Thomas Cook

[Finger66]

I agree it could be good use of quieter times of day, but that still doesn't detract from TC should not have promised on something they couldn't deliver. Let's hope 2018 is the year of glad tidings for LBA. There is certainly lots of bad news at the moment and you all know how I hate being negative where LBA is concerned.

 

[White Heather]

I had conversations last night on Facebook with two guys who work for Thomas Cook and it one of them who posted that they had pulled the LBA base and were only flying to Antalya, Dalaman and Palma on W patterns. He himself said it was such a shame as LBA showed a lot of promise as a TCX base. I put it to him that this was a straightforward consolidation - something that has happened in the past many times and with Thomas Cook included. He agreed. If that is the case it may well be nothing to do with bookings out of LBA - the airlines have in the past consolidated back to MAN and withdrawn LBA flights when bookings out of MAN are not meeting expectations. Thomson are another airline that have done this many times in the past.
On the other hand, I was also told last night, before this news came to light, that the LBA based aircraft would be leased as there were no TCX aircraft available. It may well be the case that these leased aircraft are not now available and we are left with just the three routes on W legs. It wouldn't be so bad if they were more than weekly or on larger aircraft. That would soften the blow somewhat. I can well imagine now that Davey Laws and Chris Sanders will be knocking on the doors of Jet2 and Tui asking if they are able to offer any more for summer 2018 although its getting rather late to do so now. We can but hope.

As for Thomas Cook - their absence from LBA opened the door for huge Jet2 Holidays expansion, just as Thomson's absence had enabled Thomas Cook to become the major tour operator at LBA prior to their financial issues and resultant withdrawal. This latest disappointment will make it so much harder for them to re-establish themselves here. My hope is that they saw enough bookings to encourage them to have another go in summer 2019 (or winter 2018/19) and this time, not make a mess of it.

 

[a300boy]

They wont get my bum on a seat on one of their aircraft no matter if they come back in 2019 or not.
I await an official response from our new straight talking management but not holding my breath.

 

[Jerry]

Didn't Thomas Cook recently purchase several extra aircraft? I'm really surprised that they seem to not be going ahead with the launch of the new bases.

 

[Britannia94]

Frustrating how only in October this was heavily PR about the new base, come forward two months and they can’t seem to give us a straight definite answer about the base.

If they don’t go ahead with the base and routes on offer it will seriously make people think twice about booking with them.

 

[Finger66]

Renamed Thomas C**k up or Thomas F**k up

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

After sort of ... calming down a little from a lot of disappointment i've come to the conclusion this could only be a good thing for the airport rather then the bad thing that we think it is.

A) We'll probably see Jet2 respond to the capacity left behind in some fashion or another. They'll alter the capacity around to ensure that the markets, left without a TCX presence, get the needed capacity (e.g. PMI, TFS, LCA, DLM upgrades to 75). More money into a British Company with a HQ next to the Runway and down the road in the city centre.
B) We are maintaining TCX presence to their cash cow markets (DLM, AYT and PMI). Okay it is a aircraft/airline based in those destinations but we still maintain their market giving the Customers an option to fly to those destinations should they want to from LBA.
C) Could we see TUI respond with a 757-200 upgrade? Or an extra based unit?
D) We are seeing the riskiest destination (NBE) dropped from LBIA's departure boards which in my opinion is fantastic. That was one of the riskiest to operate and may not have seen a full plane leaving week in week out. Let the market re-stablise from places such as MAN, LGW, BHX before we get it on our boards.

Believe most of the reason is due to the leases they normally get in for additional summer capacity has been taken/not on their favourable terms.

 

[michael]

Not sure how to quote between different airport pages so pasted from the Manchester page 'User 001' has posted;
Flybe will begin a weekly flight to Olbia on behalf of Thomas Cook starting May

BE8932 MAN 1715 OLB 2100
BE8933 OLB 2145 MAN 2240
E175 Sunday’s from May 27th.

so if FlyBe are operating on behalf of TCX maybe they really are seriously short of aircraft for summer 18?

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Or maybe they are testing the market with a E175 and 88 seats rather then a A321 with 212? Getting into the Italian Market before Jet2 does or TUI grows?

To me it seems TCX had a knee jerk reaction to the Monarch demise rather then a calculated risk.

 

[lbaspotter]

Thomas Cook have just increased the Leeds/Bradford to Antalya & Dalaman routes both to a 2x weekly non based flights operated by the in-house airline. So that's them now operating up to 5x weekly flights as follows next summer 2018

Mondays
AEA--- = PMI 13:00 – LBA 14:40 / AEA--- = LBA 15:30 – PMI 19:00 - Boeing 737-800
Wednesdays
TCX161 = DLM 14:40 - LBA 17:10 / TCX160 = LBA 18:25 - DLM 00:40 - Airbus A321
Thursdays
TCX163 = AYT 13:40 - LBA 16:20 / TCX162 = LBA 17:35 - AYT 23:50 - Airbus A321
Saturdays
TCX165 = DLM 14:50 – LBA 17:20 / TCX164 = LBA 18:35 – DLM 00:50 - Airbus A321
Sundays
TCX169 = AYT 14:30 – LBA 17:10 / TCX168 = LBA 18:25 – AYT 00:40 - Airbus A321

 

[imagineif]

TCX don't have the capacity to operate the program they announced - in reality. They are spreading themselves quite thin as it is. They needed an A320 for the LBA base and couldn't come up with one or an in house A321 to take on the full program. The solution is to scale back and operate W-routes to utilize what they have. They are once again re-modelling the business - disposing of Thomas Cook Belgium; but it's A320 is destined for the new Thomas Cook PMI base. It is sending all the 753's over to Condor for next summer - swapping for more A321's and is even doing some A330 flying for Condor on its new FRA-KUL service. Basically... already a whole lot going on in the coming months.

I think the LBA S18' plans came very quickly without enough thought on lead times, re-establishing a base and getting the equipment in place.

Hopefully the W-legs do ok but they provide many challenges in a the busy summer months. The program changes will also have caused revisions to flight times and going from based aircraft to W-routes seldom results in a positive change for the customer. Not the best start really from TCX.

Me thinks everybody will be turning to Jet2 once again to bridge the gap as the only operator that has consistently invested and shown faith in LBA and proved it can work.

 

[Jerry]

In a way LBA is lucky it has Jet2 and the excellent relationship the airport and Jet2 seem to have.

 

[Finger66]

I keep saying LBA wouldn't be where it is today without Jet2. For all the good work they have done and are still doing we seem to have other operators that consistently want to kick LBA in the teeth at every opportunity. The three that seem to be the biggest culprits are TCX, EZE and BAW. To a lesser extent TUI don't always help either. Regardless of what has caused the TCX U-turn it is no way to run a business making promises you can't deliver on. The only good thing coming out of this is we do at least have some sort of dedicated TCX programme, not a taking of seats on other operators flights.

 

[a300boy]

But having to rely on two airlines to provide so much of your business is not good practice.
We need some competition to shake it up a bit and should the unthinkable happen like a bankruptcy or fall out with either Ryanair or Jet 2 it would be a major calamity.

 

[Jerry]

I had a look at TCXs programme and the amount of aircraft they'd have to use and they have 31 A321s but it looks like they'll need 36 aircraft for summer 18 and that would've been 38 with LTN and LBA. So it looks like they just can't get the aircraft.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

So basically @Jerry poor commercial planning?

I really don't understand what is happening at TCX at the moment. Seems a lot of mix up with fleets and companies for differing countries.

 

[Jerry]

So basically @Jerry poor commercial planning?

I really don't understand what is happening at TCX at the moment. Seems a lot of mix up with fleets and companies for differing countries.

It does kind of sound like it. I believe they are leasing 4 aircraft off Avion Express. 2 A321s and 2 A320s that is according to Wikipedia and as well it says TCX are getting an A330 300 off TCX Scandanavia so whether that will do short haul from say Gatwick i don't know.
With the LTN and LBA bases they launched they could have just taken 1 aircraft each from MAN and LGW and then for the flights they were going to operate from MAN and LGW with those aircraft just use Easyjet flights i'd have thought but maybe that needs clearing with the holiday side? or it was just easier to cancel the LBA and LTN bases? If they plan to launch them again in 2019 then they will need to get them aircraft from somewhere. Personally i don't understand why they just don't get 4 or 5 A320s of there own to cover their smaller bases.

 

[White Heather]

I recall that in the past tour operators have announced based aircraft at LBA and then cancelled the base again, operating just a few flights on W legs. The following year the base actually happened. In the interests of competition I sincerely hope that happens again this time. Perhaps, with the loss of Monarch and opportunities at LBA because of it, they jumped at the chance to get their foot in the LBA door before they were certain of their 2018 operations and aircraft availability. In a nutshell, they messed up. But, looking on the bright side - if they get a good response on the remaining 3 routes and are satisfied that the demand is there, they might try again in summer 2019 - it does given them 18 months to sort themselves out and get the aircraft. Despite my disappointment, I am once again looking forward to now seeing a regular TCX A321 on the ground at LBA next summer - assuming they don't drop the axe on those too. The doubling up of the Turkey flights mentioned by LBASpotter bodes well that it won't happen.

 

[Finger66]

Still doesn't take away the false promises and major mis-calculation on the part of TCX. That said to double frequency suggests strong support on those routes and may just (I say just) make them realise a base is needed in 2019. The problem that will remain is the loss of client support/belief or whatever else you would like to call it. The above all said we have at least filled a fair bit of the lost MON capacity and I would still rather have that than nothing at all. It's a step backwards but it's probably not all bad if we all get off our high-horses!

 

[Silvercity]

From my experiences over at Liverpool, the IT operators have never shown great support over the years there, very lacklustre. It's been the Easyjets and Ryanairs, that have offered passenger choice, not the tour operator's.