Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Jerry]

On another forum someone has posted what seems to be a statement from Spencer Birns about Jet2 arrival at BRS. At the moment though i can't find any official links to that statement on the airports social media or news section or in articles and the poster has yet to post a link. If i find it i'll link it. I've also noticed that WalesOnline haven't covered it as far as i know.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

On another forum someone has posted what seems to be a statement from Spencer Birns about Jet2 arrival at BRS. At the moment though i can't find any official links to that statement on the airports social media or news section or in articles and the poster has yet to post a link. If i find it i'll link it. I've also noticed that WalesOnline haven't covered it as far as i know.

You might have already read an additional post from that poster who says the statement from Spencer Birns was to a friend who has a vested interest in CWL. It's very formal language for something written to a friend.

 

[Jerry]

You might have already read an additional post from that poster who says the statement from Spencer Birns was to a friend who has a vested interest in CWL. It's very formal language for something written to a friend.

Yes i've seen that now. It sounds like it's a reply by the PR team with Spencers name on it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The Westminster Government is to provide a £100 million finance package from next year to 24 English airports. It will be used to address fixed costs and be the equivalent to the business rates liabilities of each airport in 2020/21, capped at £8million per site and subject to certain conditions.

It now remains to be seen what the Welsh Government will do to support CWL.

 

[Jerry]

The Westminster Government is to provide a £100 million finance package from next year to 24 English airports. It will be used to address fixed costs and be the equivalent to the business rates liabilities of each airport in 2020/21, capped at £8million per site and subject to certain conditions.

It now remains to be seen what the Welsh Government will do to support CWL.

Is it a grant or loan?
It will be interesting to see what they do. Politically it could untie their hands in that they can say that they are just matching funds that English airports are getting.

 

[geoff]

If the Westminster Government is providing money for English airports, shouldn't the devolved Nations be getting a percentage of that figure, as per the Barnet formula?

 

[Jerry]

If the Westminster Government is providing money for English airports, shouldn't the devolved Nations be getting a percentage of that figure, as per the Barnet formula?

Not sure as aviation isn't devolved and it could be classed as a grant or loan to independent businesses even though some are publicly owned rather than an increase on health spending say which is a government department and devolved and would involve a Barnett consequence.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

If the Westminster Government is providing money for English airports, shouldn't the devolved Nations be getting a percentage of that figure, as per the Barnet formula?

This is the ridiculous situation we have with UK governance at the moment. The Westminster Government is the de facto government for England but when it is acting in that way there seems nothing clearcut about how the other nations should be treated to compensate. Equally if Westminster hadn't come up with this initiative but the WG had done something for CWL out of its own budget there would not necessarily be a reverse 'Barnett compensation' to Westminster on behalf of England if Westminster did nothing for English airports.

APD devolution can easily be thrown into this particular mix too as part of the overall argument.

We've seen the anomalies with the virus with some Welsh constituency Labour and Conservative MPs voting on the lockdown measures for England (Plaid and the Scots Nats abstained). No doubt some will do so again when the new tier proposals for England are put to a Westminster vote.

The entire system is madness. If we are going to have a federal system let's have a proper one with all the Home nations having their own government with equal powers and responsibilities. Currently the 'English government' is ruled by a cabinet that includes MPs representing Welsh and Scottish constituencies.

 

[geoff]

I agree with you TLY, the sooner England gets its own devolved government the better, it would prevent a lot of these seemingly cross border difficulties which keep cropping up almost at weekly frequencies, although I do wonder if the UK would remain intact. In respect of Defence and the Armed services I feel it would have to.

 

[Jerry]

Could be helpful for KLM when they return and if the airport are trying to attract Aer lingus regional back.

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[Jerry]

Summary of what so far is available for Summer 2021 from Cardiff. Sample from a week in August
UK and Ireland Updated 4/12/20
Anglesey 10 weekly Eastern Airways
Belfast City 6 weekly Eastern Airways
Spain, Portugal and Canary Islands
Palma de Mallorca 11 weekly flights TUI and Vueling and Wizz Air
Malaga 9 weekly flights Vueling, Ryanair and TUI
Alicante 10 weekly flights Vueling and TUI and Wizz Air
Faro 5 weekly flights Ryanair and TUI and Wizz Air
Ibiza 3 weekly flights TUI
Menorca 2 weekly flights TUI
Tenerife 5 weekly flights TUI and Wizz Air
Lanzarote 2 weekly flights TUI
Gran Canaria 1 weekly flight TUI
Reus 1 weekly flight TUI
Greece, Cyprus and other European destinations
Amsterdam 20 weekly flights KLM
Rhodes 2 weekly flights TUI
Kos 2 weekly flights TUI
Corfu 4 weekly flights TUI and Wizz Air
Paphos 2 weekly flights TUI
Zante 2 weekly flights TUI
Bourgas 1 weekly flight TUI
Larnaca 3 weekly flight TUI and Wizz Air
Heraklion 4 weekly flight TUI and Wizz Air
Keffalonia 1 weekly flight TUI
Dubrovnik 1 weekly flight TUI
Turkey, Tunisia and Qatar
Dalaman 3 weekly flights TUI
Antalya 2 weekly flights TUI
Enfidha 1 weekly flight TUI
Doha 7 weekly flights Qatar Airways

In total so far there will be up to 118 weekly departures for Summer 2021 of course this is all subject to change.
There will also be 6 based/overnighted aircraft 3 TUI 737 800, 1 Wizz Air A321, 1 KLM E175/E190 and 1 Eastern Airways J41.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There always seems to be a lot of interest in CWL matters which, if reflected in passenger numbers, would make CWL a top ten airport.

On the Dried Plum for instance the previous CWL thread ran for 3 years and 3 months and generated 1,904 posts and over 708,000 views. Compare that with the previous BRS thread that ran for the same period and for the same length of time but it only attracted 358,000 views and 567 posts.

The new CWL thread began on 26 November and has already had 5,463 views and 47 posts. The new BRS thread began nearly three weeks earlier on 6 November yet has had only seven posts and 994 views.

I wonder why this is. I don't think it's because CWL has a huge number of regular posters. When CWL matters crop up there always seem to be plenty of regular DP posters from other forums on that website who appear to have an interest in CWL and post accordingly when the airport is in the news. It doesn't happen with BRS or other smaller airports although the likes of Southend and Teeside also seem to have a disproportionate amount of interest on that website in relation to their size.

 

[Jerry]

I wonder why this is. I don't think it's because CWL has a huge number of regular posters.

I think a lot of it can be political, some people are in general just negative about the airport while i some do have a genuine interest in the airport but i think CWL is an airport that is a bit up and down in that it goes through cycles of boom and bust whereas Bristol is just a steady successful airport. If you compare the announcement of Jet2 compared to Wizz and it does seem people commented more about Wizz maybe because it was more of a shock than Jet2 turning up at BRS? What is good is that for a change the talk was about something positive!

Also looking at the 2 airports and their recent announcements it does seem that both airports attracted airlines that filled the gaps in their individual networks. BRS attracted Jet2 to replace Thomas Cook and CWL attracted the long sort after based LCC airline to hopefully make it competitive with BRS.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I also think that Bristol as a city flies under the radar in all sorts of ways. I remember having a discussion with Peter Phillips on his Wales Air Network (WAN) forum around ten years ago about that very thing when he could not understand how such a city's airport could outpoint a nearby capital city'a airport.

John Betjeman (later Poet Laureate and remembered with a huge statue at St Pancras station) writing of Bristol in the 1950s - he said it was his favourite English city - averred that it was a city that kept itself very much to itself. There is an element of that still. Like its airport it gets on with what it is good at with little attention paid to it from outside.

I think that you are right about the political angle with CWL and a fair number of 'out of town' posters to the DP CWL thread do like to take a negative stance. That said, the airport does generate a lot of interest amongst aviation watchers which can't be a bad thing.

 

[Jerry]

I think that you are right about the political angle with CWL

There does seem to be an obsession from some about the WG owning the airport and the assumption that they subsidise everything with big cash payments and that every airline is being paid to be there.
But I've also noticed that same assumption doesn't happen for Manchester and Birmingham who are both owned by the local authorities.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There does seem to be an obsession from some about the WG owning the airport and the assumption that they subsidise everything with big cash payments and that every airline is being paid to be there.
But I've also noticed that same assumption doesn't happen for Manchester and Birmingham who are both owned by the local authorities.

I note they are at it again today on the DP.

I don't know if the difference is that CWL is owned by a government and that BHX and MAN are part-owned by a consortium of local authorities.

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan, the owners of Bristol Airport, have a 48.25% stake in BHX and the Australian IFM Investors have a 35.5% stake in Manchester Airport Holdings (MAG) the owners of MAN, STN and EMA.

Perhaps if CWL had a substantial private sector interest in the airport company there would be less ammunition for the detractors to fire.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re my previous post, I forgot to add that that the Conservative mayor of Tees Valley Combined Authority has come in for some stick on that forum for apparently splashing public money to attract airlines. Teesside Airport is 25% part-owned by Stobart Aviation with the Teesside Combined Authority owning the rest so perhaps a private sector involvement doesn't always see off those who want to whinge.

 

[Nigel B]

Just a thought.
Maybe because CWL is "owned" by the Labour WG, the many calls for APD to be devolved to Wales are declined by the UK Tory
Gov, as it would not like CWL to be seen as successfull under Labour control, so it would hinder that in any way it could?.
As i said just a thought..

 

[KARFA]

why can't CWL be successful with APD? it seems the argument is CWL can only be successful if they undercut other nearby airports by not charging APD for departures but can't be successful if there is a level playing field?

i suppose the other question would be if they are not going to charge APD where does the money come from to make up the shortfall, what gets taxed or cut in Wales to make up for scrapping APD for CWL?

 

[Jerry]

Just a thought.
Maybe because CWL is "owned" by the Labour WG, the many calls for APD to be devolved to Wales are declined by the UK Tory
Gov, as it would not like CWL to be seen as successfull under Labour control, so it would hinder that in any way it could?.
As i said just a thought..

I'm not sure the UK government cares about CWL that much to deliberately sabotage it like that. In general I think they don't see CWL as important and want to protect English airports that benefit from the leakage of passengers from CWLs catchment area.

why can't CWL be successful with APD?

CWL can be successful as a regional bucket and spade airport with APD with the right airline but can it be successful as the national airport for Wales with it?
How does it regain lost routes like Edinburgh, Paris, Dublin, Barcelona, Madrid, Milan, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Munich and Rome to connect Wales with Europe for business and inbound tourism. How can it attract airline's like Aer Lingus, Air France, Loganair, Ryanair and Wizz to operate routes like that which are going to be marginal from CWL at best are expected by the public to be operated from an airport like Cardiff.
As for whether there's a level playing field between airports like Cardiff and Bristol well I guess that's going to be down to opinion but I do think we need to see devolving APD more as investment in Wales rather than undercutting England.