Random Stuff!!

[Jerry]

If Wales were independent there would have been no furlough payments, Mr Drakeford admitted this.

The consequences would have been horrendous. Wales and Scotland need the economic clout of the union.

I wouldn't go off what Drakeford says when it comes to an independent Wales. He's a Unionist, he recently equated pro indy supporter's to be no different to right wing extremists in a Radio 4 interview.
An independent Wales would have the fiscal powers like any other country to borrow money for a Furlough scheme. Just like the UK has, just like Ireland and other European countries.

 

[Jerry]

yes i agree, Wales would struggle to have raised the furlough money. They basically would of had to borrow it at higher interest rates than what the Current UK government can.

They would've issued bond's. Wales and Scotland are perfectly capable of managing their own finances. They don't need England to do it for them.

 

[Jerry]

currently i think If votes were held Wales would vote no with scotland voting yes.

Currently yes I don't see Wales voting for independence but support is growing and Scotland leaving the union will change the dynamics as it would be back to being part of England again no more UK and who's to say England would still want to be in a union with Wales then. People mention the effects of independence on Scotland and Wales but forget to mention especially Scottish independence its effects on England.

 

[Jerry]

6 council's now under local lockdown or willbe soon in southern Wales. Bridgend, Newport, Caerphilly, Rhondda cynon taff, merthyr and Blaenau gwent.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Currently yes I don't see Wales voting for independence but support is growing and Scotland leaving the union will change the dynamics as it would be back to being part of England again no more UK and who's to say England would still want to be in a union with Wales then. People mention the effects of independence on Scotland and Wales but forget to mention especially Scottish independence its effects on England.

i think the view taken on Scottish independence from england is that England effectively bank rolls scotland as it does to Wales and NI. I am not sure of any specifics sorry but that’s the general opinion.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

They would've issued bond's. Wales and Scotland are perfectly capable of managing their own finances. They don't need England to do it for them.

Issued bonds to who?

and at no doubt, at an interest rate Of a second tier country.

 

[Jerry]

Issued bonds to who?

and at no doubt, at an interest rate Of a second tier country.

Investors, including banks, insurers, pension funds and private individuals.
As for second tier country I can't see why Welsh bond's wouldn't be attractive. Wales is a western European country on the edge one of the biggest trading blocks in the world.

It's a peaceful country with no natural enemies and it's economy yes needs more developing but its a country with lot's of natural resources. Wales isn't a second tier country by any imagination. I don't see why it wouldn't be a good investment. People buy bonds from the Faroe Islands so why not Wales?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

6 council's now under local lockdown or willbe soon in southern Wales. Bridgend, Newport, Caerphilly, Rhondda cynon taff, merthyr and Blaenau gwent.

One of the conditions of the lockdown - certainly as far as Newport is concerned (according to the local paper) - is this:

Cannot enter or leave the borough council area without a "reasonable excuse". This includes work, if people are unable to work from home, as well as making a compassionate visit to a loved one or to provide care.

That suggests that someone booked with, say, TUI to Turkey for a holiday would not be allowed to leave Newport to go to the airport. I wonder how they would fare if the flight still operated. I doubt that TUI would refund the cost of the holiday although they might offer to transfer the booking to a future date. Probably be unlikely to have travel insurance that would cover the eventuality.

 

[Jerry]

Hopefully for the TUI customers they'll let change to different dates without too much of an extra charge.
On a personal note I'm supposed to be going to see my sister in Leeds on Thursday with my parents. I'm returning on Friday because of work and was going to book the train tonight. I think I'll leave it a few days now just in case Cardiff gets put into lockdown as well!

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Investors, including banks, insurers, pension funds and private individuals.
As for second tier country I can't see why Welsh bond's wouldn't be attractive. Wales is a western European country on the edge one of the biggest trading blocks in the world.

It's a peaceful country with no natural enemies and it's economy yes needs more developing but its a country with lot's of natural resources. Wales isn't a second tier country by any imagination. I don't see why it wouldn't be a good investment. People buy bonds from the Faroe Islands so why not Wales?

From someone who now works in an investment function i know the bonds would be sold at a much higher interest rate than what could be raised at a UK level.

Tesco would be able to borrow millions at a lower interest rate than a small business borrowing £20,000.

it’s all very well and good having these natural resources but they are useless unless we are extracting them and doing something with them.

wales has no real high value industries.

one of the best ways to make a success of An independent wales is to be a tax haven.

 

[Jerry]

Tesco would be able to borrow millions at a lower interest rate than a small business borrowing £20,000.

I'm not a financial expert but the borrowing by a country is completely different to that of a business like tesco or a small business and they would be borrowing differently as well.

it’s all very well and good having these natural resources but they are useless unless we are extracting them and doing something with them

Which we would be able to do as an independent country. We would be able to invest in things like tidal energy over a long term to benefit Wales and develop the country. Being an independent country would allow Wales to invest in itself to create wealth for it's citizens and to make their lives better and the future generations and it's about exploiting the potential of the country for it's people.

one of the best ways to make a success of An independent wales is to be a tax haven.

I've heard people say that but personally i don't think that would be the future for the country, obviously it would be a government policy but i personally i don't think it would be a way Wales would go and would need to go as i don't think it would be beneficial to the country, tax wise my own opinion would be having a fair system in place where private individuals and companies contribute to the country proportionally.

In the end being an independent country is normal and wanting it is about having belief in your country and it's people and i believe that is growing stronger in Wales, that lack of confidence which is exampled perfectly by many of the things welsh unionists especially say, like the too poor and too small or the you get all your money from England you'll be bankrupt on day one, that lack of confidence in Wales and its people and what they can achieve in general especially when it comes to running our own affairs is slowly subsisiding and confidence is growing. The reality is there are lots of small countries around the world that manage fine. Iceland a country with a population smaller than Cardiff was a founding member of NATO, Malta achieved independence in 1964 and was told many of the same things as Wales, it has a tourism industry that is smaller than Wales and imports all of it's electricity and they haven't looked back. New Zealand has a tax revenue lower per head than Wales, is 2500 miles from it's nearest trading partner and is considered a key ally of not just the UK but the USA and are managing fine and of course there is Ireland who seem to be quite happy and doing quite well as not part of the UK, they've developed their economy so now only 10% of their exports go to the UK and there food industry stands to benefit from Brexit. And lets not forget Estonia a country of 1.5 million people who don't seem to want to be rejoining russia any time soon and are a key member of NATO and apparently very good at cyber warfare and have built or are still building a railway right across the country with some very nice looking brand new trains. Wales would be no different to them and many other small countries around the world.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

The ways country borrow is quite similar to businesses - Emerging market debt is at a higher interest rate than the developed world.

You’re forgetting an Independent Wales would have a competitor on her doorstop - England. Why have Wales when you can have england.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Bridgend Ford closing on Friday after 40 years.

Complete failure and incompetence by Welsh Government. Coupled with the adjacent Ineos factory that is also going nowhere!

 

[Jerry]

The ways country borrow is quite similar to businesses - Emerging market debt is at a higher interest rate than the developed world.

You’re forgetting an Independent Wales would have a competitor on her doorstop - England. Why have Wales when you can have england.

Wales is already part of the developed world. It's not a third world country.
Competitor for what? For loans? For investment? For companies to base? They already are. The playing field would be leveled up quite a bit as at the moment England is in control. APD not being devolved is an example of that but also England would be a big trading partner and hopefully an ally in defence and foreign policy depending on the policy of eihter government.

Bridgend Ford closing on Friday after 40 years.

Complete failure and incompetence by Welsh Government. Coupled with the adjacent Ineos factory that is also going nowhere!

How is it the WG fault that a global corporation is pulling the plug? And another one got a better offer from a company in the EU? What could be considered their fault is the constant chasing of global corporations instead of investing in Welsh business that contributes towards Welsh wealth rather than foreign wealth.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Wales is already part of the developed world. It's not a third world country.
Competitor for what? For loans? For investment? For companies to base? They already are. The playing field would be leveled up quite a bit as at the moment England is in control. APD not being devolved is an example of that but also England would be a big trading partner and hopefully an ally in defence and foreign policy depending on the policy of eihter government.

How is it the WG fault that a global corporation is pulling the plug? And another one got a better offer from a company in the EU? What could be considered their fault is the constant chasing of global corporations instead of investing in Welsh business that contributes towards Welsh wealth rather than foreign wealth.

it happens all the time. It’s been happening since Lucky Goldstar in newport in the
90’s. Circuit of Wales come to mind too? Just completely failed projects all the time, no wonder Welsh government is a laughing stock. Ineos was a British company which pulled out partially because of the M4 relief road which the Welsh Government cancelled themselves. So yes, it’s there own fault.

one thing they are good at though, is investing in themselves by employing more AM’s and giving themselves pay rises.

 

[geoff]

Surely the Welsh Government cannot be blamed for the cancelled Wylfa Newydd power station on Anglesey, or the failure of the Uk government to support the Tidal Lagoon in Swansea Bay, or failing to support the electrification of the railway line between Cardiff and Swansea, the autonomous attitude that is taken by Westminister on occasions such as these, and then spend over 100billion on projects such as HS2, or Crossrail in London, is driving the UK apart, I have friends in Newcastle who feel completely, isolated and forgotten about by London and the South East of England, This present Government is encouraging the Independent movement in Wales and Scotland, prior to this week The First Minister of Wales had only spoken briefly to Boris Johnson once and that was in May.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Surely the Welsh Government cannot be blamed for the cancelled Wylfa Newydd power station on Anglesey, or the failure of the Uk government to support the Tidal Lagoon in Swansea Bay, or failing to support the electrification of the railway line between Cardiff and Swansea, the autonomous attitude that is taken by Westminister on occasions such as these, and then spend over 100billion on projects such as HS2, or Crossrail in London, is driving the UK apart, I have friends in Newcastle who feel completely, isolated and forgotten about by London and the South East of England, This present Government is encouraging the Independent movement in Wales and Scotland, prior to this week The First Minister of Wales had only spoken briefly to Boris Johnson once and that was in May.

You are correct about the peripheral regions of England being left out as well. The South West government region is the largest in area in the whole of England with a population in excess of five million yet it has no electric railways (with none in prospect) apart other those towns that happen to be on the South Wales main line from/to Paddington. Brunel's main line between Bristol TM and Paddington via Bath was supposed to be electrified with many millions spent on preparation but the Westminster Government pulled the plug to save a sum that will barely amount to petty cash for HS2.

So despite the UK government haranguing Bristol and Bath councils for not doing enough to rid these cities of diesel car pollution it's quite happy for Bristol, Bath, Plymouth, Exeter and other towns and cities in the region to have to put up with diesel traction on the railways indefinitely. Hammond, the chancellor at the time the plug was pulled, told local politicians and business to 'get over it' when they complained despite accepting that Bristol is the only English city outside London (I'm not sure about cities in the rest of the UK) that gets less from the Exchequer than it contributes. In other words, it helps to subsidise government spending in other areas.

So as far as rail electrification is concerned Cardiff has come out of it much better than Bristol. Perhaps the influence of the WG did play a part. At least Wales has a government to fight its corner. Peripheral regions of England have nothing other than local authorities and back bench MPs for the most part.

 

[Jerry]

it happens all the time. It’s been happening since Lucky Goldstar in newport in the
90’s. Circuit of Wales come to mind too? Just completely failed projects all the time, no wonder Welsh government is a laughing stock. Ineos was a British company which pulled out partially because of the M4 relief road which the Welsh Government cancelled themselves. So yes, it’s there own fault.

Actually INEOS pulled out because they were offered an existing plant in France by Mercedes instead of the Bridgend plant and a plant in Portugal saving themselves 10s of millions of pounds and that the fact that all their operation would be inside of the EU. M4 relief road had nothing to do with and lets face it post COVID would be needed with more people working from home and commuting less.
Circuit of Wales was a private venture that if i remember correctly wanted the WG to be full guarantor, guaranteed they'd be criticised if that had gone belly up and they'd be liable.
What they can be criticised for is having and even before the WG, is a strategy that focuses more big projects that attract jobs from big corporations from abroad that gets them good PR than investing in Welsh businesses.

 

[Jerry]

Peripheral regions of England have nothing other than local authorities and back bench MPs for the most part.

Wasn't there a referendum for English regions to have devolved assemblies/parliaments?

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Actually INEOS pulled out because they were offered an existing plant in France by Mercedes instead of the Bridgend plant and a plant in Portugal saving themselves 10s of millions of pounds and that the fact that all their operation would be inside of the EU. M4 relief road had nothing to do with and lets face it post COVID would be needed with more people working from home and commuting less.
Circuit of Wales was a private venture that if i remember correctly wanted the WG to be full guarantor, guaranteed they'd be criticised if that had gone belly up and they'd be liable.
What they can be criticised for is having and even before the WG, is a strategy that focuses more big projects that attract jobs from big corporations from abroad that gets them good PR than investing in Welsh businesses.

it Was reported multiple times by the media. The Ineos decision was influenced by the M4 relief road scrapping.

working from home won’t fix the tunnels. There’s only so far that can take you.

welsh government seemed to have screwed up every project they have a hand in. The thing is though Jerry, they don’t invest in local business, Stupid business rates and dying high streets are examples of that.