage away on either the 038 or the 040 without any restrictions. If we get an A380 replacing one (or more) of these flights then the capacity available to me goes down by a magnitude. The only way around this (as has been previously mentioned) is by getting a freighter service into either here or MAN (and if that does happen I cannot see it coming here to be perfectly honest). Now I understand that this may not be the most popular of stance on this forum but PLEASE keep those 380's away from here!!!

 

[jfy1999]

I am currently happy with three 777s if it means more cargo...

And whenever an Emirates flight descends on BHX, Arrivals is completely bursting with passengers, practically all with DXB tags on their luggage. I found that out last Monday when I was there. That's with an average of just under 300 passengers per flight, imagine the crowds from a full A380...

Three 777s a day looks fine for BHX right now, and don't worry, I don't think our discussion will have any effect on Emirates decisions

 

[Brummiegem]

jfy 1999 as long as you bear in mind this is the low season.
It is not unusual for the 2 class B77W to have 400 plus on board,both in and out,as well as the cargo.
I agree with CL44 regarding the A380.However can anyone confirm or is it a myth that at BHX and at some other smaller airports when an A380 is moving in or out nothing else can move.
Something to do with it interfering with the various ATC systems while it is mobile.
Something I do know,when a heavy turns off the runway,anything following it in using the ILS system can experience fluctuations on the said system.Is this similar to the A380 moving around the apron??

 

[User001]

There used to be an issue at MAN where the A380 was known to interfere with the ILS at the 23L end when entering the runway, but, the issue was solved with some new software update.

The A380 always used to have to be escorted by a follow me veichle, but again, that practice has now stopped.

Lastly, due to where the A380 parks, thankfully there has never been any ground stops here, the only time in recent memory that has had to happen at MAN was the first time we accepted the AN225. The ground stop was not needed the 2nd time, although movements to T2 and the other side of C pier at T1 were stopped while it parked up, the rest of T1 and T3 were unaffected.

 

[CL44]

Can't say as I have heard of any restrictions like this (not to say that they don't exist). I have a strange feeling that give it another 6 months and at least one of our flights will revert to an A380. I was at a function to celebrate the third flight and the underlying feeling was that it was going to happen but no dates had been confirmed at that stage. I will admit to speaking to someone from EK and pleading for them NOT to send one in (he laughed when I said it) so I really think it is a case of when and not if.

 

[Ray Finkle]

This is the NATS Local Traffic Regs for A380 ops at BHX although it's now out of date (8th Jan) as BHX is fully RFF categorised. It says only one A380 can move around at a time but not that anything else can't move. There was an issue with large aircraft temporarily disrupting the ILS but they were both replaced when the runway was extended so you would hope that problem is now solved.

Depending on which runway is in use there would need to be some of fuel farm access road closed off, the barriers are already there.

(h) A380 Aircraft Operations:

(i) Operators of A380 aircraft may designate Birmingham as a nominated diversionary aerodrome subject to prior
agreement with the Head of Airfield Operations Tel +44 (0)121-767 7384 and assessment of facilities at Birmingham
by the Airline. The use of Birmingham as an alternate for A380 operations is also subject to UK CAA approval on an
individual airline basis.

(ii) Maximum of 5 A380s can be handled at any time (subject to stand availability).

(iii) Only one A380 can move around the aerodrome at any time. If 2 or more aircraft are handled at the same time, one
must be on stand at all times whilst the other is moving or stationary on Taxiway Tango / Taxilane Uniform

(iv) Follow-me will be provided for all movements.

(v) Departing aircraft must use the CAT III runway holds at all times, irrespective of weather conditions.

(vi) Diverting A380 aircraft will be provided with RFF Category 9 in accordance with UK CAA CAP 168 Chapter 8.

 

[IanFarquharson]

A6-ENX on EK37 tonight - the low density machines have started

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think Gatwick is going all 380 soon (3 x daily). As someone who uses Emirates to 'Down Under' I much prefer the B 777.

Addendum

Sorry Ray. I've just read another post and you posted this information earlier today.