2019 Rugby Union World Cup

[Jerry]

presume that the knock-out stages have built-in provision for dealing with weather or other interference, or have they?

The knock out games would be replayed.

 

[David_itl]

The other notable thing that's happened is Italy is now knocked out of the tournament with their game called off as well. Given they were due to play New Zealand, it's a moot point as to whether they would have beaten them anyway but it's now going to be a "what if" moment.... imagine New Zealand only playing at 75% to 80% of their ability and Italy playing a little bit above their ability then a Kiwi slightly mistimes a tackle and ends up being sent off.

One of the oddities I've noticed is that there's been the odd day where 1 game was scheduled but the following day 3 games were on. Why not 2 per day (the fact we have this disparity of scheduling indicates that there will be countries with longer rest periods than others),

It's the wilful sanctioning of playing the tournament in a country where a known weather pattern exists that needs to be subject of an enquiry with less of the supposed success of the tournament as what has now happened is anything but a success. By all means have it in Japan but schedule it around the most optimum conditions possible. I just hope that the next week or two only sees those 2 games called off

 

[Jerry]

It's the wilful sanctioning of playing the tournament in a country where a known weather pattern exists that needs to be subject of an enquiry with less of the supposed success of the tournament as what has now happened is anything but a success. By all means have it in Japan but schedule it around the most optimum conditions possible. I just hope that the next week or two only sees those 2 games called off

In 2011 the RWC was held in a country massively prone to earthquakes and one of the venues was made unusable by an earthquake a few years before and may end up in a country with much more unpredictable weather than Japan in 2027.
Rugby needed to go to a new frontier and Asia has never had a tournament and Japan was the best option, also due to the rugby calendar you only have the September to November window available as the Rugby Championship is played in August and the European clubs want their players back for November for the start of the European cup tournament.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting thread on Twitter about the whole situation from Brian Moore.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1182355309337153537

 

[TheLocalYokel]

What were the 'robust contingency plans'? They appear to be simply cancelling affected matches.

Scotland are talking about taking legal action if their game against Japan is called off. If they agreed to the rules beforehand, which presumably they did, I wonder what grounds they think they have.

The comment about the European clubs wanting their players by November for European cup matches is in stark contrast to FIFA's attitude where for the first time ever, in order to accommodate Qatar's furnace-like weather at that time of year, the football world cup will not be played during the May/June/July period. The mid-November to mid-December 2022 FIFA World Cup will severely disrupt the major European leagues as well as the European cup competitions, not to mention the early rounds of the FA Cup. FIFA ignored the protests from the major European leagues.

 

[Jerry]

The comment about the European clubs wanting their players by November for European cup matches is in stark contrast t

In rugby at the moment there is a strengthening of the clubs and I think if the RWC was moved forward say so it ended up finishing in December I'd expect that the clubs would just refuse to release the players.
As for Scotland taking legal action I doubt that they will as it could backfire on them especially in the long run.
Idk exactly what the contingency plans actually were, i think it might have been to move to other stadiums but i'm not sure as i can't find much about it.
What it will do is effect the RWC in a more subtle way. England, France and New Zealand will be under cooked tournament wise especially England. Their opposition will be fully battle hardened so the quarter finals will be interesting!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In rugby at the moment there is a strengthening of the clubs and I think if the RWC was moved forward say so it ended up finishing in December I'd expect that the clubs would just refuse to release the players.

I didn't know that. In football clubs have to release players for competitive international matches - I'm not sure about 'friendlies'. If they didn't they would be subject to FIFA sanctions which could be serious for them.

 

[Jerry]

I didn't know that. In football clubs have to release players for competitive international matches - I'm not sure about 'friendlies'. If they didn't they would be subject to FIFA sanctions which could be serious for them.

In rugby it's all about agreed windows and competitions. So the 6 nations is one, with the exception of the rest weekends, 3 weeks in June is another (which i think is shifting to July) , the Rugby Championship in August, September and October is another again with the exception of the rest weekends and then 3 weeks in November. The clubs also have to release players the weekend before for training purposes.

The RWC window is agreed for September through October with August for warm ups and training camps. The British and Irish Lions tour has a specially agreed window as well which has slowly been getting smaller because the clubs keep extending their season.
Any games outside of these windows have to be agreed separately with clubs hence why teams like Wales, Ireland and England put restrictions on players playing outside of their home country if they want to play for their country. As an example the Americas 6 nations isn't considered an agreed competition so the individual countries have to negotiate with the clubs for release despite it being in the same window as the 6 nations championship. I'm not sure about the European championship.
World rugby were trying to bring in a global calendar but they failed as the Six Nations refuses to move so you have a sport where certain teams are guarenteed a lot more international rugby than others especially at full strength.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In rugby it's all about agreed windows and competitions. So the 6 nations is one, with the exception of the rest weekends, 3 weeks in June is another (which i think is shifting to July) , the Rugby Championship in August, September and October is another again with the exception of the rest weekends and then 3 weeks in November. The clubs also have to release players the weekend before for training purposes.

The RWC window is agreed for September through October with August for warm ups and training camps. The British and Irish Lions tour has a specially agreed window as well which has slowly been getting smaller because the clubs keep extending their season.
Any games outside of these windows have to be agreed separately with clubs hence why teams like Wales, Ireland and England put restrictions on players playing outside of their home country if they want to play for their country. As an example the Americas 6 nations isn't considered an agreed competition so the individual countries have to negotiate with the clubs for release despite it being in the same window as the 6 nations championship. I'm not sure about the European championship.
World rugby were trying to bring in a global calendar but they failed as the Six Nations refuses to move so you have a sport where certain teams are guarenteed a lot more international rugby than others especially at full strength.

Many thanks for that detailed explanation. Appreciated.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Back to the important matters in hand - the rugby that is taking place.

I always think that the really interesting part doesn't begin until the knock-out stage is reached when for the most part games are between established rugby-playing countries.

The outcome of the two known quarter-finals seem impossible to predict with confidence. I suppose that on their day any of the teams could beat the other. I never try to predict match outcomes, whether rugby, football or cricket unless there is an obvious missmatch.

Would Wales be slight favourites in their game and England/Australia evenly poised?

 

[Jerry]

Would Wales be slight favourites in their game and England/Australia evenly poised?

I'd say Wales would be favourite's yes. England v Australia will be an interesting one, England do have a good record against the Aussies but i get the feeling Australia will have something to prove after their defeat to Wales and England will be slightly under cooked because of the cancelled match, i'm sure the bookies will have England as the slight favourite's but i would not be surprised if Australia win.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

What another incredible performance from Japan. The speed of their handling was spellbinding at times. How far can they go, especially with the backing of the crowd? Before the tournament began did anyone really believe they would top their group with four wins out of four?

Next weekend's quarter-finals are:

England v Australia
New Zealand v Ireland

The above two quarter-final winners will play each other in the semi-final

Wales v France
Japan v South Africa

The above two quarter-final winners will play each other in the semi-final

Anyone want to have a stab at the four quarter-final winners? I'm useless at this sort of thing which is why I never did the football pools.

Anyway, I'll go for Australia, New Zealand, Wales and South Africa although my heart says Japan. Could then be a New Zealand v Wales final.

 

[Jerry]

Great day for rugby today not just because Japan won but because it was decided on the pitch. They definitely have shown that the whole tier 1 tier2 division of rugby has become blurred! Also good from Uruguay who put up a spirited performance against Wales!
I'd say that Australia, New Zealand, Wales and South Africa will get through to the quarter finals with a New Zealand v Wales final in my dreams!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Great day for rugby today not just because Japan won but because it was decided on the pitch. They definitely have shown that the whole tier 1 tier2 division of rugby has become blurred! Also good from Uruguay who put up a spirited performance against Wales!
I'd say that Australia, New Zealand, Wales and South Africa will get through to the quarter finals with a New Zealand v Wales final in my dreams!

Ah, we agree on the sem-finalists and finalists then, Jerry. If we are right, the RFU with the number of clubs and players within its control will wonder if they can ever find a coach to emulate Clive Woodward.

 

[David_itl]

Well that was a turn-up for the books. Less possession but did more with it. Excellent performance by England.

 

[Brummiegem]

Well that was a turn-up for the books. Less possession but did more with it. Excellent performance by England.

Absolutely David.It just goes to show that you cannot or should not ever write off England.
They have been superb in defence for a long time now, but their attacking play is as lethal as anyone’s in world rugby.
Now do England fear anyone or do everyone else fear England?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I was only able to watch the last few minutes of the match itself but listening to the studio discussion afterwards the points made in the last two posts were amply confirmed.

Good sporting weekend for me so far - Bristol hammering an admittedly weakened Bath because of international call-ups in the first Prem match of the season last night and now England. Just needs my football teams to keep up the good work this afternoon - I wouldn't bet on it though.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Three out of four guesses were correct when I attempted to come up with the semi-finalists in an earlier post. The one I got wrong was England. Oh dear!

Squeaky bottom time for Wales today. I think I know one man who won't be up for an early award of the Legion d'honneur when he returns to France.

So it's New Zealand v England and Wales v South Africa in the semi-finals.

Japan were an exciting presence and a breath of fresh air but they always seemed likely to come to a bridge too far. Adrenalin boosted by a tremendous crowd can't succeed for ever. Japan's brand of rugby, although perhaps a bit naive at times, was an intoxicating spectacle. They were probably everybody's favourite team after their own country.

I thought that Ireland were the biggest disappointment. They didn't really get themselves into the competition and were brushed aside by New Zealand in their quarter-final.

Jerry is probably our biggest rugby union expert. I'd be interested in his views on the tournament so far and how he feels the semis will go. I hope I'm wrong but I take New Zealand to edge out England (I got the England quarter-final wrong so I hope I'm consistent with the semi and get that wrong too). Wales might have a bit too much for South Africa although they were having their work cut out today before the sending-off. England v Wales - now that would be an enticing prospect for the final for us in the UK.

As in football, one-off knock-out matches don't always go the way many people expect so let's hope that both semis are exciting affairs.

 

[Brummiegem]

Agree with most of your post Mr Yokel.
Having seen how ruthless South Africa were against Japan,and how lucky Wales were, I can only see the Springboks going through to the final.
Anyone who listened to the radio coverage would have heard how unimpressed most people were with the Welsh performance.A needless and stupid red card to a French player gave Wales the edge in the game,but they still made a meal of getting the win.

As for England, if they play to their strengths and more importantly keep their discipline which has been okay so far, then they can give the all Blacks a contest.However it is going to be a tough encounter and most people will back New Zealand, but as I said in my previous post,NEVER write off England.

 

[Jerry]

I thought that Ireland were the biggest disappointment. They didn't really get themselves into the competition and were brushed aside by New Zealand in their quarter-final.

Ireland have always flattered to deceive at the world cup. They've never gone beyond the quarters. I do think that both them and Scotland underestimated having Japan in their group.
I think the semi finals are a fair reflection of where rugby is at the moment. The 4 teams in the semis are probably the best 4 teams in world rugby right now.
England v New Zealand I can't call both are excellent sides and evenly matched but I do think New Zealand will be slight favourites but it should be a fantastic game but if Wales get into the final I hope England are there to.
Wales v South Africa is the same 2 evenly matched teams but South Africa will be the favourite. My heart will go for Wales and hopefully it'll survive the match as I practically had a heart attack today during the game!

Anyone who listened to the radio coverage would have heard how unimpressed most people were with the Welsh performance.

Yes it was a bad performance but they won and Wales have established the habit of winning. I'm pretty sure Wales won't play that badly against South Africa especially as they won't play like France!