Flybe

[LBAYORKIE]

Its really about having appropriate aircraft to operate those routes. If VC went under there would be plenty of Dash8's available to thats not an issue. Remember also that many of the routes you mention already have PSO status so receive subsidies so may be desirable. I dont see how VC going bust could be bad for LBA exceot in the very immedate aftermath. Would be all good thereafter.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Flybe doesn't serve domestic UK markets exclusively. Some of the APD owed is the result of people making flights and paying the duty in respect of European destinations. In that sense Ryanair could be said to have the basis of a valid argument.

If the government is citing Flybe's ability to connect UK regions with each other as the reason for giving the airline owners a unique air passenger duty dispensation, then so too do the likes of easyJet and Loganiar.

Perhaps Flybe should only be allowed to defer APD payment to the government in respect of that part of the debt that relates to domestic journeys, with other airlines given the same opportunity.

It might be that the European Commission decides that the UK has acted illegally in its Flybe APD dispensation anyway.

Although the UK will cease to be an EU member from the end of this month, the trading relationship will remain the same and the UK will continue to follow the EU's rules during the transition period that will end on 31 December this year.

 

[White Heather]

Had Flybe gone bust, I was expecting Finger66 to at last launch his new airline, based at LBA, operate all ex Flybe routes, and also start up one or two more than we used to have, but no longer do. I fear that the odds of this happening were actually greater than these routes being picked up by the likes of Loganair. Although their CEO is from Yeadon and used to be LBAs biggest fan (or so he told me), he actually seems to have a bit of a downer on our airport at the moment - ever since he pulled the GLA route, blaming landing fees, rather than poor loads, unreliable service and high fares!

 

[Jerry]

Although the UK will cease to be an EU member from the end of this month, the trading relationship will remain the same and the UK will continue to follow the EU's rules during the transition period that will end on 31 December this year.

But can you see the UK government doing something to contravene EU rules, would be very embarrasing for this government to have the EU make it do a U turn i'd have thought.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

But can you see the UK government doing something to contravene EU rules, would be very embarrasing for this government to have the EU make it do a U turn i'd have thought.

The UK has been caught out in the past when its own actions have not met with the approval of the EC, or the European Court of Justice for that matter. Although on most occasions the matters were resolved by negotiation without getting to the Court those that did saw the UK win judgement in its favour in about a third of the 80 odd cases between 2003 and 2017 (the latest figures I can find). Doesn't sound a high percentage but it's actually better than most other EU countries.

In 2016 when the Northern Ireland Government tried to give United Airlines £9 million to keep open the Belfast-Newark route the European Commission declared it illegal because under EU state aid rules public authorities are not allowed to grant a specific airline an 'undue advantage'. That doesn't sound a million miles away from the UK government helping Flybe but not other airlines. If the EC does launch an investigation it will be fascinating to see if they differentiate between the United Airlines situation and the current Flybe one.

 

[jw2k]

What I don't understand is why the new owners of Flybe were either unwilling or unable to chuck in the extra money that was required to pay this upcoming APD bill? I can understand that a business without big investors could end up in a situation where it can't meet its commitments, but that doesn't seem to the case here, unless I'm missing something...?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

If a company with the resources of Virgin/Delta dont have the will to support VC why should the public?

 

[paully]

Had Flybe gone bust, I was expecting Finger66 to at last launch his new airline, based at LBA, operate all ex Flybe routes, and also start up one or two more than we used to have, but no longer do. I fear that the odds of this happening were actually greater than these routes being picked up by the likes of Loganair. Although their CEO is from Yeadon and used to be LBAs biggest fan (or so he told me), he actually seems to have a bit of a downer on our airport at the moment - ever since he pulled the GLA route, blaming landing fees, rather than poor loads, unreliable service and high fares!

Know what you mean Heather..Crossed swords some time ago with the CEO of Loganair whilst on PPrune having challenged him on his support for LBA..His response was to try to shut me up..I will therefore be diplomatic but say that my impressions was that his Leeds days were well behind him...end of

 

[LBAYORKIE]

They must have decided to put more funds in would be good money after bad, but its OK for the public to take the risk.

 

[stars&sids]

The UK has been caught out in the past when its own actions have not met with the approval of the EC, or the European Court of Justice for that matter. Although on most occasions the matters were resolved by negotiation without getting to the Court those that did saw the UK win judgement in its favour in about a third of the 80 odd cases between 2003 and 2017 (the latest figures I can find). Doesn't sound a high percentage but it's actually better than most other EU countries.

In 2016 when the Northern Ireland Government tried to give United Airlines £9 million to keep open the Belfast-Newark route the European Commission declared it illegal because under EU state aid rules public authorities are not allowed to grant a specific airline an 'undue advantage'. That doesn't sound a million miles away from the UK government helping Flybe but not other airlines. If the EC does launch an investigation it will be fascinating to see if they differentiate between the United Airlines situation and the current Flybe one.

The German government loaned Condor over €300 million last year to keep them running after the Thos Cook collapse. I don’t remember any outcry about that, or any reporting of a breach of EU regulations there.

 

[Len Fish]

The EU’s reasoning behind allowing the Condor rescue:
“The Commission found that the measure will help ensure the orderly continuation of flight services, in the interest of air passengers. At the same time, the strict conditions attached to the loan and its duration limited to six months will reduce the distortion of competition potentially triggered by the State support to a minimum.

The Commission therefore concluded that the measure is compatible with EU State aid rules.”
The EU also stressed that Condor was, in fact, a profitable airline but that it’s liquidity had been siphoned off by its parent company Thomas Cook in its attempt to stay afloat.
Seems the Germans had done their homework in order to get past the EU regulations, not too sure about our own Government in the current situation though.

 

[Bigman]

Maybe Jet2 should give regional services a crack. They could use something like ATR72’s and operate as Jet2Regional. They could operate routes such as LBA-NQY, MAN-EXT, SOU-GLA, ABZ-BHX, EDI-SEN, CWL-NCL which could be used as feeders into other services at their main bases.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I think that would be a massive distraction from their core business. These routes would suit Loganair or Eastern who have experience of running regional airlines

 

[The Pole]

Maybe Jet2 should give regional services a crack. They could use something like ATR72’s and operate as Jet2Regional. They could operate routes such as LBA-NQY, MAN-EXT, SOU-GLA, ABZ-BHX, EDI-SEN, CWL-NCL which could be used as feeders into other services at their main bases.

Bring back LBA-BHD or BFS - Flybe's fares are ridiculous

 

[Jerry]

Bring back LBA-BHD or BFS - Flybe's fares are ridiculous

Or maybe Flybes fares are about the correct price for such a route but people expectations are that they should be uber cheap?

 

[ChrisBBB]

Bring back LBA-BHD or BFS - Flybe's fares are ridiculous

I’ve flown FlyBe to Belfast en route to work in Derry a number of times, always the first and evening flights on return and don’t think I’ve ever paid more than £140 - generally booked with a couple of weeks notice.
I think that’s more than reasonable?

 

[jason1-11]

I flew LBA-BHD 3 times last year and each time the aircraft was near as damn it full so they must be doing something right.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Flybe’s fares are always ridiculous....I can get to The Algarve for half the price.

Is that flying Ryanair?
If so it’s no surprise .. and it’s also no surprise they wine and moan they’ve had to “revise profits” as they charge stupidly low prices that probably doesn’t even cover their cost base for the flight per seat.

 

[Jerry]

Any route that gets put up as a PSO would have to tendered for. Any airline could apply.

 

[Jobsagoodun]

Flybe’s fares are always ridiculous....I can get to The Algarve for half the price.

But that would be comparing apples to pears. Domestic services require frequency to be viable for business users. I would ask if any operator from LBA to FAO is offering 4/5 return services per day, or are they simply putting more passengers on fewer flights? If the latter then the operating costs are spread over more passengers and thus each £ paid will enable you to travel further.