HS2 - the advantages and disadvantages for BHX


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Ianbutty

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,147
143
Essex
With the government about to give the go ahead, a game changing moment for BHX and the City region is about to take place.

Not only will this place the airport at the very heart of the UK transport network, but the investors will flock to the city. Birmingham is now the alternative to London. The certainty of phase one puts it within an easy commute from London, not the other way round. With property rents for Class A offices at around a quarter of the west end and a third the City, Birmingham and the economic powerhouse of the M42 are as attractive as the Thames Valley.

The university sector will be strengthened and with that R&D and the creative sectors. Even our sports teams may see a spike or two!

Whether BHX attracts new airlines looking for an alternative to London remains to be seen, but the airport is within the same time range as Stansted!

Great times are afoot. Even better when the North links into the city region. Build it and they will definitely come.
 

mullion

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2014
699
93
The one thing people are missing is the car and aviation scene, it will be very different as there will be massive changes in both by the time
it gets built
 

Ianbutty

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,147
143
Essex
The one thing people are missing is the car and aviation scene, it will be very different as there will be massive changes in both by the time
it gets built
We are at or reaching peak car...and possibly peak aviation? we are also seeing a shift in why people and goods travel and over what distances.

Cars usage will change with the 97% of their time in a parking space being a key driver for a shared ownership structure. I would not be surprised to hear that road investment will reduce considerably.

Bus and cycling investment also to come although we need at least £5 billion a year not a one off investment. The health benefits are massive and will ease congestion more than any rail or road investment. As part of that we need buses to bypass cars and cycle paths to link towns and cities off line not just within urban areas.

All heading in the right direction to get use moving more efficiently. We are planning for a different future. Exciting one too.
 

mullion

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2014
699
93
Don`t know about the busses round you but South Manchester needs some major investment as the car traffic at times is worse than London, the trams are having a major bonus but just take to long to build. I think more localised funding may help but its going to hurt
before it gets better
 

Ianbutty

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,147
143
Essex
Don`t know about the busses round you but South Manchester needs some major investment as the car traffic at times is worse than London, the trams are having a major bonus but just take to long to build. I think more localised funding may help but its going to hurt
before it gets better
I agree that we need more buses but we also need people to use them. The way to do that is make journeys on them quicker than the car. Sadly no easy fix but at least we (not just you and I) are talking about it. :)

Although HS2 is the more vital for the northern economy now, longer term HS3 is also required - cross Pennine and to Scotland...possible to Northern Ireland. It is exciting to think that the country which invented the railway is having a railway renaissance.
 

Carl0927

Premium Member
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Dec 19, 2016
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Cheshire
Last week it was announced the government are re thinking buses and putting some money into bringing routes. Where I live there is no local bus, but there are the layby where they once stopped.
 

Carl0927

Premium Member
I've upgraded to support F4A!
Dec 19, 2016
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I agree that we need more buses but we also need people to use them. The way to do that is make journeys on them quicker than the car. Sadly no easy fix but at least we (not just you and I) are talking about it. :)

Although HS2 is the more vital for the northern economy now, longer term HS3 is also required - cross Pennine and to Scotland...possible to Northern Ireland. It is exciting to think that the country which invented the railway is having a railway renaissance.
I think HS3 is very important for the north, its dreadful getting from east to west much worse than north to south.
 

Ashley.S.

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Apr 10, 2011
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I don't understand HS2 getting approved tbh, it is constantly going over budget, and when similar numbers are required to build an alternative line to use in the south-west when Dawlish is closed, that gets declined because it would cost too much...
 

Brummiegem

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
661
93
Birmingham
The new Sprint bus route will run from Walsall along the A34 through Birmingham city centre and along the A45 to the Airport.
It will have priority at traffic lights and at certain other junctions.
It should be finished in time for the Commonwealth games,but that may be another story.
Getting to and from BHX is getting lots of attention,all we need now are the air services to make it worthwhile.
 

andrew.clarkson

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2013
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Hi there Brummiegem, I fully agree with you about your post, the only trouble is, who, which and when, because Birmingham Airport hasn't had any major big announcements for such a long time about really important routes that matters. So until there is any announcement, Birmingham Airport will have to stick with what it has.. Andyc
 

TheLocalYokel

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Jan 14, 2009
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Yes
I don't understand HS2 getting approved tbh, it is constantly going over budget, and when similar numbers are required to build an alternative line to use in the south-west when Dawlish is closed, that gets declined because it would cost too much...
The South West (population over 5 million) has no electrified railways apart from the line between Paddington and South Wales that runs north of Bristol. The region has to rely entirely on diesel traction with no plans to alter that. The government even abandoned a section of proposed electrification east of Bath through that city to Bristol on Brunel's beautifully engineered main line between Bristol Temple Meads and Paddington after tens of millions had already been spent on preparing that section for electrification, including the closure of the Box Tunnel for six weeks. They then reneged in order to save what wouldn't even amount to petty cash in the HS2 project.

The government is to ban the sale of new diesel and petrol cars in a few years time yet is quite happy to allow new bi-modes and the ancient diesel trains to chuck out their muck across this huge peripheral region until who knows when? There is no motorway west of Exeter and, as Ashley points out, the railway line between Exeter and Plymouth (no airport there now of course) although a spectacular journey along the coast and through the foothills of Dartmoor takes an age and is liable to regular weather closure.

HS2? We'd willingly settle for bog-standard electric trains down here. It's not just the North that is shafted as someone posted recently.
 

Brummiegem

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
661
93
Birmingham
As far as the Rail network is concerned,and TheLocalYokel is correct,is the infrastructure itself.
For all their faults,you can change operators as much as you want.Problem is, they are still operating on the same tracks,using same signalling,same stations etc etc.
With environment issues as they are,electrification of the entire network is key.Either that or you need to develope a new fuel source, that is sustainable and reasonably priced.
Of course it will all take time to come to fruition, but in the meantime travellers will continue to suffer delays, cancellations and overcrowding.
HS2 will only be effective if it affordable to all and not just for business people.We all know the West Coast mainline needs help, but improving infrastructure on that line will be difficult.Therefore HS2 will need to be a usable alternative for all users.
 

Brum X

Premium Member Plus
Mar 23, 2011
4,708
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Birmingham UK
This project is very deep in my heart, a great day for the city and the wider region.

The dancing zebra only comes out on special days.

Brum X will have so much to do between now and 2030 :geek: get ready folks HS2 is coming, Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

Coathanger16

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2016
1,334
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25
Solihull
A few points to add/make to HS2, but firstly I'm definitely in the pro-HS2 camp and today is a good day for HS2.

Cost:
One of the main points about cost is that HS2 will cost SO much and wouldn't it be better to spend that to upgrade the existing network (e.g. electrifying rail in the SW). The issue is the government doesn't actually have the money to build HS2 - they're borrowing it against the value of HS2 itself - and therefore can't use that money on other projects.

Affordability of using HS2:
As part of bidding for the WCML franchise, Avanti West Coast were also bidding to operate services on HS2. When HS2 opens, most if not all of the Avanti Birmingham - London services will move from New Street & the WCML to Curzon Street & HS2. The only other Birmingham to London services will be the slow, stopping one operated by West Midlands Trains which will continue to use New Street. If Avanti set prices for HS2 too high, passengers will just opt for the slower service from their competitor. No doubt tickets for Avanti HS2 services will cost more than the West Midlands Trains services, but you'll be paying a premium for a faster service, just like you do currently.

I must admit watching MP Michael Fabricant in the commons and on Victoria Derbyshire this morning was painful - on the one hand he was complaining that HS2 doesn't go to New Street but a new station next door so that to change trains you'll have to leave one station rather than just change platform. At the same time he criticised HS2 for going to Euston - the current terminus for services from New Street - over St Pancras. So what do you want Michael? HS2 to serve the existing terminus of the WCML or stations nearby those terminus? I appreciate the point he was trying to make was about connectivity to HS1 and Eurostar services, but I'm pretty sure that was originally planned to be via a link from HS2 to HS1 rather than by HS2 services terminating at St Pancras?

Was also good to hear Boris make the point in the commons that it would quicker to get from Birmingham Airport to London on HS2 that it would from Heathrow to London by taxi and the Piccadilly line.
 

finchy168

Active Member
Sep 28, 2015
97
33
Birmingham
A few points to add/make to HS2, but firstly I'm definitely in the pro-HS2 camp and today is a good day for HS2.

Cost:
One of the main points about cost is that HS2 will cost SO much and wouldn't it be better to spend that to upgrade the existing network (e.g. electrifying rail in the SW). The issue is the government doesn't actually have the money to build HS2 - they're borrowing it against the value of HS2 itself - and therefore can't use that money on other projects.

Affordability of using HS2:
As part of bidding for the WCML franchise, Avanti West Coast were also bidding to operate services on HS2. When HS2 opens, most if not all of the Avanti Birmingham - London services will move from New Street & the WCML to Curzon Street & HS2. The only other Birmingham to London services will be the slow, stopping one operated by West Midlands Trains which will continue to use New Street. If Avanti set prices for HS2 too high, passengers will just opt for the slower service from their competitor. No doubt tickets for Avanti HS2 services will cost more than the West Midlands Trains services, but you'll be paying a premium for a faster service, just like you do currently.

I must admit watching MP Michael Fabricant in the commons and on Victoria Derbyshire this morning was painful - on the one hand he was complaining that HS2 doesn't go to New Street but a new station next door so that to change trains you'll have to leave one station rather than just change platform. At the same time he criticised HS2 for going to Euston - the current terminus for services from New Street - over St Pancras. So what do you want Michael? HS2 to serve the existing terminus of the WCML or stations nearby those terminus? I appreciate the point he was trying to make was about connectivity to HS1 and Eurostar services, but I'm pretty sure that was originally planned to be via a link from HS2 to HS1 rather than by HS2 services terminating at St Pancras?

Was also good to hear Boris make the point in the commons that it would quicker to get from Birmingham Airport to London on HS2 that it would from Heathrow to London by taxi and the Piccadilly line.
You mentioned about there being only one other Birmingham to London line, don’t forget Chiltern go from Birmingham Moor Street to London Marylebone.
 

HPsauce

New Member
Feb 11, 2020
11
3
64
Birmingham B36
One thing we can be sure of : HS2 will end up way over the £106 billion currently touted. At the moment the cost to taxpayers is running at £4000 each!!. Hard luck if you live in places such as Northampton or Milton Keynes. You will only have the slow "stopping train".
 

Coathanger16

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2016
1,334
143
25
Solihull
One thing we can be sure of : HS2 will end up way over the £106 billion currently touted.
Given what the government's now proposing, I'm not sure how easy that will be to prove, which is probably one of the reasons they're doing it!

Phase 2b - the western leg north of Crewe, and all of the eastern leg - will be put under the same project as NPR and be called HSN (High Speed North).

It's also worth mentioning, because the media either hasn't done their research or are just plain anti-HS2, that the £106bn figure is only an upper estimate from Lord Berkeley - a staunch opponent of HS2! The only mention of it in the Oakervee Review was to dismiss it.
 
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