Flybe

[Seasider]

Considering that KLM serve HUY and LBA and MME you have to wonder why there is no DSA service? Do Flybe codeshare with KLM on the DSA service?
The problem at DSA is the same as CWL the aircraft is to big for many of the routes. Reality is that the E195's should be operating out of MAN and BHX with an E175 and a Q400 operating out of DSA.

But FlyBe needed special deals to fly the EMB190, so they went to Airports that would give them these deals. To offer business flights you need to offer day return facilities. It appears that it hasn't worked with CDG.

 

[Aviador]

But FlyBe needed special deals to fly the EMB190, so they went to Airports that would give them these deals. To offer business flights you need to offer day return facilities. It appears that it hasn't worked with CDG.

It didn't work at LBA either despite neighboring Manchester airport handling several daily flights to CDG. I'm not sure how many flights operate from there now but the choice is phenomenal so it's no wonder twice daily hasn't worked for Flybe at DSA.

 

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

On 7th October I posed a question on the relative passenger-appeal of the E195 against the Q400. There have been no replies on here, so I have continued my research elsewhere.
Having flown on the KLM E190, I know that the type has high passenger-appeal. The 2x2 seating arrangement is particularly attractive (also attractive to KLM as they do not have to blank-out seats in business class to provide extra room as they do on the F70.).
I have never flown on a Dash8 Q400, so I found this comment on the LSE Flybe share chat forum.
Posted by 're-flection'. 'The Dash is a lousy aircraft to travel on. Poor leg and arm room, hideously noisy, rattles like a wind chime and generally just a poor passenger experience. I flew two sectors last week and the state of the seats and upholstery were dreadful'.
I think this poster has an axe to grind. Is he making objective justifiable comments on the Q400?

 

[Aviador]

I guess the two aircraft are difficult to compare fully as the E195 hasn't been around for all that long where as the Q400 has been around for many years.I'm generalising but I think most people feel safer flying on a Jet aircraft rather than a propeller aircraft. I don't think the Q400 has the greatest of safety records. Hasn't the aircraft been involved in a number of undercarriage failures?

 

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

Thanks for that. The undercarriage problem has its own Wikipedia page. Fortunately, incidents seem to have peaked in 2007 and have shown an improving trend since then.

 

[Jerry]

I believe each aircraft has it's own merits. I've never been on a Q400 but i have been on a E170 which is the smaller version of the E190 and it is a nice aircraft and is ideal for its purpose. The Q400 because it's cheaper to run for the airline makes a lot routes more sustainable than they would if they had jets on. I know Alaska airlines in the US use them to fly to the smaller airports around the Pacific Northwest which they might not be profitable if they were on a jet aircraft. The routes that Flybe do are marginal a lot of the times so you have to ask would Flybe do them with higher costing jets. Would be good if their was a comparison somewhere between the costs of flying the different types of aircraft?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

As has been said, some travellers aren't keen at all on turbo-props or propeller aircraft as most of them would say. I actually quote enjoy them as long as it's not for more than about 90 minutes. I've only flown in a Q400 twice - to and from the Isle of Man with Flybe from/to BRS a few years ago. I can't say I noticed any particular noise or vibration which some people seem to complain about with this aircraft, although the weather was sporty on the return flight and at one point we hit a huge air pocket causing the aircraft to lurch quite violently. The refreshment trolley partially overturned but the flight was lightly loaded so no harm was done.

When the Q400 was new to Flybe a couple with whom I'm acquainted spoke to me about a 'frightening experience' they'd had with an 'old propeller plane' travelling from Bristol to Jersey. They said it rattled and shook so much that they thought their time had come. They vowed to return to England by boat until they discovered that their return flight would be by a jet. It was obviously a Bae146 from the way they described it and Flybe only had that type of jet then anyway.

I pointed out to them that their old banger of a propeller plane was almost brand new whilst their jet was almost as old as the hills.

Another woman told me recently that she dislikes flying although large aircraft aren't so bad. When it gets to the easyJet size she's not keen but will travel reluctantly but draws the line completely when it comes to aircraft with propellers.

I've never flown in the E170/190 series with any airline. Turbo-props do have to put up with an inbuilt prejudice on the part of many people.

 

[CraigW92]

Having used both the Flybe Embraer E195 and the Q400 this year to FAO and LCY this year from CWL whilst being very different I quite enjoyed both aircraft, although on passenger expierence I'd certainly recommend The E195 to travel on, leg room being very efficient over locos that I've used , quiet when compared to other jets and a very comfortable Journey. You'll often see passengers opting for other airports if a Turboprop aircraft was operating a particular route, just for example Ryanair picked up a lot of Welsh travellers because of the EI operating from Cardiff on the ATR, BE now operate a jet service on that route and also from DSA I believe.

I'd tend to agree with Local, the Q400 is fine for short hop regional travel, I myself was sat in row 18 travelling to LCY and they aren't the quietest in the world towards the back, I'd describe it as a lawnmower drone in all honesty, the overhead bins are also extremely small, Business people taking those walk on cases will not get those in. Would I want to travel on a Dash8 over a jet to any destination outside the UK ? I'd probably say no

A little off topic but I remember using the Aer lingus ATR from CWL a few years ago and the aircraft that I flew on in the morning was leased from DAT, safe to say the aircraft was a complete mess inside, chairs ripped and a quite odd configuration inside, flight was pretty awful and I could see why people could be put off, happened to be a new ATR-72 on the way back and the difference was just staggering.



At the end of the day it comes down to what a traveller is comfortable with, you'll have some who won't even contemplate using a Turboprop and others who won't seem to mind what they travel on.

 

[GolfFox]

I suspect KLM feel the catchment area is already covered by the proximity of LBA and HUY. I guess they ask themselves the question - why introduce a new service where you may not fill your aircraft but draw a few passengers away from existing successful services?

 

[GolfFox]

Have flown on both aircraft. E jet is a very pleasant ride and I agree with other comments that the Q400 can be a bit noisy in certain phases of flight. Again, I agree with comments that it's fine for short flights. In terms of pax appeal can't think anyone would prefer Q400 to an E Jet.

 

[empire]

There appears to be some further fine tuning to the winter program compared to that originally put on sale. From what I can see at a quick glance CDG is reduced to 4pw from early Nov until 11 Feb when it returns to 7pw, DUB is reduced to 4pw until last week of March when it returns to 7pw, TXL reduced to 3pw for the bulk of Nov, Jan and Feb, and most of March only operating 4pw in Dec and after the end of March.

AMS and DUS remain unchanged. I've not yet checked the bucket and spade flights.

 

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

That is quite right. It is difficult to summarise because the timetable now varies almost from week to week.
The general number of weekly rotations over the winter season is a follows :-

Amsterdam 7
Paris 4
Dublin 4
Dusseldorf 4
Berlin 3
Alicante 2
Jersey 2
Malaga 2
Chambery 1 (for 8 weeks).

Faro has been dropped for the winter months.

The capacity is increased over the Christmas and half-term holidays but falls during January.
Capacity has been further reduced by replacing a 118 seat E195 with an 88 seat E175.
Project Blackbird seems to be rather more flexible than as first described.

 

[lbaspotter]

Sadly it looks like Flybe are axing it's Doncaster-Sheffield - Dusseldorf route as it no longer bookable after February 2017.
I guess having daily competition up the road at Leeds/Bradford by Jet2 won't have helped!

 

[Airplane]

How many routes do Flybe now operate from Doncaster

 

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

It is interesting to compare the recent Doncaster monthly figures against Cardiff for the Project Blackbird routes. In theory, they should be very similar as both airports arranged for a base with two Embraer 195 aircraft.

The latest figures for the E-jet routes are as follows:-

Doncaster
October 23,804 (load factor 69%).
November 14,691 (51%).
December 2016 17,136 (59%).
January 2017 11,691 (47%).

Cardiff
October 31,784 (57%).
November 26,918 (50%).
December 2016 31,522 (61%).
January 2017 25,510 (45%).
Many thanks to Jerry and Severn for the Cardiff figures. An estimate for October of 4,910 passengers on the Dublin route has had to be made as there were two airlines on the route (based on capacity of 7,800 and a load of 63%).

In October, Doncaster passengers were 75% of the Cardiff total. This fell to 55% in November and 54% in December. In January it was only 47%.
Capacity at Doncaster in January was only 25,449 compared with 56,650 at Cardiff. The load factors were both very similar at just under 50%.
Does this indicate that the Welsh Government are more supportive than the proprietors of DSA?

 

[Jerry]

Does this indicate that the Welsh Government are more supportive than the proprietors of DSA?

If i'm correct hasn't an E175 operated some of the DSA routes? I do believe that Cardiff Airport and Flybe have a good relationship and Flybe must see potential in CWL as they now have a Q400 based there and they do a lot of joint advertising as well. I think there are routes which are doing well but there are routes that need to grow and I do hope when the 195's go they get replaced by 175's but it will be a case of wait and see and may depend if other airlines setup at CWL. I believe in 2019 they have 4 more E175's arriving.

 

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

You are absolutely right. At DSA , one if the E195's has been replaced by an E175. This change has been responsible for part of the capacity reduction.

 

[Jerry]

You are absolutely right. At DSA , one if the E195's has been replaced by an E175. This change has been responsible for part of the capacity reduction.

That might provide a better balance for both airports as some routes the 175 would be a better fit for some routes like CDG but the 195 would suit PMI or FAO better.

 

[Jerry]

DSA will continue for winter 2017/18. I had a quick look through and it looks like there will be a based E175. So good news for DSA!

 

[Jerry]

DSA Flybe winter 2017/18
Alicante 2 weekly Tuesday and Saturday
Amsterdam daily
Berlin TXL 2 weekly Monday and Friday
Dublin 3 weekly Monday, Friday and Sunday
Jersey 2 weekly Wednesday and Saturday
Paris CDG 5 weekly Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday
All on an E175.