Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Nuffsaid]

The point with cargo is that it can come in from anywhere. Distribution across southern Wales up to the midlands, southwest and m4 corridor. Tolls are now removed from the bridge. No restrictions at the airport for flight times. Runway is a good length. Some cargo facilities already but agree they would need upgrading. Proven capabilities during the covid-19 epidemic. Amazon distribution, food distribution. Diversifying the product offering beyond reliance on passenger traffic. The question is what cargo could the carriers pickup for the outbound?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The point with cargo is that it can come in from anywhere. Distribution across southern Wales up to the midlands, southwest and m4 corridor. Tolls are now removed from the bridge. No restrictions at the airport for flight times. Runway is a good length. Some cargo facilities already but agree they would need upgrading. Proven capabilities during the covid-19 epidemic. Amazon distribution, food distribution. Diversifying the product offering beyond reliance on passenger traffic. The question is what cargo could the carriers pickup for the outbound?

CAA stats for the calendar year 2019 show this breakdown of freight movement across UK airports. The top ten airports are shown below - in tonnes.

Heathrow 1,587,486
East Midlands 335,948
Gatwick 110,358
Manchester 108,382
Stansted 224,139
Luton 35,761
Birmingham 29,866
Belfast International 25,095
Edinburgh 19,410
Doncaster-Sheffield 17,647

Cardiff handled 1,803 tonnes and was 15th in the list.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

The point with cargo is that it can come in from anywhere. Distribution across southern Wales up to the midlands, southwest and m4 corridor. Tolls are now removed from the bridge. No restrictions at the airport for flight times. Runway is a good length. Some cargo facilities already but agree they would need upgrading. Proven capabilities during the covid-19 epidemic. Amazon distribution, food distribution. Diversifying the product offering beyond reliance on passenger traffic. The question is what cargo could the carriers pickup for the outbound?

It's not about what CWL can offer, or what Cargo Airlines are willing to come in. It's about where the distribution network is best placed. Where the central cargo centres are for companies. There may be distribution centres in and around South Wales, but they aren't the core central centres, they are almost sub cargo centres. CWL isn't really central in the UK to easily distribute across the country. If you were looking to import/export Cargo as a business, you'd be wanting quick access to road and rail networks that branch throughout the UK, not add additional time in road transport moving items around the country. That's why EMA is already the regional Airport for cargo. It's centrally located. It would be hard to compete with that.

 

[Nuffsaid]

Some very good points you raise.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I watched the live streaming of Deb Bowen Rees (CWL CEO) and Spencer Birns (CWL Chief Commercial Officer) giving evidence this afternoon to the WG's Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee.

They had briefed the committee prior to the meeting so anything we might have found ‘interesting’ would have been said then if it was going to be said at all. Nothing startling was said in the committee public session which lasted for just under half an hour.

I made some notes so will summarise the points as they were brought up.

1. Nothing was said about Loganair when the question of lost carriers came up. The impact of the loss of Flybe was emphasised.

2. The airport can usually expect around £2 million per month in revenue so from March to June they will have lost around £8 million in revenue,

3. They might need a short-term or emergency loan to deal with the effects of COVID-19 but if so and how much will be decided later.

4. Two projects have been put on hold. £6 million was to have been spent on new generation security at the insistence of the DfT but the DfT has put this on hold for a year across all airports. There was also a requirement to spend £1 million on new air space requirements below 7,000 but the airport has decided to postpone this expenditure. In fact, the security question was brought up again later in the meeting and the CEO then said that because of the pandemic the airport was no longer in a position to pay for the required new arrangements.

5. The CEO said she was ‘disappointed’ at the UK Government’s quarantine arrangements as is the industry generally. She thinks that other arrangements could be made such a individual testing or ‘air bridges’.

6. The CEO also said that the pandemic has had an ‘enormous’ impact on the airport. She also said that the UK government's interpretation of airport security financial assistance left smaller airports at a disadvantage as they still had many of the fixed costs of larger airports. According to the CEO the German Government pays for all airport security measures in that country.

7. The priority at the moment is to ensure stability with existing carriers. Given the scale of the pandemic ramifications, airlines would in the first instance be looking to rebuild at large airports such as Heathrow. Getting new airlines is therefore particularly difficult at the moment but they are always speaking with airlines.

8. When asked about the master plan it was said that in the light of the pandemic it might have to be reviewed in the next couple of years.

9. The CEO also gave a brief overview of the virus precautions that passengers will see when the airport reopens to commercial flights.

 

[TOM100]

Did I also hear they have to pay the WG £69m as the total taxpayer outlay ?

 

[Jerry]

Cargo wise the focus probably should be on the Welsh food industry and Amazon.
Airlines wise at the moment we just gotta hope that the current airlines don't cut too much especially TUI, Ryanair and Vueling as they'll be the airlines bringing in the passengers that pay for long term car parking which is a big source of revenue for the airport.
I just do hope that they can attract an airline to operate to even just Ireland at least if Loganair is not going to be interested in operating Scotland.

 

[TOM100]

I hate to be a doomsayer but this is not a viable business at the moment - it is haemorrhaging cash and if the best Spencer can say is “we had some NHS training flights” - which it wasn’t - it was Maleth using the airport for some days with an aircraft with NHS written on it - that’s scary.

I want to hear about how they think that they can grow and make revenue not be a solely charitable business.

Are these the right people to lead a recovery ?

 

[Jerry]

Are these the right people to lead a recovery ?

Considering the challenges that the airport will face in its recovery who else could do better? Even if you brought in a new CEO or head of routedevelopment with better connections with airlines like Easyjet or BA they aren't going to touch CWL. When you have airlines like Loganair who should be snapping up routes like CWL-EDI not even interested it's going to be a hard long road to recovery.
At the moment I'd imagine that a lot of thier focus will be on the airlines still serving Cardiff especially Ryanair.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I hate to be a doomsayer but this is not a viable business at the moment - it is haemorrhaging cash and if the best Spencer can say is “we had some NHS training flights” - which it wasn’t - it was Maleth using the airport for some days with an aircraft with NHS written on it - that’s scary.

I want to hear about how they think that they can grow and make revenue not be a solely charitable business.

Are these the right people to lead a recovery ?

You're starting to sound like you have it in for the management team? That very same management team that was leading the path to recovery, a recovery that was doing well until it hit a brick wall only a few months ago.

Name any transport business that is viable at the moment?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Did I also hear they have to pay the WG £69m as the total taxpayer outlay ?

They have a loan facility of £71 million from the WG and have so far drawn down £59.4 million of that. In addition there is interest on the debt of £2.5 million which, adding the two sums together, SB described as a balance of £61.9 million

 

[TheLocalYokel]

At the moment I'd imagine that a lot of thier focus will be on the airlines still serving Cardiff especially Ryanair.

That was what SB told the committee when he said that their priority at the moment is 'ensuring stability' of existing airlines.

 

[StanMan]

Jerry's comment (2207) re freight is quite correct in respect of food. Sorry to sound mysterious, but I do have an involvement I can't disclose. The far east is a major market for Welsh foods. There is an opportunity to increase the export of temperature controlled food freight through QR but CWL (apparently) cant currently handle temperature controlled shipments and even if it could, even the most optimistic potential volumes would fail to justify anything other than underfloor carriage. Currently, most chilled food exports from Wales are road shipped to other airports for consolidation into larger shipments. Other than QR, it would regrettably appear that CWL's opportunities for freight are limited to ad hoc.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

A major factor is the cost of flying freight in Qatar out of Cardiff is more expensive than flying it from Manchester or Heathrow. There is far more options & capacity in London area so the cost is far more competitive.

there are still articulated lorries even after the introduction of Qatar heading down the M4 to London and up the M6 to Manchester on a daily basis.

Cardiff Airport lost its freight and mail services years ago when TNT left. Then there was the mail flights that used to drop mail off at Cardiff which lasted a 12 month or so.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

CWL can't really be compared to Bournemouth and definitely not Kemble. There is still TUI with at least 2 based aircraft, KL, QR, VY and FR. Which is a bigger offering than TUI and FR at BOH with 1 aircraft each. Whats important in the short term is keeping the current carriers at CWL and maintaining what is currently offered.
The question regarding cargo, is where would the Cargo be coming from/going to in South Wales? Only really EMA sees a big Cargo operation in the UK as it's fairly central to everything.

I didn’t say it’s Bournemouth yet but it could get there, and you’re right, perhaps Kemble is a bit far fetched.

I have my doubts though if Qatar will return for the long run but I hope they do.

The core routes to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paris and Dublin need an operator. Otherwise we will be on the path to BOH.

 

[TOM100]

I don’t have it in for the management team and yes they have been successful (with WG support in attracting QR and 4 years ago BE) but I just would like to hear some more forward thinking strategic initiatives to reduce losses and attract more business (whatever that looks like) rather than passive statements. How are they taking cost out permanently to reflect the new demand (name me an aviation business that isn’t doing this at the moment). They could say we have x target airlines, we are putting together a marketing fund, we have formed a special group, we have identified x non aviation areas to focus on etc etc - like most businesses would do. That’s the point I am making.

 

[Jerry]

Jerry's comment (2207) re freight is quite correct in respect of food. Sorry to sound mysterious, but I do have an involvement I can't disclose. The far east is a major market for Welsh foods.

For the food industry it would need investment. Is there room for instance for a cold store to be developed onsite?
I also wonder if they would be better off employing a logistics consultant who can go out and work with suppliers to use the airport.

there are still articulated lorries even after the introduction of Qatar heading down the M4 to London and up the M6 to Manchester on a daily basis.

Too extent that's always going to happen but like passengers we need to lessen the amount heading out of the country. I know people will think I'm mad but I also think we need to do it for strategic reasons as a country, we are far too reliant on exporting via England and have no direct air cargo, freight train (as far as I know) or ferry link to continental Europe.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I don’t have it in for the management team and yes they have been successful (with WG support in attracting QR and 4 years ago BE) but I just would like to hear some more forward thinking strategic initiatives to reduce losses and attract more business (whatever that looks like) rather than passive statements. How are they taking cost out permanently to reflect the new demand (name me an aviation business that isn’t doing this at the moment). They could say we have x target airlines, we are putting together a marketing fund, we have formed a special group, we have identified x non aviation areas to focus on etc etc - like most businesses would do. That’s the point I am making.

What is your view on the possibility that CWL will not be profitable for the foreseeable future? Over the past year the idea has been put forward more than once at WG committee meetings that CWL is a vital faciility for Wales and, with that in mind, running a profitable airport company although desirable is not essential as long as the airport brings value to the country in other ways.

The Covid-19 situation will have made profitability more elusive.

 

[geoff]

I think there is very little chance of CWL becoming profitable in the next few years unless they manage to persuade a large low cost operator to the airport, and that in the present circumstances is nigh on impossible, although I do think the airport could benefit Wales in other ways, such as export of goods, and some inbound tourism.

 

[Jerry]

With the prospect of no TUI until the summer. No domestic flights with Loganair and Eastern Airways and assuming Qatar Airways, KLM, Vueling and Ryanair do restart it's going to be a very quiet 9 to 10 months for the airport. On some days it'll only have Qatar Airways and KLM if TUI don't return for the winter.
If it's that quiet then airside I can only see them opening WH Smith and Costa coffee.