UK Cargo Operations

[LBAYORKIE]

It's not LBA that think it's not worth it, it's the cargo handling agents. Since the last lot packed up, nobody has been interested in taking over at LBA despite the airport making approaches to them. The new employment hub, when built, will probably provide more space, but whether that will entice them remains to be seen, particularly given the airports continued remoteness from the motorway network for distribution. It seems the likes of EMA have grabbed the lion's share of the business and what's left doesn't interest anyone enough to invest here. .

Post automatically merged: Dec 15, 2022

Your opinion LBAYorkie. Not what we were told at the Consultative Committee. I know cargo is something you're keen on, but unless you know for a fact that LBA management have made no attempt to attract cargo to LBA, you're treading in dangerous ground.

This is a different scenario. It looks to me as if this is a purely export operation (lower Customs hurdles) and the charter operator is effectively self handling.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

If Teeside can attract a wide body operator I would be surprised given the length of their runway.

According to Wikipedia, these are the specifications for MME's and LBA's runways

Runway	Length (m)	Length (ft)	Elevation AMSL (m)	Elevation AMSL (ft)
MME 05/23	2,291	7,516	37	120
LBA 14/32	2,250	7,382	208	681

So, with LBA recently having had hopes of an A330 service to Pakistan, I can't see that MME should have any problems utilising a similar aircraft for cargo services of a comparable distance. The most important factor for operating an aircraft, is the TORA (Take Off Run Available), which is generally the full length of the runway. The LDA (Landing distance Available), is less of an issue even if the runway has a displaced threshold., as the aircraft will be lighter on fuel and landing speed will be lower than take off speed (Vr).

 

[LBAYORKIE]

According to Wikipedia, these are the specifications for MME's and LBA's runways

Runway	Length (m)	Length (ft)	Elevation AMSL (m)	Elevation AMSL (ft)
MME 05/23	2,291	7,516	37	120
LBA 14/32	2,250	7,382	208	681

So, with LBA recently having had hopes of an A330 service to Pakistan, I can't see that MME should have any problems utilising a similar aircraft for cargo services of a comparable distance. The most important factor for operating an aircraft, is the TORA (Take Off Run Available), which is generally the full length of the runway. The LDA (Landing distance Available), is less of an issue even if the runway has a displaced threshold., as the aircraft will be lighter on fuel and landing speed will be lower than take off speed (Vr).

I still think the runway is too short. The beauty of DSA was it could accommodate even the largest freighters. Having said that I wish them luck. A300Boy may have a more informed opinion on how suitable MME's runway is.

 

[Aviador]

There will be little difference between MME and LBA and so the limitations will be virtually the same. Direct flights to the West to places like New York, Toronto and Washington and to the East Dubai, Doha and Islamabad. Of course more tarmac would enable more options in the way or range and aircraft types but it will be doable for a limited long haul operation.

Something also probably worth noting is the requirement to use potential night flying slots for some cargo ops. If those slots are better used by passenger carrying services that enable further revenue potential from terminal concessions this might also sway LBAs priorities.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

There will be little difference between MME and LBA and so the limitations will be virtually the same. Direct flights to the West to places like New York, Toronto and Washington and to the East Dubai, Doha and Islamabad. Of course more tarmac would enable more options in the way or range and aircraft types but it will be doable for a limited long haul operation.

Something also probably worth noting is the requirement to use potential night flying slots for some cargo ops. If those slots are better used by passenger carrying services that enable further revenue potential from terminal concessions this might also sway LBAs priorities.

I dont think that would be a major consideration. I also can't see MME staying open 24hrs to accommodate occasional night ops.

 

[Aviador]

As per the previous discussions regarding cargo ops, so long as there is insufficient interest from airlines LBA will be unwilling to spend the money required to build a new cargo facility. We have to just accept that.

I'm sure DHL will have delved deep into its own pockets when it opened the huge facility at EMA. I don't for a minute think MAG or whoever owned EMA at the time made that investment on a wing and a prayer that its investment would turn into hard cash.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

There are no cargo facilities at Teeside and as far as I can remember never have been. At least at Leeds we have a purpose built cargo shed. At the moment we are talking about a charter operator using Citations and providing their own handling. I doubt if wide body freight operations will ever happen.

 

[ChrisBBB]

There are no cargo facilities at Teeside and as far as I can remember never have been. At least at Leeds we have a purpose built cargo shed. At the moment we are talking about a charter operator using Citations and providing their own handling. I doubt if wide body freight operations will ever happen.

The new cargo facility was opened a few months ago at Teesside.
Not huge but it is cargo dedicated unlike anything at LBA

Teesside Airport's New Cargo Handling Facility Open For Business - Teesside International Airport

Teesside International Airport has today (29 August) officially thrown open the doors to its new £2.5million state-of-the-art cargo handling facility. The purpose-built 21,000sq ft hangar provides cutting edge security screening technology, as well as handling, freight-forwarding, customs...

www.teessideinternational.com

 

[LBAYORKIE]

The new cargo facility was opened a few months ago at Teesside.
Not huge but it is cargo dedicated unlike anything at LBA

Teesside Airport's New Cargo Handling Facility Open For Business - Teesside International Airport

Teesside International Airport has today (29 August) officially thrown open the doors to its new £2.5million state-of-the-art cargo handling facility. The purpose-built 21,000sq ft hangar provides cutting edge security screening technology, as well as handling, freight-forwarding, customs...

www.teessideinternational.com

I stand corrected and I am impressed. Clearly Teeside can see the possibilities for cargo and have put their money where their mouth is. Can't knock their development strategy- no stone is left unturned and they certainly seemed to be energised.

 

[White Heather]

I stand corrected and I am impressed. Clearly Teeside can see the possibilities for cargo and have put their money where their mouth is. Can't knock their development strategy- no stone is left unturned and they certainly seemed to be energised.

It will take a lot more than being energised, a handful of airline flights and a few cargo flights to bring Teesside to the point where it's self sustaining. You could say DSA were energised 17 years ago, and since, but DSA is now gone, and the same could happen at Teesside/Darlington/Durham Tees Valley or whatever name it's got these days. I hope it avoids the same fate as DSA but I wouldn't bet my house on it. It's another loss maker and a drain on public funds. That can only happen for so long....

 

[LBAYORKIE]

It will take a lot more than being energised, a handful of airline flights and a few cargo flights to bring Teesside to the point where it's self sustaining. You could say DSA were energised 17 years ago, and since, but DSA is now gone, and the same could happen at Teesside/Darlington/Durham Tees Valley or whatever name it's got these days. I hope it avoids the same fate as DSA but I wouldn't bet my house on it. It's another loss maker and a drain on public funds. That can only happen for so long....

Well they obviously have self belief to invest 2.5m in a cargo operation. We can only wait and see what happens.

 

[ChrisBBB]

Well they obviously have self belief to invest 2.5m in a cargo operation. We can only wait and see what happens.

They’ve also got the aircraft maintenance facility.
To be fair to Teesside they’ve got far more space to play with I think (given lack of based aircraft compared to LBA.
They do seem to have a few strings to their bow to be fair, but agree with White Heather - it needs to become self sustained (financially) at some point

 

[lbaspotter]

I understand the ex cargo manager at DSA has moved to MME to set up the Cargo operation
They are now working to get thier BCP licence and are set to take the ex Magna Cargo Boeing 747 jumbo flights that use to operate into DSA.

Sadly the is no room at the inn for this type of cargo work at LBA anymore. It is what it is, and what it dose best. A sun & beach route airport.

 

[752]

Much rather be a bucket and spade airport then a dead duck with a weekly 747 cargo flight.. posted on the dried fruit forum.. very interesting read..

A few facts from the latest Teesside Airport Ltd accounts dated 14th Dec 2022 for the previous year.

The latest file downloads into a pdf presentation with a lot of financial information provided by the company/auditors.
https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

Profit and loss account: -£79m. page 13
Liabilities: -£52m

Expenses are shown on page 15 of the filing history file = -£2.3 million for the year. Not refurbishing the building SWB. More to do with exiting contracts.
Obligations for the rail terminal.

Page 15: Summary of non disclosure exemptions:
No cashflow presented by the company?
No disclosure of remuneration of key management personel.

Airport Directors payments: £212,000. I think they are the individuals named in the documents, (councillors?).

Assets under construction £1m

Depreciation expense -£602,114.

Employees 115, up from 89 in 2021. Staff costs: £4.1m.
Admin staff: 45 (2021 staff 27). Operational staff: 75.

Companies valuation of the asset: £30m. Up from £20m the previous year.

A lot of figures, and losses. Airport Pension plan is now paid by the councils.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Much rather be a bucket and spade airport then a dead duck with a weekly 747 cargo flight.. posted on the dried fruit forum.. very interesting read..

A few facts from the latest Teesside Airport Ltd accounts dated 14th Dec 2022 for the previous year.

The latest file downloads into a pdf presentation with a lot of financial information provided by the company/auditors.
https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

Profit and loss account: -£79m. page 13
Liabilities: -£52m

Expenses are shown on page 15 of the filing history file = -£2.3 million for the year. Not refurbishing the building SWB. More to do with exiting contracts.
Obligations for the rail terminal.

Page 15: Summary of non disclosure exemptions:
No cashflow presented by the company?
No disclosure of remuneration of key management personel.

Airport Directors payments: £212,000. I think they are the individuals named in the documents, (councillors?).

Assets under construction £1m

Depreciation expense -£602,114.

Employees 115, up from 89 in 2021. Staff costs: £4.1m.
Admin staff: 45 (2021 staff 27). Operational staff: 75.

Companies valuation of the asset: £30m. Up from £20m the previous year.

A lot of figures, and losses. Airport Pension plan is now paid by the councils.

I dont see that this is relevant. Plenty of businesses make a loss in the first few years. It's the vision that MME have that will carry them forward. I suspect they have been planning a move on cargo for some time, sussing out demand and generally researching the market.

 

[752]

Pretty sure MME has never turned a profit.. my point is more so how long can they mayor prop the airport up.. I don't see the point. Ive seen on linked in they was hiring out the departure lounge as space for functions on the quieter days.. lol. I personally can not see it taking off as a cargo hub. Yes your right LBAYorkie, they do have vision but that doesn't amount to much when the business is not there. time will tell. Ill be very surprised if a 747 lands there full of cargo.

 

[Finger66]

Let them focus on cargo at MME then it's one less airport LBA has to fight over pax with. Pax are LBAs bread and butter and there is no harm in that

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I understand the ex cargo manager at DSA has moved to MME to set up the Cargo operation
They are now working to get thier BCP licence and are set to take the ex Magna Cargo Boeing 747 jumbo flights that use to operate into DSA.

Sadly the is no room at the inn for this type of cargo work at LBA anymore. It is what it is, and what it dose best. A sun & beach route airport.

There's a purpose built cargo shed at LBA though.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2022

Pretty sure MME has never turned a profit.. my point is more so how long can they mayor prop the airport up.. I don't see the point. Ive seen on linked in they was hiring out the departure lounge as space for functions on the quieter days.. lol. I personally can not see it taking off as a cargo hub. Yes your right LBAYorkie, they do have vision but that doesn't amount to much when the business is not there. time will tell. Ill be very surprised if a 747 lands there full of cargo.

I would love to know if the DSA cargo manager had contacted LBA and if so whom. Still don't think 747's are doable at MME but time will tell. If it does work out for them all well and good. Incidentally I definitely do not agree with LBA being solely a bucket and spade airport. Never put your eggs in one basket.

 

[Statto]

I would love to know if the DSA cargo manager had contacted LBA and if so whom. Still don't think 747's are doable at MME but time will tell. If it does work out for them all well and good. Incidentally I definitely do not agree with LBA being solely a bucket and spade airport. Never put your eggs in one basket.

Something like 85% of all the traffic at UK airports (excluding Heathrow) is made of up people flying for leisure. So if 'bucket and spade' is a euphemism for 'leisure flying' then it would be very strange strategy for the airport management team not to focus on this part of the market. The secret of course is to make sure that they try and serve this demand across a variety of different airlines that offer different destinations, pricing, service etc. And it seems to me, that's exactly what they are trying to do.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Something like 85% of all the traffic at UK airports (excluding Heathrow) is made of up people flying for leisure. So if 'bucket and spade' is a euphemism for 'leisure flying' then it would be very strange strategy for the airport management team not to focus on this part of the market. The secret of course is to make sure that they try and serve this demand across a variety of different airlines that offer different destinations, pricing, service etc. And it seems to me, that's exactly what they are trying to do.

I can't argue with the 85% figure but the other 15% is an important part of the mix. If profit is to be maximised then all sources of revenue have to be considered and that includes cargo.