Route Development & Rumours

[Coathanger16]

Ryanair again like Manchester schedules all over the place so no good for the business man

This is something I've noticed on a couple of routes from BHX. They often have ~7 flights a week but they aren't daily.

Warsaw (both Chopin and Modlin) for instance sees 6 flights per week but if you were a business man (or any traveler for that matter) looking to travel on Monday, Wednesday or Friday from BHX you'd find there were no flights. Wizz Air fly on a Saturday, Ryanair on a Sunday and both on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Why haven't Wizz or Ryanair planned their weekday flights for Mon, Wed or Fri? I would have thought travelling on Fridays/Mondays would be popular for both leisure travelers (long weekends) and business travelers (Monday - Friday).

I wonder how much traffic BHX loses by people looking to fly on certain days of the week and there not being any flights, yet multiple airlines operate the route at what would be a daily frequency if their schedules didn't overlap?

 

[hoody]

That my exact issue with VCE. Monarch flew on Saturdays. Nonfood for business. So instead I had to do a split journey with Brussels Airlines via Zavatem

 

[Brum X]

I agree.So why are we making comparisons with Easyjet at BRS and Flybe at BHX and saying if Flybe are forced out so be it? Easy over 50%,Flybe around 15%.
Despite their erratic route planning in the last few years they have maintained multi frequency routes in competition with the likes of Air France,KLM and Lufthansa. Most UK airports are dependent on one airline and BHX is not one of them but we are not LGW or MAN and never will be.

Becouse BHX need to broaden its horizons and look at new ways to provide growth and not keep relying on both Flybe and Jet2. I am making comparsions with Easyjet/Flybe because I would accept Easyjet into BHX (And stop all this we cant upset Flybe, oh yes we can) because they offer so much more growth potential IN MY OPINION than flybe at BHX.

And it would be an all Jet operation and not these plastic looking wheel crashing Dash 8s.

 

[mullion]

Oh that is really good upset your biggest based airline, the Dash actually does a very good job as it operates
all the routes that could not sustain a jet at a frequency that the business community desire. Manchester has picked up
many routes with the likes of S340/S2000/Do328 that just couldn`t work with anything bigger i:e Norwich
Lerwick, Shetland, Billund so don`t knock them

 

[mullion]

Oh that is really good upset your biggest based airline, the Dash actually does a very good job as it operates all the routes that could not sustain a jet at a
frequency that the business community desire. Manchester has picked up
many routes with the likes of S340/S2000/Do328 that just couldn`t work with anything bigger i:e Norwich, Lerwick, Shetland, Billund so don`t knock them

 

[rollo]

I think mullion has a good point re the dash re Capacity / frequency and Flybe in general as much as I would like to see an Easyjet base to me Bhx seem to be between a rock and a hard place on this do you stick with what you've got or go for - - - - or bust. There is obviously potential for Easyjet or Ryanair but of course its easy to say but someone has to take a gamble and put up the money. Then again we are only talking amongst ourselves and it's easy to spend other peoples money.

BHX desperately need a CEO with vision and real authority.

 

[Seasider]

[QUOTE=" And it would be an all Jet operation and not these plastic looking wheel crashing Dash 8s.[/QUOTE]

I hope that is not an omen, I'm flying one in 8 weeks time.

 

[Ray Finkle]

as much as I would like to see an Easyjet base to me Bhx seem to be between a rock and a hard place on this do you stick with what you've got or go for - - - - or bust.

That is the million dollar question, stick with what you know and risk those endless unserved routes remaining so indefinitely, or go for it and let the market decide? The latter could finally see Birmingham get services to those key European routes that look so hopeless at the moment and extra frequencies elsewhere to under served destinations, the risk though is it going the other way and ending up with less than before.

I know what I would like to see happen but I am not a route development professional, they're the ones who get paid to make such decisions.

This is something I've noticed on a couple of routes from BHX. They often have ~7 flights a week but they aren't daily.

Warsaw (both Chopin and Modlin) for instance sees 6 flights per week but if you were a business man (or any traveler for that matter) looking to travel on Monday, Wednesday or Friday from BHX you'd find there were no flights. Wizz Air fly on a Saturday, Ryanair on a Sunday and both on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Why haven't Wizz or Ryanair planned their weekday flights for Mon, Wed or Fri? I would have thought travelling on Fridays/Mondays would be popular for both leisure travelers (long weekends) and business travelers (Monday - Friday).

I wonder how much traffic BHX loses by people looking to fly on certain days of the week and there not being any flights, yet multiple airlines operate the route at what would be a daily frequency if their schedules didn't overlap?

If I was being cynical I'd possibly suggest that after years of stagnation Ryanair were finally spurred in to life by the arrival of other airlines. After a long period of being totally unserved they only added the likes of Madrid and Warsaw once Iberia, Wizz etc came on the scene. Was it a coincidence that the days of operation were almost identical?

 

[mullion]

In a one word answer NO!

 

[Brum X]

Oh that is really good upset your biggest based airline, the Dash actually does a very good job as it operates all the routes that could not sustain a jet at a
frequency that the business community desire. Manchester has picked up
many routes with the likes of S340/S2000/Do328 that just couldn`t work with anything bigger i:e Norwich, Lerwick, Shetland, Billund so don`t knock them

Right then BHX stuck in a rut and not going anywhere else anywhere soon. I think that is worth upsetting your biggest based airline and taking the risk. But i really dont see that Flybe are just going to up and away, they may reduce slightly on some routes that may be in competition with Easyjet but there main routes to the likes of GLA/EDI/BHD/JER/CDG/AMS will stay. The fares they charge on some of these routes, they will be around at BHX for a very long time.

 

[Brum X]

[QUOTE=" And it would be an all Jet operation and not these plastic looking wheel crashing Dash 8s.

I hope that is not an omen, I'm flying one in 8 weeks time. [/QUOTE]

Sorry mate im sure your flight will be fine but i was just trying to make the point that some people would probably choose the airline that was using a jet rather than a prop especially on longer flights to the likes of DUS/HAM etc.

 

[mullion]

Didn`t say they would up and go but any marginal routes might be chopped or cut back
and to be honest if I had operated the route for x years and someone just jumps in
when the airport company knows it is marginal ( not saying anything is ) I would not be too chuffed,
Flybe operates very few routes that could do well for other operators other than the likes of AMS
which is already served by KLM so very unlikely to do more than 1 a day max so really
only of use to holidaymakers

 

[Brum X]

Didn`t say they would up and go but any marginal routes might be chopped or cut back
and to be honest if I had operated the route for x years and someone just jumps in
when the airport company knows it is marginal ( not saying anything is ) I would not be too chuffed,
Flybe operates very few routes that could do well for other operators other than the likes of AMS
which is already served by KLM so very unlikely to do more than 1 a day max so really
only of use to holidaymakers

Yes but considering the likes of Flybe dont fly to places such as:
Rome
Athens
Lisbon
Seville
Bologna
Bilbao
Vienna
Venice
Alicante
Malaga
Tenerife
Faro

Flybe really dont have anything to worry about and this is what we are talking about, getting BHX connected or more connected to the places listed above.

 

[Jerry]

Rome

Venice

They do fly to them at CWL and i suppose it does depend on jet availability in the future i do wonder if they would look at them for BHX in the future.

 

[Coathanger16]

Yes but considering the likes of Flybe dont fly to places such as:
Rome
Athens
Lisbon
Seville
Bologna
Bilbao
Vienna
Venice
Alicante
Malaga
Tenerife
Faro

Flybe really dont have anything to worry about and this is what we are talking about, getting BHX connected or more connected to the places listed above.

Exactly - compare the places that Flybe fly to with the Dash (with the 195's leaving the fleet that's their main focus more than ever) with destinations that easyJet would serve and there's almost no overlap. If easyJet were to force flybe off a route we'd likely see a capacity increase on said route owing to the larger aircraft easyJet use (assuming they operate with the same frequency).

Although interesting this whole discussion is very academic - short of BHX paying easyJet to open a base here I for one don't see it happening (I'm not saying I don't want easyJet here, just that its highly unlikely).

Without easyJet how will BHX connect to those destination's listed above and others? I'd very much like to know what the RD team say about that.

They do fly to them at CWL and i suppose it does depend on jet availability in the future i do wonder if they would look at them for BHX in the future.

I think Cardiff is in a very unique, but lucky, position there. Can't see Flybe having that kind of operation anywhere else in the UK anytime soon.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Rome
Athens
Lisbon
Seville
Bologna
Bilbao
Vienna
Venice
Alicante
Malaga
Tenerife
Faro

Without easyJet how will BHX connect to those destination's listed above and others? I'd very much like to know what the RD team say about that.

Maybe British Airways Mytravelite BMIBaby Flybe Ryanair Monarch Norwegian Vueling BMIR Primera FlyBrum with those ex Malaysian A380's?

 

[thunderchild]

Maybe British Airways Mytravelite BMIBaby Flybe Ryanair Monarch Norwegian Vueling BMIR Primera FlyBrum with those ex Malaysian A380's?

I’m hearing through the grapevine they are looking at Jeddah via Athens after the succeess of the Hellenic Imperial service. Amritsar via Vienna with an optional whip round for the fuel bill is also being evaluated.

 

[Jerry]

I think Cardiff is in a very unique, but lucky, position there. Can't see Flybe having that kind of operation anywhere else in the UK anytime soon.

True but from January 2020 i believe they should have 15 E175s (i think they are recieving 4 in 2019/20 which will be in the purple livery i'm led to believe) and on the other forum there is doubt about them being able to operate from Southampton on the Med routes so there may be 1 aircraft spare which they could look to operate from BHX.

With the other routes i wonder if they could look at Aegean for Athens, TAP for Lisbon, Vueling for Seville and Bilbao, Austrian for Vienna or Laudamotion or LEVEL and maybe BA Cityflyer for Bologna or possibly Ryanair.

 

[58terminus]

Becouse BHX need to broaden its horizons and look at new ways to provide growth and not keep relying on both Flybe and Jet2.

Or relying on KLM, Air France,Lufthansa,Swiss.SAS, Aer Lingus etc?.
That is probably why BHX is still in a position where it does not have to pay airlines to use it.Growth for growths sake can be a dangerous path as indeed we have found out. The likes of Easyjet are not going to open a base operating
new unproven routes whatever the potential without the back up of operating on the proven routes and their is only
so much cream to share around.If some people want a 1 or 2 airline airport fair enough.
That's just MY OPINION

 

[Ray Finkle]

With the other routes i wonder if they could look at

Aegean for Athens, Been there done that, it didn't work.
TAP for Lisbon, They don't seem to be interested.
Vueling for Seville and Bilbao, Couldn't make AGP, ALC, TFS etc work so no chance of those two.
Austrian for Vienna, We have Eurowings to VIE and no way is there enough for two airlines.
Laudamotion or LEVEL and maybe BA Cityflyer for Bologna or possibly Ryanair. There could be huge potential for Ryanair with plenty of unserved markets for them to get their teeth in to. Sadly the vast majority of their recent growth looks to have been in response to other airlines and since those airlines have started to withdraw Ryanair seem stagnant again.