Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations

[TheLocalYokel]

The airport website still is woefully lacking in departure info. Many airlines have laid on extra departures. None showing on the board.

For eg Athens from yesterday is due out today after 24 hr delay. Google says it and EZY says it. But Bristol can’t do a simple addition to their website departures board.

How do they win these fake passenger satisfaction awards every year.

I never take much notice of those sorts of 'awards' whether for airlines, airports or any other walk of life. We even had one recently about the happiest airports in the world, based I believe on those smiley button things that are dotted around some airports. There is at least one outside the toilet block in the new arrivals area at BRS where you can press to say what you thought of the toilets, with various options. I've seen toilet cleaning staff pressing the buttons. I wonder how they voted.

The airport is sometimes found wanting in its communication with passengers, but I'm sure it's by no means the only one. It seems to me to be a general malaise in today's corporate society when it comes to dealing with customers.

The airport website departure page for today is thoroughly confusing. According to Mayfly there should be 69 departures today with 26 before 0900. The airport website lists 45 for the whole day with only three before 0900. If some of the departures are operating from another airport, perhaps because the aircraft finished up there yesterday, why don't they say so? If they aren't what happened to the 24 departures not shown?

The number of arrivals shown on the website is just about in sync with the number of arrivals shown on Mayfly in terms of overall numbers, although I haven't checked each individual flight.

This is not just of interest to aviation geeks. Friends/relatives/business colleagues of passengers will also check airport websites to see how their friends/relatives/colleagues' flights are progressing. It's not rocket science to collate 'out of course' flights and put them on the website.

I would guess the AAIB are pulling the strings on this one. Looks like the aircraft had a taxiing issues AFTER landing. Some have speculated on social media that this is an ILS issue as per issues last week, but that certainly doesn't appear to be the case. BRS are therefore governed by the AAIB which means the Airlines are as well. From looking at the photo posted on pprune, it looks like it might not be as simple as getting a tug to move the aircraft, more likely speicialist moving equipment.

That's fair enough but I really wondered why there didn't appear to be a similar closing of the runway for many hours in 2007 when two aircraft skidded onto the grass on landing at the time of the runway resurfacing. I imagine the AAIB would have been informed of those occurrences at the time.

Addendum

According to the BHX thread 14 of the BRS diversions went to BHX yesterday. Thanks to Matt995 for that information.

 

[Marko1]

In fairness to the airport there was regular updates on twitter and Facebook . After all if the Runway has to shut it has to shut and what more can the airport or the airlines do other than say no flights till the runway reopens. Kudos to the airport and the airlines in all they have done to get the airport back up and running.

Anyone know of examples of how other uk airports have dealt any better ?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In fairness to the airport there was regular updates on twitter and Social Media . After all if the Runway has to shut it has to shut and what more can the airport or the airlines do other than say no flights till the runway reopens. Kudos to the airport and the airlines in all they have done to get the airport back up and running.

Anyone know of examples of how other uk airports have dealt any better ?

I agree it was an extremely difficult situation and you are right about the airport not being able to say much more about when the airport might re-open, although they did put out at least two 'not before' timings and both turned out to be optimistic.

I'm also aware that much of the communication about flights is down to the individual airlines. However, the airlines use the airport and many people's first port of call is the airport website when they want to know what's happening to an arriving or departing flight, whether they are passengers or 'meeters and greeters'.

I see no reason why the airport could not have constantly kept in communication with the airlines and placed accurate information on their website arrivals/departures as to the status of flights. If the airlines didn't know then say so on the website. Today is a classic example. This morning they showed 3 departures before 0900. What happened to the other 23 that were scheduled in that period?

I absolutely acknowledge that with occurrences like this there is no perfect solution but did the airlines and airport draft in extra staff? Do they have contingency plans for such situations? Do they have training exercises, if only paper ones? Who was in overall charge of the airport response yesterday? They have no CEO and the business development director was the public face on the local tv. In such situations someone has to take charge. I just wonder who it was yesterday.

 

[Marko1]

Sadly I guess the airport was not in control of the decision when to re open the runway yesterday but the accident authorities and that is the catch 22. The public blame the airport and the airlines whereas everyone should be thankful that their safety is paramount. The reason I asked about other uk airports is to see whether the airport could have done better in any areas. As for communication they were releasing information every hour or so and I guess they estimated time of reopening would have been fed to them from somewhere.

Thankfully no one was hurt and I'm thinking about that bmi crew this weekend

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I agree it was an extremely difficult situation and you are right about the airport not being able to say much more about when the airport might re-open, although they did put out at least two 'not before' timings and both turned out to be optimistic.

I'm also aware that much of the communication about flights is down to the individual airlines. However, the airlines use the airport and many people's first port of call is the airport website when they want to know what's happening to an arriving or departing flight, whether they are passengers or 'meeters and greeters'.

I see no reason why the airport could not have constantly kept in communication with the airlines and placed accurate information on their website arrivals/departures as to the status of flights. If the airlines didn't know then say so on the website. Today is a classic example. This morning they showed 3 departures before 0900. What happened to the other 23 that were scheduled in that period?

I absolutely acknowledge that with occurrences like this there is no perfect solution but did the airlines and airport draft in extra staff? Do they have contingency plans for such situations? Do they have training exercises, if only paper ones? Who was in overall charge of the airport response yesterday? They have no CEO and the business development director was the public face on the local tv. In such situations someone has to take charge. I just wonder who it was yesterday.

In these delay situations, things change so fast. I would suspect this was heavily driven by the AAIB. It could be something as simple as that person getting stuck in traffic on the way to BRS, being one of the busiest days for road travel too. It could have been complications with visibility once they had arrived, it could've been more equipment was needed as originally though as the day went on. It could be any number of things. Generally Airports/Airlines will work to the earliest possible times, but things in Aviation change so quickly and so easily.

Airlines themselves actually stipulate that in "next information" scenarios, the information is updated every 30-60 mins. E.G - Flight has delay at 13:00 with ETD unknown. Airlines specify information should at 13:00 be "Next info 13:30 or 14:00", when 13:30 or 14:00 comes if theres still no update it's "Next info 14:00 or 14:30" and so on. Unless a timeframe is known. Personally I think this winds up passengers even more because they feel they are being strung along. If the time said "Next info 15:00" straight away" there's no expectation for information earlier than that.

There would be a number of specifically trained people, likely the Duty Managers who make the calls on such situations until people higher up the chain get involved or even arrive if it's out of hours. Although there's no CEO, I doubt the CEO would be operationally involved, as you say would just be the face. Having worked at a number of Airports there's always people that would be drafted in to help in these situations. Management from all companies would become operational. Most Airports and Airlines have a "Bronze", "Silver" command setup to deal with such situations and take the pressure off the front line teams so decisions can be made collectively.

Airport flight information is usually controlled by the handlers. Technology has improved over the years where it's more automated. If the handler doesn't know the information then sometimes it isn't accurate. I agree with previous comments that the BRS website isn't the best for information in comparison to other airports. In diversion scenarios it's rare to see where the divert has gone to, or when the next info is. But what I can say is that the flight info screens at the Airport do often show more detailed info than the website.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Thank you for that detailed reply, Foxlimayankee. I was really alluding to a senior figure taking command to oversee the situation rather than such a person becoming involved in the 'front line' work. The gold, silver and bronze command structure in the event of major incidents (which this was in terms of an airport such as BRS) is something that organisations like police forces use with major incidents of course.

I'm sure there will be a comprehensive de-brief when the dust settles. Valuable lessons are usually learned from real life situations far more readily than any number of role-playing exercises, useful as these can be.

I always bear in mind the comment of von Moltke, the great Prussian military strategist, that no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Things seem to be back on track today except that bmi regional BM 1825 to FRA at 1205 is shown as cancelled. The return BM 1826 at 1605 has no comment against it on the airport website.

Yesterday the Bristol Post continued to highlight the bmir incident with reports and pictures, with one article declaring that the aircraft had skidded off the runway into a nearby field. They'd obviously seen pictures of the aircraft on the grass area next to the runway where it had come to rest and decided that this was some sort of field.

This says it all about that particular organ and Trinity Mirror regional papers as a genre.

 

[Seasider]

In fairness to the airport there was regular updates on twitter and Social Media .......
?

As TLY said, the airport website is where most people will go for information, not everyone uses social media and those who do wouldn't necessary know where to go. (an assumption on my part as I do not use social media)

 

[Jerry]

Bristol airport's runway has closed again due to a small electrical fire at runway maintenance access point. TUI Airways arrival from Las Palmas diverted to BHX.
The runway is due to open at 9pm.
https://www.ukaviationnetwork.com/second-emergency-in-3-days-closes-bristol-airport/

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Notam closed until 0600. But no flights during that time anyway. Possible damage to electrics, so could impact tomorrow if not fixed.
Not been a good few weeks!

 

[kraktoa]

Airport suggesting lightning strike cause fire. Bad luck if it is true.

But to be sure that this is not connected to the ILS issue and the BMI incident i suspect a longer closure of the airport will be inevitable.

3 incidents like this in such a short span of time....

 

[Jerry]

With incidents like these in a short space of time will an organisation like the CAA come in and do some sort of inspection of the airport?

 

[Jerry]

This article has some photos of the BMI Embraer that came off the runway the other day.
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/airplane-caused-cancellations-delays-arrival-971761

 

[Jerry]

Just seen a twitter exchange between a passenger at Brussels waiting a BMI flight there and Bristol airport.
Is Bristol having problems deicing the aircraft today as that flight was delayed by about 4 hours and the airport said it was down to deicing queues.

 

[kraktoa]

Its been a very bad few days for Bristol. But hey ho they will win a passenger satisfaction award.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Probably the age old, you only need enough equipment for most of the year, then the odd occasion you could really do with a few more! Can't imagine there's excessive de-icing equipment kept. With so many aircraft departing at the same time from BRS, the rigs will eventually run empty and need refilling and heating up again.

 

[Aviador]

Is forum4airports only to discuss upbeat news about airports?

No not at all. I'm more than happy for everything to be discussed here. The only reason I didn't post on the story was because it happened so close to Christmas and I've just been so busy with family commitments.

It has been noted that members of F4A on a certain other airports forum seem to have a self imposed embargo on posting anything negative. For example their Delays Diversions & Cancellations thread tends to only feature inbound diversion information.

On the whole though I'd say Bristol fares poorly by media reporting. Had it happened at somewhere like Gatwick it would have been brushed off as a non event fairly quickly. As it happened at Bristol, the foggy airport sat on a hill, the media were all over it like a rash.

 

[kraktoa]

Probably the age old, you only need enough equipment for most of the year, then the odd occasion you could really do with a few more! Can't imagine there's excessive de-icing equipment kept. With so many aircraft departing at the same time from BRS, the rigs will eventually run empty and need refilling and heating up again.

I presume the job is contracted out to the lowest bidder. Like with baggage handlers etc the contractor will have minimal staff on duty.

 

[Marko1]

No not at all. I'm more than happy for everything to be discussed here. The only reason I didn't post on the story was because it happened so close to Christmas and I've just been so busy with family commitments.

It has been noted that members of F4A on a certain other airports forum seem to have a self imposed embargo on posting anything negative. For example their Delays Diversions & Cancellations thread tends to only feature inbound diversion information.

On the whole though I'd say Bristol fares poorly by media reporting. Had it happened at somewhere like Gatwick it would have been brushed off as a non event fairly quickly. As it happened at Bristol, the foggy airport sat on a hill, the media were all over it like a rash.

I totally agree regarding the media thing. There is negative postings regarding security etc on various airport twitter sites including Cardiff though they never get picked up by the media. However a slight negative particularly a photo and the Bristol post is on the case straight away. There always seems to be negativity regarding the airport and I'm not sure quite why . A lot of the recent events are not in control of the airport but somehow it's all blamed on the airport and it's hard working team. It's quite frustrating. Maybe we need to appoint a public/ media friendly face to change perceptions ...

 

[Jerry]

With the media at a successful airport like Bristol unless there is a very good relationship between the airport and the local paper then the negatives probably would get promoted more as it's more click bait news. Also you have to ask is Bristol Airport a customer of the Bristol Post by advertising with them or doing sponsored articles? If they did more like that with the Bristol Post then the stuff produced would come out generally more positive.