Manchester Airport - General Thread

[Borneobob]

I was looking at Milan (MXP) on Wikipedia, and it shows that it handles around 20m passengers per annum. Looking at all the "holiday" routes that are served from there a large chunk of that 20m must be made up from those flights just like at MAN. They still manage to attract some great routes that are always being mentioned as potential destinations for airlines to serve from Manchester, i.e Seoul, Bangkok, Tokyo, Addis, Tehran, Delhi, Shanghai, Moscow, three different carriers serving Tel Aviv and many more...
Why does it seem so difficult to convince airlines that these routes would work from MAN? Or do we have too many small airports close to our catchment area taking passengers away to other hubs in Europe.

 

[David_itl]

Funny you should say that, BorneoBob...

"The debate over Heathrow’s third runway continues to rumble on. Meanwhile, Manchester, 200 miles to the north, is starting to become a serious contender to the capital’s two main airports, especially when it comes to long-haul routes."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahtu...h-long-haul-flights-and-lounges/#e2f4e7535633

 

[EGCC_MAN]

I was looking at Milan (MXP) on Wikipedia, and it shows that it handles around 20m passengers per annum.

The city of Milan is actually served by three main airports. Malpensa [19.5m], Linate [10m], Bergamo / Orio al Serio [11m].

Linate handles a huge slice of Italian domestic traffic and short-haul European business flights, plus a thriving executive scene. Bergamo is dominated by Ryanair and is basically a no-frills hotspot. Malpensa is home to long-haul, EasyJet, charter and mixed scheduled short-haul, plus a very active cargo operation. So the combined Milan air passenger market is around 40 million pax per annum. And the catchment is not just Northern Italy, but extends across nearby borders into Switzerland, France and Austria as well. A diverse upmarket region with a good mix of business, VFR, no-frills and inbound tourism (Alps, Italian Lakes) demand. Both Manchester and Milan have much to commend them individually to airline operators, but they do not offer a close comparison. The two markets are very different.

 

[Dobbo]

Very difficult to compare the markets, as EGCC says the Milan one is fragmented over three airports.

Equally, it could be said that the MAN catchment is spread over LPL, LBA, NCL, DSA. It's a matter of economic geography which is probably outside the scope of these forums.

What I would say is that MAN is not a million miles away from securing some of these desirable routes provided the current momentum is maintained. However, this is far from certain, and as we saw in 2008-10 things can go backwards pretty quickly.

 

[Dobbo]

The Japanese ambassador is in Manchester to discuss trade links. Nothing to indicate a direct flight is on the cards (over and above MANs previous call for one) but closer trade links can only bring a direct flight closer to reality.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ma...ssador-visits-manchester-discuss-12633280.amp

 

[ethanegcc]

Some great statistics.

AMS became MAN's largest route this year and the first to surpass one million passengers. But, how about a look from the Dutch side?

1. Number of Movements at AMS - 2016:

1 - LHR 13.223 -3.1%
2 - MAN 9.217 +29.5% (was 10th place.)
3- CDG 9.111 +1.4%
4 - FRA 8.180 -3%
5 - LCY 8.078 +0.5%

2. Number of Passengers on route - 2016:

1 - AMS-LHR 1.617.293 pax
2 - AMS-BCN 1.305.467
3 - AMS-CDG 1.185.238
4 - AMS-FCO 1.099.072
5 - AMS-LGW 1.070.745
6 - AMS-MAN 1.021.208 pax (was 8th place)

To be on par with FCO/LGW in terms of pax and above CDG/FRA in terms of movements for an airport as big as Schipol is very impressive. Quite pleased that Manchester appears so prominently in these figures.

 

[ethanegcc]

Runway 1 is out of action. Aircraft are currently landing and taking off on 23L, causing some congestion.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/live-updates-blaze-tunnel-under-12670963

 

[Land23R]

You may have seen this on the dried fruit forum. Not encouraging reading I'm afraid, but not totally unexpected either. We certainly need to get the Americans over here flying into MAN.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/feb/28/us-tourism-experiences-a-trump-slump

 

[Dobbo]

You may have seen this on the dried fruit forum. Not encouraging reading I'm afraid, but not totally unexpected either. We certainly need to get the Americans over here flying into MAN.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/feb/28/us-tourism-experiences-a-trump-slump

Given VS's trimming down of ambition over the past few days, Land23R is ahead of the game on this one.

It has been mentioned elsewhere that a cut to APD (or an APD "holiday" - which I think has been suggested by MAN) may help preserve strategically important routes. My feeling is that this may help links like e.g. SFO, LAX, JFK, SIN, HKG, PEK where a little support goes a long way. Quite how that affects the MEB3's relationship with MAN, I don't know.

It wont be anything in MAN's gift, and I expect it will be part of a devolved Greater Manchester authority deal.

What are your views on this?

 

[Jerry]

Given VS's trimming down of ambition over the past few days, Land23R is ahead of the game on this one.

It has been mentioned elsewhere that a cut to APD (or an APD "holiday" - which I think has been suggested by MAN) may help preserve strategically important routes. My feeling is that this may help links like e.g. SFO, LAX, JFK, SIN, HKG, PEK where a little support goes a long way. Quite how that affects the MEB3's relationship with MAN, I don't know.

It wont be anything in MAN's gift, and I expect it will be part of a devolved Greater Manchester authority deal.

What are your views on this?

I would be very surprised if any form of APD was devolved to a Manchester regional authority. The Welsh government has been lobbying for a while now to get APD devolved specifically Long haul APD so they can develop long haul program out of CWL. If it was devolved to MAN I can imagine the Welsh government would be pretty annoyed and angry and if they devolved it to both Manchester and Wales then guaranteed there would be a legal challenge from the owners of BHX and BRS. A cut in APD across the board would be a better option but I can't see the government doing it. It needs as much tax revenue as possible to prepare for Brexit.

 

[Dobbo]

Well if APD is devolved to Scotland that might be the hole in the Dyke.

Perhaps each devolved Government/City Mayor could designate something like 5-10 routes that might help. Who knows, possibly an overreaction to a relatively modest cut in previously planned growth.

 

[Jerry]

Well if APD is devolved to Scotland that might be the hole in the Dyke.

Perhaps each devolved Government/City Mayor could designate something like 5-10 routes that might help. Who knows, possibly an overreaction to a relatively modest cut in previously planned growth.

When it comes to Scotland I think people have to realise that their a special case.
Nominating a specific route could be considered favouring one airline over the other. A better route would just be reduce it country wide by 10 or 15% that way everyone benefits.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Given VS's trimming down of ambition over the past few days, Land23R is ahead of the game on this one.

It has been mentioned elsewhere that a cut to APD (or an APD "holiday" - which I think has been suggested by MAN) may help preserve strategically important routes. My feeling is that this may help links like e.g. SFO, LAX, JFK, SIN, HKG, PEK where a little support goes a long way. Quite how that affects the MEB3's relationship with MAN, I don't know.

It wont be anything in MAN's gift, and I expect it will be part of a devolved Greater Manchester authority deal.

What are your views on this?

Under EU state aid rules, member states must not vary national tax rates in a way that is more favourable to individual regions, as to do so would be to provide a selective economic advantage to businesses operating in those regions.

To comply with such rules the devolution of a tax power must meet the 'Azores criteria' that, broadly, require the individual regional authority to which they are devolved to have a sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy from central government: it's measured according to how the devolved authority is institutionally, procedurally and economically autonomous.

Clearly the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments meet these criteria but no region of England currently does. So far Wales has not had APD devolved to it. As Jerry points out there might be legal challenges from competitors if APD is devolved to Wales, particularly because the major airport and the only one of any size in the country is state owned which would mean the airport owners would be setting their own APD rates, something that might be seen as anti competitive.

If Greater Manchester is given a sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy in the future it could have APD devolved to it. However, to meet the Azores criteria central government funding for a future fiscally and economically autonomous Greater Manchester would be reduced by a sum equivalent to the amount of APD that central government would have collected in that area had APD not been devolved.

In other words, Greater Manchester would have to decide if it could afford to cut APD to the full amount that it would lose from central government funding. Scotland seems to have pulled back a bit on its original plans to axe APD completely or at least reduce it to nil (both have the same result) because it can't afford to do so, although that is still its long term aim.

Of course, post Brexit EU state aid rules would not apply but the UK government has intimated that it would still be likely to comply with many aspects of EU law and it will probably have to if it wants to secure any sort of realistic deal with the EU following departure.

 

[David_itl]

General interview with Ken O'Toole

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/what-keeps-business-leaders-up-12697569

 

[Aceshigh]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...chester-showcasing-region-smart-city-12720792

Interesting although not Man airport related as such but good to see and can only help growth and the airport.

That said I do wonder if MIDAS are in competition with the airport itself in terms of Airport City and indeed Media City and other cities on the NorthernPowerhouse?
Does the investment message become blurred compared to a central entity eg London?

 

[David_itl]

Today is the 60th anniversary of the tragic Viscount crash at Shadowmoss. RIP.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/nostalgia/manchester-wythenshawe-air-crash-1957-12736024

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Today is the 60th anniversary of the tragic Viscount crash at Shadowmoss. RIP.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/nostalgia/manchester-wythenshawe-air-crash-1957-12736024

I was in my early teens then and can't really remember it at the time. There wasn't the wall-to-wall news coverage that there is now although I'm sure that this tragedy was covered at the time by the rather rudimentary (by today's standards) tv news bulletins.

The newspaper article that commemorates this accident reminds readers of other air disasters with a Manchester connection.

 

[Dobbo]

I don't know if anyone's neem keeping tabs on the volume of high quality (and quite frankly huge) developments proposed for Manchester at the moment.

I don't want to kick start a property chat on here, but it is indicative of what MAN is capae of over the coming years, even before HS2/3 and the TP tunnel.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the fundamentals at MAN over the next 10-20 years are strong. They'll be the odd speed bump, but I'm optimistic about the future.

 

[Aceshigh]

I am !

At least 14 scrapers.

No city outside London comes close, infact I'm not sure any other city has ANY major developments that can compete with 1 let alone 14!

And all private money!

 

[Aceshigh]

Just another follow up on Dobbo's post.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/plans-out-landmark-tower-next-12751284

I mentioned the comparative situation with other cities outside London but to widen the scope there are few cities in Europe that can boast this level of growth.

If only the USA could see beyond London as Europe, Middle East and Asia.