Leeds Bradford Airport’s Expansion Plans Under Public Inquiry

[LBAYORKIE]

Further to North South's update, here's some further detail on yesterday's meeting at Bramhope St Giles.

A few days before the meeting, an email was shared with an overview of what to expect and the agenda



There were 4 or 5 of the team from LBA on site for the mingling phase. This included the CEO, Joss, Head of Corporate Affairs and Charles, Head of Planning & Development + a few of their team. The display itself is a large print of the noise footprint around the airport and a few pictures of the terminal.

The presentation started at 6:30 as advertised. There are basically 3 parts to it.

1. Details about the investment and improvement programme. There's nothing really here you won't have seen already in terms of images except I think one picture of the new security area. VH explained that the new security area will be in the old arrivals hall. There will be two escalators leading up a relocated World Duty Free (I assume roughly where the old Camden Food Court / Burger King used to be). They are planning to open this in March 2026, in time for next summer's peak season. The existing duty free will then be closed and 'repurposed'

He mentioned that as this work is already underway then at the busiest of busiest times, the security queue wouldn't be able to stretch back towards hall B, so the queue might end up being outside. They are constructing something to offer some protection (I think) and in his view, this would be required infrequently in the summer and not at all in the quieter autumn, winter months. But always possible it is lashing with wind and rain on the times it is needed

A question was asked about air bridges. No additional ones to be built. But one to be replaced. In response to a follow up question, he explained that Jet2 and Ryanair don't want to use bridges. This not about cost - the airport doesn't charge for them - but because it leads to slower turnaround times. These airlines prefer front and back stairs.

I think there was a question on lounges and he said they were aware of the feedback - with something of a wry smile - and they were listening.

Runway resurfacing was mentioned. £50m is the latest estimate they have. He seemed to suggest that it would take 5 years - presumably to avoid disruption - but maybe I misheard as that seems a long time.

2. The update on carbon emissions. Basically split into what the airport site can control - e.g electric vehicles, heating and lighting etc. Message here was they'll eliminate everything apart from emissions related to food refrigeration in the next few years. But he was very honest to acknowledge that the biggest source of emissions from the aviation industry were aircraft emissions and the transport emissions from people travelling to/from airports. There was then quite a complicated graph showing how these might change over time due to older aircraft being phased out and a host of other things. There was a more simpler chart showing the UK aviation emissions hadn't grown in the last 20 years despite a rise in passengers. His message being that things like older aircraft being phased out and next gen a/c coming on stream has had an impact in the past and this trend will continue.

3. The update on noise. Nothing too much add here to North South's update. The airport clearly have a lot of data and they use the services of the CAA (or a CAA approved supplier) to draw these noise contours. They take every single flight over the course of a year and, based on the aircraft type and routing, create a sort of average exposure to noise over a year. He was clear that this isn't the noise from a single aircraft landing or departing, but something to represent what living near the airport is like over a whole year. This is the accepted way to assess the impact, he said.

They also has some interesting charts showing how many homes were exposed to different levels of noise and how that is reducing over time and that a very small number of homes are exposed to the highest level. They get very few complaints and they come from a small number, of repeat complainers. He was actually very sympathetic towards people who are sensitive to noise and that it was a very personal thing. The airport have some mobile noise monitors and they placed one in the home of one of the regular complainants. It was a semi-detatched house and the guy in the adjoining house said "I never hear them at all". He also said they have someone who is insistent that night flying started after Covid and there hadn't been anything before. This person had 'tuned it out' in the 20 years before Covid, but the drop off in flights during Covid, meant it was a real shock when it came back. The airport had to print off and share all sorts of historic data to prove what had been happening since the mid 1990s. He wasn't being derogatory or sarcastic, but just acknowledging that one person's lived experience is not the same as someone else and that people themselves can change. Long and the short of it though, the people really troubled by it seem to be in a significant minority and the airport serves a much wider community.

In terms of questions that might be of interest to members here

- I think I caught someone asking at the end about upgrading the ILS on R14. Answer seemed be that the technology is there to do it, but the worldwide regulations need to be changed and approved to allow these new technologies to be used. He seemed hopeful this was underway - obvs not something LBA is leading, just a change that will apply to all airports world-wide, and LBA could benefit.

- Target is still 7m passengers in the next 5 years. In response to a question about how big could it ever get, e.g. what's the absolute max it could ever handle, the answer was 11m. Basically think of Bristol today.

- They included a slide on the CLUED process. It didn't generate much interest at all really. He defended Leeds City Council though and said this process is entirely about legal opinion and interpretation of planning law. It isn't a planning application or an amendment where the council get to express a preference and apply their own planning policy or to balance the needs of different groups. He also said that the inspector agreed with LBA's interpretation of the planning rules but that the inspector didn't agree the airport had proven there had been a 10 year continuous breach under planning law.

- Total air passenger trips taken by people starting or ending their journey in Yorkshire and Humberside is currently 13m, of which LBA handles 4.2m. Of the remaining 9m, most go to Manchester and London. He acknowledged that some of these would be on wide body long haul flights, but a very large amount of the remainder were taken by people often travelling to destinations served by LBA, on airlines that operate out of LBA. So there's a big opportunity

- He mentioned that LBA currently makes just 50p profit per passenger compared to over £3 at Manchester and £10 at Heathrow.

Everything presented here is arranged for neatness, but in reality as NS says, it bounced around all over the place. Mostly an elderly couple who I suspect had they been handed a million pounds would have complained about the colour of the bag it came in. They complained in equal measure about the noise and the fact the airport was like a 'third world' airport and why wasn't he providing more seats, more comfort, more investment. From what I could tell, the small number of people who did complain were actually users of the airport. Even the guy making his pitch that earth was on its last legs said that flying and travelling was great. But in light of the existential threat to his children and their children, he'd just be taking a flight once every three years now.

Did he win them over? Not the eco-guy who stormed out because he couldn't; believe that the discussion had moved onto something as trivial as noise. "I can't be in the same room as these crazy people" seemed to be his parting shot. I don't know whether he was taking about people complaining about noise or the rest of us. But in terms of the other two couples, maybe. He dispelled some myths, was honest about the ambition of the airport and clear that its the airlines that fly the planes and they do so in response to people (like them) booking tickets and wanting to travel. The airport is incentivising quieter aircraft and LBA currently has the oldest (and therefore noisiest) based fleet of any UK airport, so it should be entirely possible for bigger, quieter more fuel efficient planes to replace them. It's inevitable this will happen - just as Chapter 2 aircraft were banned in the early 2000s, so Mr Hodder predicted that 737-300s and older 800s would be banned eventually. His hope is that the airport can make itself attractive to airlines and passengers and the fleet replacement happens sooner rather than later.

His closing remark was, how would people feel if it closed and to take a look at the reaction of people and politicians in Doncaster about what's happening down there. Predictably the aforementioned elderly couple were aghast at the idea it might close.

A great report. It seems like the same format as previous meetings with the added element of the recent CLEUD decision.

Do you agree with me that the CEO is very impressive?

 

[White Heather]

Further to North South's update, here's some further detail on yesterday's meeting at Bramhope St Giles.

A few days before the meeting, an email was shared with an overview of what to expect and the agenda



There were 4 or 5 of the team from LBA on site for the mingling phase. This included the CEO, Joss, Head of Corporate Affairs and Charles, Head of Planning & Development + a few of their team. The display itself is a large print of the noise footprint around the airport and a few pictures of the terminal.

The presentation started at 6:30 as advertised. There are basically 3 parts to it.

1. Details about the investment and improvement programme. There's nothing really here you won't have seen already in terms of images except I think one picture of the new security area. VH explained that the new security area will be in the old arrivals hall. There will be two escalators leading up a relocated World Duty Free (I assume roughly where the old Camden Food Court / Burger King used to be). They are planning to open this in March 2026, in time for next summer's peak season. The existing duty free will then be closed and 'repurposed'

He mentioned that as this work is already underway then at the busiest of busiest times, the security queue wouldn't be able to stretch back towards hall B, so the queue might end up being outside. They are constructing something to offer some protection (I think) and in his view, this would be required infrequently in the summer and not at all in the quieter autumn, winter months. But always possible it is lashing with wind and rain on the times it is needed

A question was asked about air bridges. No additional ones to be built. But one to be replaced. In response to a follow up question, he explained that Jet2 and Ryanair don't want to use bridges. This not about cost - the airport doesn't charge for them - but because it leads to slower turnaround times. These airlines prefer front and back stairs.

I think there was a question on lounges and he said they were aware of the feedback - with something of a wry smile - and they were listening.

Runway resurfacing was mentioned. £50m is the latest estimate they have. He seemed to suggest that it would take 5 years - presumably to avoid disruption - but maybe I misheard as that seems a long time.

2. The update on carbon emissions. Basically split into what the airport site can control - e.g electric vehicles, heating and lighting etc. Message here was they'll eliminate everything apart from emissions related to food refrigeration in the next few years. But he was very honest to acknowledge that the biggest source of emissions from the aviation industry were aircraft emissions and the transport emissions from people travelling to/from airports. There was then quite a complicated graph showing how these might change over time due to older aircraft being phased out and a host of other things. There was a more simpler chart showing the UK aviation emissions hadn't grown in the last 20 years despite a rise in passengers. His message being that things like older aircraft being phased out and next gen a/c coming on stream has had an impact in the past and this trend will continue.

3. The update on noise. Nothing too much add here to North South's update. The airport clearly have a lot of data and they use the services of the CAA (or a CAA approved supplier) to draw these noise contours. They take every single flight over the course of a year and, based on the aircraft type and routing, create a sort of average exposure to noise over a year. He was clear that this isn't the noise from a single aircraft landing or departing, but something to represent what living near the airport is like over a whole year. This is the accepted way to assess the impact, he said.

They also has some interesting charts showing how many homes were exposed to different levels of noise and how that is reducing over time and that a very small number of homes are exposed to the highest level. They get very few complaints and they come from a small number, of repeat complainers. He was actually very sympathetic towards people who are sensitive to noise and that it was a very personal thing. The airport have some mobile noise monitors and they placed one in the home of one of the regular complainants. It was a semi-detatched house and the guy in the adjoining house said "I never hear them at all". He also said they have someone who is insistent that night flying started after Covid and there hadn't been anything before. This person had 'tuned it out' in the 20 years before Covid, but the drop off in flights during Covid, meant it was a real shock when it came back. The airport had to print off and share all sorts of historic data to prove what had been happening since the mid 1990s. He wasn't being derogatory or sarcastic, but just acknowledging that one person's lived experience is not the same as someone else and that people themselves can change. Long and the short of it though, the people really troubled by it seem to be in a significant minority and the airport serves a much wider community.

In terms of questions that might be of interest to members here

- I think I caught someone asking at the end about upgrading the ILS on R14. Answer seemed be that the technology is there to do it, but the worldwide regulations need to be changed and approved to allow these new technologies to be used. He seemed hopeful this was underway - obvs not something LBA is leading, just a change that will apply to all airports world-wide, and LBA could benefit.

- Target is still 7m passengers in the next 5 years. In response to a question about how big could it ever get, e.g. what's the absolute max it could ever handle, the answer was 11m. Basically think of Bristol today.

- They included a slide on the CLUED process. It didn't generate much interest at all really. He defended Leeds City Council though and said this process is entirely about legal opinion and interpretation of planning law. It isn't a planning application or an amendment where the council get to express a preference and apply their own planning policy or to balance the needs of different groups. He also said that the inspector agreed with LBA's interpretation of the planning rules but that the inspector didn't agree the airport had proven there had been a 10 year continuous breach under planning law.

- Total air passenger trips taken by people starting or ending their journey in Yorkshire and Humberside is currently 13m, of which LBA handles 4.2m. Of the remaining 9m, most go to Manchester and London. He acknowledged that some of these would be on wide body long haul flights, but a very large amount of the remainder were taken by people often travelling to destinations served by LBA, on airlines that operate out of LBA. So there's a big opportunity

- He mentioned that LBA currently makes just 50p profit per passenger compared to over £3 at Manchester and £10 at Heathrow.

Everything presented here is arranged for neatness, but in reality as NS says, it bounced around all over the place. Mostly an elderly couple who I suspect had they been handed a million pounds would have complained about the colour of the bag it came in. They complained in equal measure about the noise and the fact the airport was like a 'third world' airport and why wasn't he providing more seats, more comfort, more investment. From what I could tell, the small number of people who did complain were actually users of the airport. Even the guy making his pitch that earth was on its last legs said that flying and travelling was great. But in light of the existential threat to his children and their children, he'd just be taking a flight once every three years now.

Did he win them over? Not the eco-guy who stormed out because he couldn't; believe that the discussion had moved onto something as trivial as noise. "I can't be in the same room as these crazy people" seemed to be his parting shot. I don't know whether he was taking about people complaining about noise or the rest of us. But in terms of the other two couples, maybe. He dispelled some myths, was honest about the ambition of the airport and clear that its the airlines that fly the planes and they do so in response to people (like them) booking tickets and wanting to travel. The airport is incentivising quieter aircraft and LBA currently has the oldest (and therefore noisiest) based fleet of any UK airport, so it should be entirely possible for bigger, quieter more fuel efficient planes to replace them. It's inevitable this will happen - just as Chapter 2 aircraft were banned in the early 2000s, so Mr Hodder predicted that 737-300s and older 800s would be banned eventually. His hope is that the airport can make itself attractive to airlines and passengers and the fleet replacement happens sooner rather than later.

His closing remark was, how would people feel if it closed and to take a look at the reaction of people and politicians in Doncaster about what's happening down there. Predictably the aforementioned elderly couple were aghast at the idea it might close.

Thanks Statto. That's a really good report. Are you sure you don't fancy taking over from me on the ACC?

Hopefully, much of what you've reported will sound familiar because it's all material that has been discussed at the ACC and most of it, reported by myself on the ACC thread. But its great to hear it reiterated and that your report confirms my understanding of how things are. Its because it's the same material that I've previously heard and reported on that I dont attend these events. I, am not the airports target audience so its pointless me using a ticket that should be used by someone else. On top of that, I have no intention of getting myself arrested, which is a distinct possibility if
I'm stuck in the same room as G****A or any others who are there not to listen, but to disrupt.

Besides, Vince Hodder is bigger than me and can clearly sort these people out himself, and in his own way.

 

[SierraHotel]

The construction of the 2 aforementioned escalators should definitely help address the claustrophobic feel to the current building. Very interesting iro the 14 ILS situation. Cat 3 at that end would be extremely beneficial. Excellent report Statto. Much appreciated

 

[White Heather]

A great report. It seems like the same format as previous meetings with the added element of the recent CLEUD decision.

Do you agree with me that the CEO is very impressive?

Vince is without doubt the most impressive CEO I've seen in terms of getting things done and attitude to airport opposition. Others such as Gordon Dennison and Hywell Rees were really good but Vince is the real deal in my book. In Vince we trust!

 

[Statto]

Do you agree with me that the CEO is very impressive?

Yes, absolutely. And with WH’s assessment.

Thanks Statto. That's a really good report. Are you sure you don't fancy taking over from me on the ACC?

When I retire in a few years, definitely

Hopefully, much of what you've reported will sound familiar because it's all material that has been discussed at the ACC and most of it, reported by myself on the ACC thread.

It did. I forgot to mention that the chair of the parish council spoke up - he is a member of the ACC and talked about the painful airspace change process and how those changes could help with noise. I know you have provided lots of detail on that particular joy too.

 

[White Heather]

I attended yesterday community meeting at Bramhope which thought was very good.

There was a presence from ( they who shall not be named ) handing out leaflets but I refused to take one

I did manage to speak with Vincent Hodder briefly before the meeting started and he discussed the purpose was they were trying to reach out to people about constant mis leading information and talk about the facts and plans the current situation & the future

Then we I asked what current situation regards the CLEUD he stated that it is business as normal and they are in regular discussions with LCC and they are some further questions & anomalies regard the recent public enquiry and it will most likely to go a judicial review, he did discuss some further detail just can’t remember exact words! But he seemed confident

I asked about DSA he did not seen too worried as he stated previously it will most likely fail! Due to lack of demand and does not know if they even have any airlines lined up yet !!

Easy jet nothing about a base yet but he feels they will need to see how the grow over this & next year or so .

The 2 hour beefing started with a screen show PowerPoint display on the new terminal and development with are due to be completed by end of 2026 but at this point a couple of anti-airport people started to interrupt the briefing about light level in the terminal and getting wet when boarding aircraft.

The next part discussed was carbon emissions and net 0 and the airport progression toward reaching which is all in the public domain if interested, but again someone tried to stop the discussion someone claiming to be from Leeds university but I not sure who they are associated with but they was 5 of them and they did start becoming disruptive he asked Vincent to stop so he could speak but the Majority asked for Vincent to continue then the 5 of them got up wand walked out while Vincent was speaking.

Next part noise - he presented on a the power point display chart showing the areas they are effected showing a graph for 2016 & then 2025 shown the areas effected in 2025 are less than 2016 they have various methods of recording this which are approved by CAA and then showed further graph to Demonstrate the lesser noise effect of the modern aircraft NEO / MAX then he discussed about ageing aircraft that use LBA like the 737 – 300 are nosier type are eventually will be replaced but again constant disruption from various individuals one even asked if Steve Heapy would come along to one of these meeting to explain why LBA has a Lot of the older nosier types - Vincent said I asked him when I next seen him !!!!

There was constant disruptions thought this but I guess over 50% of the people asking questions were anti-airport but there we a few supports too

Then the was a questions & answers which only interesting note was Someone asked about the Heathrow link, he said BA will not be returning and as previous stated they are in talks with Loganair using a code share x3 daily but nothing further as of now

This is all from memory I tried to pick out the bits I can remember as the meeting was over 2 hours but I glad I attended would think it worth a visit to one if you have time

Excellent report NorthSouth. Many thanks for this.

Yes, absolutely. And with WH’s assessment.


When I retire in a few years, definitely


It did. I forgot to mention that the chair of the parish council spoke up - he is a member of the ACC and talked about the painful airspace change process and how those changes could help with noise. I know you have provided lots of detail on that particular joy too.

Yes, he is on the ACC and has been for a good few years now. Nice chap. Very supportive too.

 

[northsouth]

Yes he was impressive I gave me more confidence going forward

 

[dmrodgers]

@LBAYORKIE , if you will give me £60 to drive over from the East Coast, then I will attend and support the airport. Otherwise, I will carry on supporting the airport by using it.

Same here, a hour and 20 minutes drive to LBA and maybe slightly more to the venues being used. Like Seasider I support the airport at every opportunity by flying regularly from LBA, often needing a change at AMS when I could travel direct from BMX or MAN for some of the destinations.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I attended the Otley community meeting last night. It was the usual format, as outlined by Statto who went to Mondays meeting at Bramhope.

Of all the events I have been to this was the most disrupted. There were roughly 35 people there. There were some very vocal people there especially from GALBA and the CEO had to work really hard without any tangible support from anyone in the audience.

The next events are at Cookridge and Menston in the Autumn. Dates to be announced.

 

[White Heather]

I attended the Otley community meeting last night. It was the usual format, as outlined by Statto who went to Mondays meeting at Bramhope.

Of all the events I have been to this was the most disrupted. There were roughly 35 people there. There were some very vocal people there especially from GALBA and the CEO had to work really hard without any tangible support from anyone in the audience.

The next events are at Cookridge and Menston in the Autumn. Dates to be announced.

Frankly, Im beginning to think these events are nothing more than an opportunity for G****A and their chums to hijack the entire event. Most people don't care that much what goes on at LBA and wont go. I bet there are the same people turning up at all these events, with no agenda other than disrupting it. I imagine there'll be very few going along who are open to persuasion having heard the true facts rather than the lies pedalled by G****A, which was the intention of holding them.

Full marks though to the CEO and his team for braving the mob repeatedly, with no tangible support from the audience, even with you there!??

 

[LBA4EVER]

Frankly, Im beginning to think these events are nothing more than an opportunity for G****A and their chums to hijack the entire event. Most people don't care that much what goes on at LBA and wont go. I bet there are the same people turning up at all these events, with no agenda other than disrupting it. I imagine there'll be very few going along who are open to persuasion having heard the true facts rather than the lies pedalled by G****A, which was the intention of holding them.

Full marks though to the CEO and his team for braving the mob repeatedly, with no tangible support from the audience, even with you there!??

Me and you WH will sort these idiots out round the back of the building whilst the CEO gives his pro speech on a serious note once the menston event is announced id be interested with certainty a few questions esp reg runway, ils, tdzs, longhaul etc as well as giving the LBA team some backup from those that shall not be named!

 

[Aviador]

The next events are at Cookridge and Menston in the Autumn. Dates to be announced.

Bear in mind it is Menston where women can't even have a conversation in their own living room when aircraft are taking off.

 

[Snackbar]

Frankly, Im beginning to think these events are nothing more than an opportunity for G****A and their chums to hijack the entire event. Most people don't care that much what goes on at LBA and wont go. I bet there are the same people turning up at all these events, with no agenda other than disrupting it. I imagine there'll be very few going along who are open to persuasion having heard the true facts rather than the lies pedalled by G****A, which was the intention of holding them.

Full marks though to the CEO and his team for braving the mob repeatedly, with no tangible support from the audience, even with you there!??

Exactly that - most people are ambivalent to the aircraft and these types of events be it a planning enquiry and information giving just get hijacked by those with an axe to grind…..G…..A are obviously still unhappy that they aren’t invited to the ACC (quite rightly given they have nothing constructive to say) and will just use these events to peddle their misguided agenda….

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Exactly that - most people are ambivalent to the aircraft and these types of events be it a planning enquiry and information giving just get hijacked by those with an axe to grind…..G…..A are obviously still unhappy that they aren’t invited to the ACC (quite rightly given they have nothing constructive to say) and will just use these events to peddle their misguided agenda….

Its only dominated by them because pro-airport people dont turn up. The CEO is simply setting out facts, he knows hes unlikely to win anyone over.

 

[Snackbar]

Its only dominated by them because pro-airport people dont turn up. The CEO is simply setting out facts, he knows hes unlikely to win anyone over.

I’m also not sure how well these events are being promoted…..I know the airport have asked local MPs and Councillors to push them but I’ve seen very little if anything in that regard….Obviously the airport detractors will be fully aware!
The fact that only 35 people bothered to turn up at the Otley event goes to prove that’s it’s a small vocal minority who are against the airport - I’m sure if it was such a problem far more would be there moaning!

 

[Statto]

I’m also not sure how well these events are being promoted…..I know the airport have asked local MPs and Councillors to push them but I’ve seen very little if anything in that regard….Obviously the airport detractors will be fully aware!
The fact that only 35 people bothered to turn up at the Otley event goes to prove that’s it’s a small vocal minority who are against the airport - I’m sure if it was such a problem far more would be there moaning!

My thoughts exactly. There will be over half a million passengers going through the airport this month. Some people will be flying out and back in the same month, others will arrive, having departed in july, and others will depart, arriving back in september. But roughly, lets say 300,000 unique travellers using the airport. Assume 25% with an LS postcode, that’s 75,000 people from the city using LBA in just a single month. And then probably at least the same again travelling to/from MAN and other airports.

 

[GolfFox]

Wasnt aware I had ever upset you @GolfFox
LCC need to be made fully aware the damage this could do to the local economy and Yorkshire's gateway itself if common sense doesn't prevail.
My concern with that statement though is that LCC and common sense are not something freely used in the same sentence

Let myself in for that one didn't I?