The effects on the Leeds Bradford catchment from other airports

[Aviador]

With the forum likely see more posts about the reopening of DSA, it might be a good idea to start a general thread discussing how other airports impact LBA, particularly Manchester, and to a lesser extent Liverpool and soon Doncaster Airport.

To kick things off, here's a quote by @BCFC : "Let’s hope Jet2, Ryanair, or EasyJet don’t establish a presence at DSA when or if it reopens."

In my opinion, the timing for reopening DSA couldn’t be worse, given the rising global geopolitical tensions and the fact that airlines are currently scaling back on expansion.

 

[BCFC]

I’m pretty sure it won't happen but then again I was pretty sure DSA wouldn't reopen.

 

[Len Fish]

Seems to me it’s yet another example of civic pride coming before hard headed business sense which many Councils seem to lack.

 

[HX3]

How these airports impact LBA is through price, frequency of flights and for some ease of use.

Using myself, I can easily travel to MAN and LPL. Frequencies from Manchester on services served from Leeds are often higher. So this impacts the number of seats available as well as who with - there is more competition at Manchester and often this leads to a cheaper price.

LPL has the benefit of easyjet as a base, as well as Ryanair and Jet2. For jet2 holidays they are in the forming stage so their prices have often been lower than Leeds to drive new customer base in Merseyside.

When I see a lower price, I factor in travel, the fact that parking with Sentinel is cheaper at Leeds and I also look at flight times and consider the carnage of the M62. Other people may just see the headline figure and book based on that.

However, again using myself, I have been looking for a break in December - Jet2holidays are 100-200 quid per person over other holidays with Tui and others from Manchester.

I think their pricing and the lack of competition enforces the role of competitor airports in the LBA market. Before anyone mentions it, I appreciate they may be happy with loads and yields, but the fact I have had a number of surveys from Jet2 over the last month asking questions on pricing, makes you wonder if they are conscious it has maybe gone a bit too far.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

How these airports impact LBA is through price, frequency of flights and for some ease of use.

Using myself, I can easily travel to MAN and LPL. Frequencies from Manchester on services served from Leeds are often higher. So this impacts the number of seats available as well as who with - there is more competition at Manchester and often this leads to a cheaper price.

LPL has the benefit of easyjet as a base, as well as Ryanair and Jet2. For jet2 holidays they are in the forming stage so their prices have often been lower than Leeds to drive new customer base in Merseyside.

When I see a lower price, I factor in travel, the fact that parking with Sentinel is cheaper at Leeds and I also look at flight times and consider the carnage of the M62. Other people may just see the headline figure and book based on that.

However, again using myself, I have been looking for a break in December - Jet2holidays are 100-200 quid per person over other holidays with Tui and others from Manchester.

I think their pricing and the lack of competition enforces the role of competitor airports in the LBA market. Before anyone mentions it, I appreciate they may be happy with loads and yields, but the fact I have had a number of surveys from Jet2 over the last month asking questions on pricing, makes you wonder if they are conscious it has maybe gone a bit too far.

If it was only £100 more pp I would still support Leeds, and have done on several occasions. I suppose it depends on value you put on convenience and nail biting in jams on M62.

 

[Bob O'JOb]

If it was only £100 more pp I would still support Leeds, and have done on several occasions. I suppose it depends on value you put on convenience and nail biting in jams on M62.

Steve Heapy feeling all warm and snuggly reading this, and laughing at you, uproariously.

 

[Aviador]

If it was only £100 more pp I would still support Leeds, and have done on several occasions. I suppose it depends on value you put on convenience and nail biting in jams on M62.

But that fact that flights are often substantially cheaper from Manchester in particular shows how much more demand there actually is from LBA.

Steve Heapy feeling all warm and snuggly reading this, and laughing at you, uproariously.

What is that supposed to mean, please add some context...

 

[HX3]

Having that luxury is great if there is one or two of you and finances are not an issue, but for most people for a couple £200 quid for the same product or £400 for a family, is a luxury many people don’t have- especially in December when that cash could go towards Spending money, or Christmas presents.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Steve Heapy feeling all warm and snuggly reading this, and laughing at you, uproariously.

Laughing? however I was thinking specifically of KLM.

 

[HX3]

LBAYORKIE You may have been thinking KLM, but you replied on the back of my Jet2holidays reference, hence Bob O’Job mentioning Steve Heapy laughing - in other words laughing that people are prepared to pay significantly more for the same product.

In fairness I’m prepared to pay slightly more to fly from LBA, just not that much more, and therein lies the issue of Aviador question on impact, when the competition reduces the price significantly, then to your average holiday punter then they will generally go on price across the Pennines.

 

[Aviador]

LBAYORKIE You may have been thinking KLM, but you replied on the back of my Jet2holidays reference, hence Bob O’Job mentioning Steve Heapy laughing - in other words laughing that people are prepared to pay significantly more for the same product.

In fairness I’m prepared to pay slightly more to fly from LBA, just not that much more, and therein lies the issue of Aviador question on impact, when the completion reduces the price significantly, then to your average holiday punter then they will generally go on price across the Pennines.

Does the airline benefit then though as they would've made more money having more options from LBA?

 

[HX3]

That’s a question to the airline I suppose, maybe someone closer to operations could comment?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I felt there was a more general point in play here, not just relevant to Jet2 .
I agree £400 for a family is a lot but its one I am prepared to pay. I may have to cut back elsewhere though. My basic philosophy is to fly from LBA if the destination is served from there directly or indirectly.

 

[pug]

Does the airline benefit then though as they would've made more money having more options from LBA?

It’ll be about managing demand and maximising revenue. When people are prepared to pay more for convenience the seats/beds allocation will be managed accordingly. Just a factor of scale, Manchester appeals to a much larger audience so the market can be flooded with seats, needs to be a bit more carefully managed in the regions.

It’s why people used to cry about DSA being too expensive, nothing to do with the owners as people like to believe it’s just a factor of TUI managing their demand and charging more for the privilege of flying from your local airport, they were doing this as Thomson for years as were other tour operators. Bit like dynamic ticket pricing for gigs and such.

The smaller the catchment area then the more likely you’ll need to pay more. In the case of low cost seat only airlines if you see too many cheap seats you should then assume that the route isn’t going to last very long. See also DSA.

 

[HX3]

@LBAYORKIE It is a general point, but I suppose the relevance of jet2 specifically to package holidays at Leeds, is that they are massively dominant. Elsewhere, there is more competition and therefore that dominance has less impact, and impact was the question that Aviador posed initially.

Having your philosophy is great if you have the finances to live by it, but the average family or couple don’t have that luxury, so again referring to the initial question posed in the thread, that is where we loose passengers, and that is how the competitor airports hit our market. Only by breaking Jet2’s local dominance, will we have a more level playing field.

 

[Len Fish]

The question is does any other airline/tour operator have the will or appetite to challenge the dominance of Jet2 at LBA given they’ve been entrenched here for years?

 

[Seasider]

When I decide to go on my trips, I always use LBA, unless I am going with a group from another airport.
Since I am "permanetely on holiday" I can be flexible with timings and usually get a good price. If it is cheaper from MAN/EMA/LPL it doesn't matter, I am happy with the deal I have got. Unless I use KLM, I rarely pay over £100 for my trips.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

When I decide to go on my trips, I always use LBA, unless I am going with a group from another airport.
Since I am "permanetely on holiday" I can be flexible with timings and usually get a good price. If it is cheaper from MAN/EMA/LPL it doesn't matter, I am happy with the deal I have got. Unless I use KLM, I rarely pay over £100 for my trips.

Someone after my own heart!