Route Development & Rumours

[TM3]

I'm going to be contraversial here but given that just about any location can be reached by a small widebody now, plus the fact that the A321XLR can reach pretty much all of the US, is it worth the cost of adapting the runway to deal with it?

 

[Kevin Farnell]

There is no problem with the runway. If there is an issue, then it will be the turns on the taxiways. As I said, if an airline (such as EK) wanted to run regular services with a B779X, then I'm sure BHX would do any work required to accommodate them.

 

[Timberwolf]

Timberwolf are you sure about 779X being able to use BHX as the length is longer than A340-600 which I thought cound not use BHX

It's not down to the length it's down to the wheel gauge spacing.

It will all depend on the wheelbase of the aircraft (i.e. the distance from the nose gear to the main undercarriage and to some extent the distance between the main gear), not the actual length of the aircraft, If the B779X is incompatible with BHX and an airline wanted to run regular services (say daily), I have no doubt that BHX would do the work required to facilitate it (most likely by widening turns by adding fillets).

You beat me to it Kevin

The 777-300ER that Emirates use into BHX is about the same length as A346 so its not the length of the plane, but the gauge and turning circle.

As Kevin says if the 779X does have an issue, BHX would just widen the taxiway turn fillets to accommodate.

As we had no A346 likely to do schedules no business case for the airport to do that work for them previously.

 

[mullion]

Couldn`t think of that as it must be much the same otherwise it will be tail heavy.
Boeing still don`t have a firm timetable other that will start delivery sometime 2025.

 

[Timberwolf]

I'm going to be contraversial here but given that just about any location can be reached by a small widebody now, plus the fact that the A321XLR can reach pretty much all of the US, is it worth the cost of adapting the runway to deal with it?

Well everything going east from BHX past Turkey long haul are widebodies.

That's for a reason, huge demand from BHX going that way.

Going west we even get an Air Transat narrowbody A321N.

So the money long haul from Birmingham in passengers and belly cargo is eastbound.So yes if required they would add the corner fillets of the taxiways.

They don't need to touch the actual runway as that's long enough for nearly all long haul routes.They if required just need to slightly widen the taxiways at the edges called fillets .

 

[TM3]

I think your point regarding cargo is an important one as typically on these forums people talk about passenger numbers, which only tells half the story.

Taiwanese EVA Air's (as owned by Evergreen logistics which you commonly see on shipping containers) business model is to make 50% of their revenue from cargo on every flight.

The right cargo contracts therefore make can make a big difference to the success of a new route. You might have thought the at Birmingham, sitting in a large industrial conurbation would have a lot of demand, inbound and outbound for cargo, but this information is less in the public eye than passenger information,

 

[Timberwolf]

I think your point regarding cargo is an important one as typically on these forums people talk about passenger numbers, which only tells half the story.

Taiwanese EVA Air's (as owned by Evergreen logistics which you commonly see on shipping containers) business model is to make 50% of their revenue from cargo on every flight.

The right cargo contracts therefore make can make a big difference to the success of a new route. You might have thought the at Birmingham, sitting in a large industrial conurbation would have a lot of demand, inbound and outbound for cargo, but this information is less in the public eye than passenger information,

I think cargo carrying has changed over the years . Gone are the narrowbodied DC-8s B707s on long haul which couldn't take much in their bellies.Which meant more dedicated freighters.

Now you can get a lot in bellies of 787s,A330, A350 77Ws which reduces some cargo only demand especially with multiple frequencies to the States from LHR with these planes

I don't see BHX becoming a big freight hub with the likes of STN and EMA and LHR covering most of the big contracts.

Smaller operations will likely grow and we do extremely well to have a 3 weekly B747F service to HKG currently with MAGMA and LH cargo.

Expect to see plenty more ad hoc freight flts to this year.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

I think cargo carrying has changed over the years . Gone are the narrowbodied DC-8s B707s on long haul which couldn't take much in their bellies.Which meant more dedicated freighters.

Now you can get a lot in bellies of 787s,A330, A350 77Ws which reduces some cargo only demand especially with multiple frequencies to the States from LHR with these planes

I don't see BHX becoming a big freight hub with the likes of STN and EMA and LHR covering most of the big contracts.

I agree mostly with what you are saying, and that BHX will never rival EMA or STN as a freight hub. Having said that, I've been delighted to see the growth in dedicated freight operations at BHX, whether that be ATR's or B747's. I hope these services continue to grow.

This, however confuses me -

we do extremely well to have a 3 weekly B747F service to HKG currently with MAGMA and LH cargo.

I don't recall there being a 3 weekly B747 service to (should that be from?) HKG. 2 weekly at most and, usually once weekly. And, are you saying that the LH cargo service is linked to the HKG service?

 

[KARFA]

I'm going to be contraversial here but given that just about any location can be reached by a small widebody now, plus the fact that the A321XLR can reach pretty much all of the US, is it worth the cost of adapting the runway to deal with it?

Not really. East coast and maybe ORD/DFW/ATL from London are ok. Beyond that you are not going to have a reliable operation as the usual headwinds heading west will cause issues with reduced effective range. The theoretical range on paper is not the same as the range you can base planning a year-round route.

 

[Timberwolf]

I agree mostly with what you are saying, and that BHX will never rival EMA or STN as a freight hub. Having said that, I've been delighted to see the growth in dedicated freight operations at BHX, whether that be ATR's or B747's. I hope these services continue to grow.

This, however confuses me -

I don't recall there being a 3 weekly B747 service to (should that be from?) HKG. 2 weekly at most and, usually once weekly. And, are you saying that the LH cargo service is linked to the HKG service?

Hi Kevin Sorry yes your right it is supposed to be twice a week not 3 times.Some of the changing days when TF-WFF went tech confused things.

No I was talking generally LH cargo completely seperate and no connection with HKG.

 

[Birmingham Aviation]

Are we expecting any more route announcements for summer 2024?

I know PIA have slots for bhx and also IPS have slots .Just wondering if we can expect any others

 

[Aviador]

Are we expecting any more route announcements for summer 2024?

I know PIA have slots for bhx and also IPS have slots .Just wondering if we can expect any others

Is PIA still banned from European airspace or has that that ended.

 

[Matt995]

Is PIA still banned from European airspace or has that that ended.

Yes PIA is still banned from Europe & the UK, I don't expect to see them at BHX this summer

 

[Birmingham Aviation]

so now PIA is not returning.

Could we expect any other routes or new airlines at bhx?

 

[rollo]

PIA given their European wide ban realiticly were never an option and anyway as I've posted previously surely BHX are better served by its exsiting operators through their Middle Eastern hubs and its good to see Turkish and Saudi adding capacity next summer, just need Qatar and Emirates to come to the party.

 

[Scania1800]

so now PIA is not returning.

Could we expect any other routes or new airlines at bhx?

Nobody has said PIA is not returning, until the EASA and UK Authorities completed their audits and checks with PIA and the company licensing, they should be back in no time.

 

[gulftraveller]

EASA will have a meeting in May to look at lifting the ban. Thereafter, the problem is that PIA has serious financial problems. Several aircraft, including 777s have been scrapped. It means that, even if the EASA outcome is positive, PIA will only reintroduce routes gradually and with low frequency. The plan was MAN followed later by CDG and LHR. But this may have changed.

 

[lbaspotter]

Southwind Airlines along with the charter company Holiday Best have taken off sale all flights that were due to operate from late March up until late May on its new UK summer 24 routes from Antalya to BHX, BRS, EDI, EMA, GLA, LBA, LPL, STN, MAN, NCL & Dalaman to STN.

They are due to operate Antalya - Birmingham 2x weekly (Thu & Sun) now starting May 26th

 

[Matt995]

EASA will have a meeting in May to look at lifting the ban. Thereafter, the problem is that PIA has serious financial problems. Several aircraft, including 777s have been scrapped. It means that, even if the EASA outcome is positive, PIA will only reintroduce routes gradually and with low frequency. The plan was MAN followed later by CDG and LHR. But this may have changed.

pretty certain PIA have not scrapped any 777s yet, a few are currently stored, and one 772 AP-BGL was damaged by the military during a training exercise and is unlikely ever to re-enter service again.

 

[Birmingham Aviation]

Have Turkmenistan or Austrian put slots in for this summer?