Daily Direct Link from BHX to the US

[Aviador]

Exactly the same could be said for the Yorkshire region but more flights would reduce yields at their primary airports. I still honestly don't believe there is sufficient demand to make US routes successful from more airports otherwise airlines like Zoom and FlyGlobespan would still be flying.

 

[RichL]

I genuinely have this argument with myself mainly that if I draw a circle 10 miles from the middle of BHX runway that all the people in that area- just 10 miles - all have to go down to Heathrow or up to Manchester just to get a flight to the USA.

Ten miles. Now make that 20 or even 30 yet BHX still cannot command ONE flight to America.

Don't tell me there isn't any market for it. I remember two Continental flights a day at one point and all pretty full. If I couldn't get on 27 I managed to get a seat on 33 (preferred to be honest)

Something is very wrong.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there RichL, totally agree with you,if an aircraft is virtually full and on its way to USA from bhx airport,then this tells me that demand is there, but there has to be a reason why no flights, costs of tickets to fly from the airport, depending on what the airline is paying bhx to land and tack off from the airport, that is a big factor... Andyc

 

[Matt995]

Hi there RichL, totally agree with you,if an aircraft is virtually full and on its way to USA from bhx airport,then this tells me that demand is there, but there has to be a reason why no flights, costs of tickets to fly from the airport, depending on what the airline is paying bhx to land and tack off from the airport, that is a big factor... Andyc

Of course there is plenty of demand to fly from BHX to the USA, but only at the right price!!! An airline is not going to sell tickets at a loss, and we all know there in no demand for first class from BHX, even Emirates have realised that, don't most of the transatlantic flights from Heathrow rely on first class tickets at high prices to keep them in profit?

We could easily sell 200 seats a day to New York at an economy price for the leisure traveller, but the airline/flight couldn't exist on that alone. Business travel still hasn't picked up after covid, and with out the first class tickets, no premium US airline will be interested in serving any regional UK airport, alone with London Airways (BA) and Virgin.

and don't forget most American's only know one Birmingham, Birmingham Alabama, not Birmingham UK!

In my honest opinion, I can't see a regular BHX-USA link for at least another 5 years, much better for BHX to concentrate its efforts on the Middle East, India, Asia etc..

 

[Nethercote2019]

Very low demand from U.S side I’m afraid … there is only London or Edinburgh or Liverpool to Americans & the demand from U.K. is not helped by the £ to $ rate

 

[thunderchild]

From recent experience New York has gone crazy expensive - we knew it had gone up and despite getting a decent(ish) exchange rate we certainly did have to justify if a few things were really worth it - a glass of wine was averaging $15 then you’ve got the service charge on top. Thankfully the portion sizes haven’t changed over there so we were only really wanting breakfast and an evening meal.

 

[mullion]

Not many flights to LPL from US

 

[Karl C]

Without the likes of Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield etc...your local airport wouldn't be the size it is.....

 

[Coathanger16]

don't most of the transatlantic flights from Heathrow rely on first class tickets at high prices to keep them in profit?

More business than first, although that's true with most long haul routes.

Airlines that fly TATL from Heathrow:

BA
Virgin
American
United
Delta
JetBlue
Air Canada
Air Transat
WestJet

Airlines that have First from Heathrow on TATL routes:

BA
American

Even then, BA/AA don't have First on all routes. In recent years BA have reduced the size of their First cabins by 40% and AA will begin retrofitting their 777-300s (only long haul aircraft they have with First) in 2024 which will remove First altogether.

I still honestly don't believe there is sufficient demand to make US routes successful from more airports otherwise airlines like Zoom and FlyGlobespan would still be flying.

Both were low cost/low fare airlines, and low cost long haul is notoriously difficult to make work. The number of passengers willing to fly long haul without the "frills" is much less than those willing to on short haul routes, and the airline can't rely on premium fare paying passengers to subsidise those in economy.

As has been said before many times, IMHO the A321LR/XLR is key for the likes of BHX-NYC. If once the big US carriers start receiving sufficient numbers of these aircraft they still don't serve BHX, then that will likely be it for good.

 

[CL44]

I have kept out of this discussion for a while to see the reactions and comments being made. Whilst I have used the flights from BHX to the USA (when they were operating) this was more a case of convenience for me than anything else. My trips across were for personal reasons not business so price did come into the equation and I was more than happy with Economy seating etc.

As a preference for priorities from BHX I would much prefer to see the Airport attracting other areas (which might be seen as a niche product) instead of relying on the USA. The point has been made countless times that we are in the middle of two catchment areas (both LHR & MAN) both of which offer services to and from the USA (both current and historic). I just do not see the point of BHX trying to encourage Airlines to a market that is saturated with services already just over a hundred miles away (certainly from LHR).

We do have a fantastic spread of Airlines (for a Regional Airport) and should be doing all possible to keep and increase what they can offer instead of what I consider to be "pie in the sky" ideas that one certain Aircraft type will attract so many different Airlines because it works in a financial sense. I have said this before and will say it again.... If an Airline wanted to serve BHX they will find a way to make it work for them both service wise and financially. And then if we do not support such a service then we loose it!

Yes it would be great to see a mainline Carrier like DL / UA / AA coming into BHX on a regular basis but, (and this is where I click my fingers), if the traffic levels are not there they will not place a service just for the prestige of saying "Look we now also fly from BHX as well as LHR/MAN/LGW (delete as applicable)" They are more likely to try and squeeze another service into LHR (by juggling slots) or accepting LGW / MAN especially if they already have agreements in place for both Passenger / Cargo operations at said Airport.

Most people on this forum know my position regarding BHX. The more Airlines coming into BHX the easier my job becomes (Freight Forwarder based at BHX) but an Airline will only ever start a service if the money is there. No profit = No service!

I appreciate this may not be the most popular post made on this forum but this is the truth (as I see it).

Lets concentrate on building what we have and encouraging services which have a chance of developing into something we can be proud of instead of chasing Airlines that have already done their homework and dismissed BHX as an option.

 

[mullion]

The passenger are there but I think without a resident UK airline it is going to be very difficult also airlines need to be part of an alliance i:e BA/EUK One World and Virgin Star Alliance so that affects from both south and north of BHX. IAG have today said that the MAN flights are doing very well and have upgraded to A333 putting more pressure on

 

[thunderchild]

IAG are hardly going to come out and say the flights are performing badly are they?

Personally I don’t see BHX getting a link back to the US anytime soon, the market has changed considerably and airlines have adapted accordingly. Yes the loss of direct flights is disappointing but when you look at what other airports have lost then BHX never stood a chance of retaining them.

 

[mullion]

Actually IAG were a bit worried last year on all their routes ex MAN and it was a bit touch and go until autumn. The problem is most of the business other than LHR/EDI is UK and European going west not the other way the reason lack of American operators. One problem is Orlando as Disney etc are very expensive now.

 

[laviation]

Think this is the correct place to post this -

I have taken a look into some quite detailed BHX-US data and suffice to say, unfortunately, the numbers do not nearly add up for any further US routes anymore.

The one exception could be JFK which may work in peak summer season with a narrowbody and propped up by decent connections on the US side of things.

However, JFK seems to have fallen further in the past year.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Think this is the correct place to post this -

I have taken a look into some quite detailed BHX-US data and suffice to say, unfortunately, the numbers do not nearly add up for any further US routes anymore.

The one exception could be JFK which may work in peak summer season with a narrowbody and propped up by decent connections on the US side of things.

However, JFK seems to have fallen further in the past year.

BHX could easily support 1 daily US flight when LHR has around 150 per day !

 

[laviation]

BHX could easily support 1 daily US flight when LHR has around 150 per day !

BHX-JFK is slightly below 20 PDEW, while LHR is in the two thousands. I do appreciate there is some leakage however, and I did take that into account with my statement re JFK.

 

[A330]

Think this is the correct place to post this -

I have taken a look into some quite detailed BHX-US data and suffice to say, unfortunately, the numbers do not nearly add up for any further US routes anymore.

I think one needs to remember BHX's proximity to Heathrow and therefore many will travel by road to Heathrow. I have found the M40 to be one of the less problematic motorways and as such Heathrow is less than 2 hours away for most from the region.

Does the data capture the number of surface journeys made from the Midlands?

 

[laviation]

I think one needs to remember BHX's proximity to Heathrow and therefore many will travel by road to Heathrow. I have found the M40 to be one of the less problematic motorways and as such Heathrow is less than 2 hours away for most from the region.

Does the data capture the number of surface journeys made from the Midlands?

Obviously, as stated by myself, there is leakage.

The data only displays BHX-USA figures, however we have to also see this from the airlines' point of view.

Sure, as I say, BHX may be able to support JFK, but will the airlines be enticed? The point of proximity works two ways - it does definitely dilute the BHX-USA traffic as you say, but it also gives airlines the lazy excuse of 'just drive an hour down the motorway'.

HS2 imho will only exacerbate these problems - makes London quicker to get to and I feel airlines will then go and say, 'get on the train'.

BHX will need to gather some healthy subsidies to woo someone over - the best candidates will be United now imho.

They have everything I stated for a route to work - v. big hub at EWR, narrowbodies (A321XLR) coming as well as no UK partners. They will also have similar but likely more comprehensive & detailed data.

JetBlue are my previous "likely" candidate however their intentions re Regional UK remain to be seen.

 

[rollo]

The big players on the LHR-NYC route BA, American and United will have details telling them how many Midlands originating passengers they are carrying giving them good data as whether a BHX service is potentially viable.

Then again they may be happy with share of midland traffic they are getting through Heathrow and avoiding the added costs and complications of setting up at BHX.

As lavition points out good incentives from BHX would likely be required and United seems a logical choice once the A321XL is available after all Continental/United ran the EWR route for something like 20 years mostly with the 757.

 

[Matty_85]

BHX-JFK is slightly below 20 PDEW, while LHR is in the two thousands. I do appreciate there is some leakage however, and I did take that into account with my statement re JFK.

Sorry but this doesn’t make sense to me… Are you saying that only 20 passengers per day, each way, want to fly to/from the BHX catchment area to JFK?