UK Cargo Operations

[Kevin Farnell]

Still don't think 747's are doable at MME but time will tell.

It all depends on where the flights would operate from/to. With MME's 7,516ft runway (slightly longer than LBA's 7,382ft. as well as having a lower elevation and no displaced thresholds for landing), all of mainland Europe should be possible and probably the east coast of the US. The west coast of the US and China would be out of bounds. Also, the flights inbound to MME would most likely be full, but may position out empty.

 

[lbaspotter]

It all depends on where the flights would operate from/to. With MME's 7,516ft runway (slightly longer than LBA's 7,382ft. as well as having a lower elevation and no displaced thresholds for landing), all of mainland Europe should be possible and probably the east coast of the US. The west coast of the US and China would be out of bounds. Also, the flights inbound to MME would most likely be full, but may position out empty.

Ok last one from me on this thread as I really don't think these flights had any chance of moving over to LBA due to lack of space at our airfield and our runway length sadly.
Also fact we are not open 24 hours a day during winter due to the ongoing runway maintenance would have hindered the operation if delays had occurred.

I really do hope Teesside welcome this work with open arms. Good look to them

The regular scheduled Cargo flights operated by Magna Aviation Boeing 747-400F's TF-AMC, TF-AMI, TF-AMM, TF-AMN, YF-AMP, TF-AMU use to operate as follows.

Flight no ------ Routing
"ACP2601" = Nairobi - Doncaster - Leige
"SXY0335" = Cario - Doncaster
"ABD346P" = Doncaster - Frankfurt

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Ok last one from me on this thread as I really don't think these flights had any chance of moving over to LBA due to lack of space at our airfield and our runway length sadly.
Also fact we are not open 24 hours a day during winter due to the ongoing runway maintenance would have hindered the operation if delays had occurred.

I really do hope Teesside welcome this work with open arms. Good look to them

The regular scheduled Cargo flights operated by Magna Aviation Boeing 747-400F's TF-AMC, TF-AMI, TF-AMM, TF-AMN, YF-AMP, TF-AMU use to operate as follows.

Flight no ------ Routing
"ACP2601" = Nairobi - Doncaster - Leige
"SXY0335" = Cario - Doncaster
"ABD346P" = Doncaster - Frankfurt

If MME's runway can accommodate 747F's than so could LBA's. Leeds' operating hours are ordinarily 24 hours aren't they? I agree that space could be an issue, they had the use of a huge ex RAF hanger at DSA which is suited for out of gauge traffic, however LBA's purpose built cargo shed is also very big. It was racked out but could easily be opened up to offer a huge floor area. It had large doors and accommodated the latest scanning equipment. All of this could be reinstated for less than MME spent. It also had a good sized office. What I'm saying is anything MME can do, so can LBA.

 

[Statto]

1. LBA is 24H, but heavily restricted by a quota. The airport will want to allocate that limited quota to airlines that offer the greatest commercial benefit to their business
2. Teesside Airport is part of the Tees Valley Freeport which offers Govt funded incentives for businesses involved in import / export. LBA is not part of a Freeport and in unable to offer similar incentives.
3. Teesside is publicly owned and is following a different commercial strategy to LBA which is a privately owned business. LBA's stated strategy is to grow to 7M passengers and they will prioritise investment on the things that, in their opinion, best allow them to execute that strategy.

 

[ChrisBBB]

If MME's runway can accommodate 747F's than so could LBA's. Leeds' operating hours are ordinarily 24 hours aren't they? I agree that space could be an issue, they had the use of a huge ex RAF hanger at DSA which is suited for out of gauge traffic, however LBA's purpose built cargo shed is also very big. It was racked out but could easily be opened up to offer a huge floor area. It had large doors and accommodated the latest scanning equipment. All of this could be reinstated for less than MME spent. It also had a good sized office. What I'm saying is anything MME can do, so can LBA.

The runways at the two airports may be similar in length but I don’t think LBA has the same available landing distance, which for a heavy cargo aircraft obviously impacts capabilities.
Stand to be corrected if my thoughts are wrong obviously

 

[Statto]

Overall they are a similar length so any difference in landing distance (at least on 32 ) cant be that great.

No displaced thresholds at MME, so pretty much the entirety of the strip is available for landing. So, yes, much longer than is available at LBA

 

[LBAYORKIE]

No displaced thresholds at MME, so pretty much the entirety of the strip is available for landing. So, yes, much longer than is available at LBA

I can't find the published distances so can t dispute this.

 

[Statto]

View attachment 27340

 

[LBAYORKIE]

View attachment 27340

So that compares with LDA on 32 of 1916m and on 14 of 1702 so you are right that's significant.

 

[Aviador]

There really isn't much in it so far as the runway is concerned. Landing aircraft are at their lightest and although not the most ideal length for a runway its still not to a level that impeeds them. The operating restrictions in way of night flying quotas will be more of a problem for all the reasons we're already aware of.

The runway work will always be ongoing even after a full resurfacing project is completed. Every airport in the country uses the quieter winter months to do on-going heavy maintenance on their runway and it is categorically not an LBA only problem. Usually airlines will receive ample warning of works and they arrange their flights around the work. (Think, there is a good reason why the M62 seems to be permanently closed for night work.)

My personal take on this is LBA trying to do cargo flights is a bit like Doncaster trying to do passengers. Let's stop trying to fix a problem that doesn't exsist. There's really no point in us trying to pretend the region is badly served by cargo operators when the csrgo hub at EMA is really there to serve the UK not just the East Midlands region.


.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Teesside has huge sums of money available from central government which replaced the EU Regeneration Fund monies they had/were due to receive. These are to be spent on regeneration of the whole area. Key projects are development of Teesport, the huge government office complex, redevelopment of the railway station and, of course development of the airport.

It must help that a substantial part of the treasury are in the process of moving to Darlington and the PM has his office in the aforememtioned office complex- which he visits weekly I am told.

Cabinet ministers are travelling back and forth on a regular basis so are familiar with the on going projects.

Seems to me they have the money to speculate and let's face it some of what they are doing is going to work out.

Ben Houchen is lauded as the man who is getting things done and seems popular. Some might think the money could be better spent but in reality it can only go towards regeneration project so not for public services etc.

 

[mdobuk21]

One air G-UNET 744 due into teeside tomorrow, this was the one which was at Doncaster for a little while.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

There's a buzz on the MME thread. They've got their BCP application approved and they're anticipating a weekly 747F from Nairobi with fresh produce.

Discuss here:

Teesside International Airport - General Thread

I understand all uk airports have to convert by 2024 so not long. It is so much easier :)

forums4airports.com

 

[Stagman]

Much rather be a bucket and spade airport then a dead duck with a weekly 747 cargo flight.. posted on the dried fruit forum.. very interesting read..

A few facts from the latest Teesside Airport Ltd accounts dated 14th Dec 2022 for the previous year.

The latest file downloads into a pdf presentation with a lot of financial information provided by the company/auditors.
https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

Profit and loss account: -£79m. page 13
Liabilities: -£52m

Expenses are shown on page 15 of the filing history file = -£2.3 million for the year. Not refurbishing the building SWB. More to do with exiting contracts.
Obligations for the rail terminal.

Page 15: Summary of non disclosure exemptions:
No cashflow presented by the company?
No disclosure of remuneration of key management personel.

Airport Directors payments: £212,000. I think they are the individuals named in the documents, (councillors?).

Assets under construction £1m

Depreciation expense -£602,114.

Employees 115, up from 89 in 2021. Staff costs: £4.1m.
Admin staff: 45 (2021 staff 27). Operational staff: 75.

Companies valuation of the asset: £30m. Up from £20m the previous year.

A lot of figures, and losses. Airport Pension plan is now paid by the councils.

A lot of investment has been made since takeover by TVCA in Feb 2019. In terminal buildings, hangars, atc, radars etc
So investment spending is going to have an effect on the bottom line along with Covid.


Incomes / Passengers / Movements for the last 5 financial years.

17-18 £7,448,353 / 121,437 / 21,848
18-19 £7,557,879 / 138,480 / 17,062
19-20 £7,745,305 / 141,801 / 16,389
20-21 £4,812,505 / 14,714 / 11,118
21-22 £7,686,643 / 83,921 / 20,130

22-23 £********** / 146,816 / 15,105 So far April- November, with still four months to go.
Passengers are +41,680 and Movements +3,186 up on same period in 2019-20.

The 2022-23 financial year will make interesting reading when they are published and will give us a better understanding of the postition the airport is in. Even with Covid still having some lingering effects during the 22-23 year. This year has seen the air schools expand their fleets, Draken expand fleet and new hangar, 2Excel 727 operations moved to Teesside and cargo operations started. With passenger numbers and aircraft movements up since TVCA purchase, it is certainly starting to head in the right direction.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

A lot of investment has been made since takeover by TVCA in Feb 2019. In terminal buildings, hangars, atc, radars etc
So investment spending is going to have an effect on the bottom line along with Covid.


Incomes / Passengers / Movements for the last 5 financial years.

17-18 £7,448,353 / 121,437 / 21,848
18-19 £7,557,879 / 138,480 / 17,062
19-20 £7,745,305 / 141,801 / 16,389
20-21 £4,812,505 / 14,714 / 11,118
21-22 £7,686,643 / 83,921 / 20,130

22-23 £********** / 146,816 / 15,105 So far April- November, with still four months to go.
Passengers are +41,680 and Movements +3,186 up on same period in 2019-20.

The 2022-23 financial year will make interesting reading when they are published and will give us a better understanding of the postition the airport is in. Even with Covid still having some lingering effects during the 22-23 year. This year has seen the air schools expand their fleets, Draken expand fleet and new hangar, 2Excel 727 operations moved to Teesside and cargo operations started. With passenger numbers and aircraft movements up since TVCA purchase, it is certainly starting to head in the right direction.

You have to speculate to accumulate and although passenger figures are currently low the airport has a very diverse portfolio which must be a good thing.

I wish we had MME's management team sometimes. They keep pushing forward relentlessly with one development being announced after the other.

Anyway my views on the lack of cargo handling capability at LBA are well known so I will say no more.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Was curious as to where the 2excel 727s had moved to. Would of been a nice addition at LBA although Lack of space for them is certainly an issue at our airport.

 

[Easy289]

No room at the Inn.

 

[LBA4EVER]

No room at the Inn.

There a good looking aircraft with a nice colour scheme

 

[LBAYORKIE]

No room at the Inn.

MME has the advantage of:

Lots of land and hangarage
Large amounts of free cash from central government (regional development fund)
Close to the A19/A1
Have railway station

Add in their dynamic management team with expansive thinking to the mix and you have a receipe for success.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

New thread for discussion of cargo operations, predominantly in the UK with emphasis on Northern Airports such as Leeds, Teesside, Newcastle, Liverpool and Manchester but discussions from the wider sector welcome.