Academic level discourse

JENNYJET

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A

thread that hopefully Will be populated by those members that connect.

The deeper questions and answers that the general forum may struggle to process or understand. Not an elitist avenue but an opportunity to discuss areas of interest, possibly related to Aviation.

An area where perhaps Moderators may be handcuffed!
 

TheLocalYokel

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I wonder if you would kick off or start the ball rolling, to mix metaphors, to give an example of what you have in mind.
 

JENNYJET

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Okay chaps, as some of you know, I am a reader of Law, Constitutional and Ecclesiastical and currently studying US Constitution. Others are competent in Chemistry, or Logistics or indeed life in general.

As a beginning, are these subjects to ponder? My aim is to enable discourse in the language of graduate thinking amongst those with similar interests.
 
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TheLocalYokel

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I took your allusion to moderators being handcuffed to mean that the thread would be wide-ranging therefore it would be hard to suggest that anything had wandered off topic.

The usual forum rules will still apply of course.
 

JENNYJET

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As an example, I once suggested that most people could not digest a legal judgment of the Supreme Court due to the complexity of the wording and concepts hidden in plain sight and understandable to a lawyer. A question of Law may be a suitable topic given the current troubles with protests relating to Climate change etc.
 

JENNYJET

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Okay, First question, a neighbour decides to disable your vehicle on your property because he believes he has the right to prevent emissions that may damage the climate. Is he liable to the owner, the public or to the state?
 

TheLocalYokel

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Okay, First question, a neighbour decides to disable your vehicle on your property because he believes he has the right to prevent emissions that may damage the climate. Is he liable to the owner, the public or to the state?
Depending on how the vehicle was disabled it's highly likely that some form of criminal damage was caused. That being so the perpetrator could be charged with that offence but might seek to use the defence within the Act that his action was legally justified because he was trying to prevent climate change causing greater damage to property around the world.

That defence [destruction or damage to property in order to protect other property which the accused believed was in immediate need of protection and that the means of protection were reasonable having given consideration to all the circumstances] was successfully used by Greenpeace activists some years ago who were acquitted of causing damage to a power station.

Criminal prosecutions are undertaken in the name of the sovereign (R v ) - the state in that sense - although in the USA I believe it's The People versus.....

I suppose the aggrieved might have a civil case to seek damages for trespass although how successful that might be if no damage had been cause I have no idea.

That's my take anyway.
 

JENNYJET

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The two acts were correctly identified, the disablement and the trespass. Being on private property renders it to be a civil tort, the damage or disablement of the vehicle would be a crime. The one event has thus become two cases, two lawyers and two hearings with associated costs.

Civil proceedings are under the Crown in the County Court and any judgment has the weight of the Crown. Disregard of said judgment is a contempt of court and a criminal offence subject to imprisonment.

the point of the original question was relative to the alleged peaceful protest of the activists that obstructed motorists last week.
 

TheLocalYokel

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The two acts were correctly identified, the disablement and the trespass. Being on private property renders it to be a civil tort, the damage or disablement of the vehicle would be a crime. The one event has thus become two cases, two lawyers and two hearings with associated costs.

Civil proceedings are under the Crown in the County Court and any judgment has the weight of the Crown. Disregard of said judgment is a contempt of court and a criminal offence subject to imprisonment.

the point of the original question was relative to the alleged peaceful protest of the activists that obstructed motorists last week.
And of course two standards of proof.

Beyond a reasonable doubt in the criminal case and the lesser balance of probabilities in civil proceedings.
 

Kevin Farnell

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I once suggested that most people could not digest a legal judgment of the Supreme Court due to the complexity of the wording and concepts hidden in plain sight and understandable to a lawyer.
I think that holds true for most disciplines. Certainly the Sciences have their own words, phrases definitions and laws that can be difficult to understand without sufficient Scientific education. It can even go further. I've heard Physicists say that certain theories can not be explained in words, they can only be understood in mathematical terms (and a lot of that maths is way over my head).
Looking at it from another perspective, I've heard Chefs say that they have 'acidulated' a dish by for example adding lemon juice or vinegar. Why do they have to come up with a different and to me nonsensical term? The term 'acidified', which denotes the lowering of the pH to between 7 and 0 (pH = -log10 of the Hydrogen ion ((H+)) concentration) has been around for far longer and to me is correct (I've never heard a Scientist use the term 'acidulated').
Even the above, is an example. I'm unable to use correct Scientific notation as the '10' following 'log' should be represented as a subscript and the '+' following 'H' should be superscript.
However, I think that Scientists are very open to trying to educate the public by using simpler terms (but often wish that the public had remembered more from their schooling). Although Science, like other disciplines still needs it's own terminology to ba able to be fully understood and clearly defined at a high level.

Kevin
 

Kevin Farnell

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Was I always destined to be a Scientist?

Thinking back to my younger days, there are a couple of incidents that pointed to my future profession.
The first, when I was still young enough (around 5-6 years old) for my Mom to bath me I remember asking 'where I'm sat in the bath, is there a hole in the water the same shape as me?' I'd basically described 'displacement', which is fundamental to Archimedes Principle.
A few years later (aged around 11), we were just starting on Organic Chemistry in our Science lessons. The Teacher was explaining the basics of alkanes (Carbon/Hydrogen compounds with increasing numbers of Carbon atoms in a chain e.g. Methane, Ethane, Propane, Butane etc) when I put my hand up and asked 'can the chain be long enough so that one end can be joined to the other?' There was a surprised look on my Teacher's face who replied 'that's an excellent question, but we'll get to that later'. I later learned that Kekule had dreamt of a snake biting it's own tail, which led him to understand the structure of Benzene (6 Carbon atoms in a ring, with a Hydrogen atom attached to each Carbon).
Add to this my desire to take my toys apart to see how they worked (usually, it was left to my Dad to put them back together) and I think you can see where I was headed.

Kevin
 

JENNYJET

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I would suggest that everyone is born with the necessary genetic material that develops, with careful management and a sprinkling of natural curiosity, into our Scientists and Artists or Sports hero's.

I was considered a potential Maths star, highest scores in tests etc., Until a change in teacher. It got to the wall that is Algebra. I could not, and still cannot see the alleged simplicity and beauty of that part of Mathematics but numbers were my sweet spot and I eventually went into the betting industry. I had the basic tools, and was educated to the manipulation of numbers to determine loss or profit. Then it was time and distance as a vehicular Courier and when my body gave up, it was the logical manipulation of words and the subject that is Law.

So, Professor Kevin is, in my opinion, an apparent natural Scientist.
 

TheLocalYokel

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I would suggest that everyone is born with the necessary genetic material that develops, with careful management and a sprinkling of natural curiosity, into our Scientists and Artists or Sports hero's.

I was considered a potential Maths star, highest scores in tests etc., Until a change in teacher. It got to the wall that is Algebra. I could not, and still cannot see the alleged simplicity and beauty of that part of Mathematics but numbers were my sweet spot and I eventually went into the betting industry. I had the basic tools, and was educated to the manipulation of numbers to determine loss or profit. Then it was time and distance as a vehicular Courier and when my body gave up, it was the logical manipulation of words and the subject that is Law.

So, Professor Kevin is, in my opinion, an apparent natural Scientist.
Some of us are Jacks of all trades but masters of none.

Incidentally, what designates a job as a profession? I know it can be argued that everyone who is paid to work is a professional but I'm thinking of those occupations that are generally regarded as a profession. The Law and Medicine are two obvious examples.
 

Poshgirl

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An interesting but complex topic to debate! Then add in the reasoning behind perceptions of what is a profession and what is not.

In my eyes Law, Medicine (human and veterinary), Engineering, Science, Art. We could also consider Pilots and the Military. I wonder whether Sports heroes can be classed in the same way, although their chosen sport nurtures their natural ability, they aren't dealing with the complexities of developing a vaccine, for example.

Some venture into their chosen careers through aptitude, parental encouragement or just general curiosity. Or a combination of many factors. I was never interested in going to university and the encouragement wasn't there. I was steered into office work, eventually becoming a Director's PA. Realised around the age of 40 that there was so much still to learn. My formal education had finished at nearly 19 but it didn't stop me from being curious. My 16 year old niece will be only the second family member to go to university, if she chooses (and exam results are good). The other is my 23 year old cousin. His degree didn't take him into the job he wanted, so he's working for a bank.

Then there's the description of someone being a "career politician" or "career civil servant", but that means something totally different....
 
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