Flybe/Virgin Connect


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Jerry

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I've only seen this on a post on Facebook Groups but apparently the UK government is considering amending domestic APD for all airlines to avoid state rules as regional connectivity is now a major policy.
 

TheLocalYokel

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But if it goes bust now the government loses over 100 million in APD for certain. This way they might get it back in the future.
Not necessarily. If the company has assets at the moment HMRC is usually at the front of the queue at the administrator's door. In a year or two the situation might be worse.

Had the company still been publicly quoted its share price movement might have given a public clue much sooner about its apparent parlous situation. Its current ownership is through a private limited company.
 

Rob c DSA

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It really looks like the writing is on the wall for Flybe and a case of when not if, if not tomorrow 12 months down the line maybe 2 years like Monarch they are a broken company fighting what seems the inevitable some of it caused by bad management and some through no fault of their own. The whole mess leaves the UK aviation seen in tatters again.
 

aviatorconcorde

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But if it goes bust now the government loses over 100 million in APD for certain. This way they might get it back in the future.
I think if administrators are appointed and a sell off begins, the government would get their money back that way.

i don’t really know how many assets flybe actually has these days however. Do they own their hanger down in exeter?
 

rollo

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Do they own their hanger down in exeter?
They sold the hanger in November 2018 for £5 million and leased it back at £500,000 plus per anum. They also sold off Gatwick slots around the same time all part of trying to stay afloat before the eventual distress sale to Virgin.

I would imagine they have very little in terms of assets left.
 

superking

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Comments on dried plum,that if government cut apd for flybe it would have to be paid at some point. Also if apd was cut then the same would have to be done for Europe.I would say at this point apd will not be cut.
 

Jerry

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Comments on dried plum,that if government cut apd for flybe it would have to be paid at some point. Also if apd was cut then the same would have to be done for Europe.I would say at this point apd will not be cut.
The government would have to make changes and put domestic flights as a different category.
 

Jerry

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I don’t think Domestic flights should ever have had APD on them.
Personally I think it depends on the route. London to Scotland for instance, I don't think it should be abolished on that or London to Manchester or Leeds but London to say Newquay or Newquay to the rest of the UK or Scotland to Wales could be a different case in my opinion which I know is probably biased! Lol
 

TheLocalYokel

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If, as reported, Flybe wants to defer payment of £106 million does that mean this is money they have already collected, or is it a forecast of future APD between now and the reported 2023 extended deadline?

If it's money they have already collected what's happened to it? Have they spent it running the company?

I don't kow how often airlines have to hand over APD money to the government: daily, weekly, monthly, annually? If it's £106 million of money already collected it sounds like annually.

If that is the case will Flybe be allowed to defer payment of ongoing APD I wonder? If so that would add considerably to the £106 million.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Further to my previous post #1,1611, I've read further and it appears that the £106 million is a year's APD owed. If the goverment allows deferment of this and the airline is able to continue operating I wonder what will happen to the APD it collects in the next 12 months. Will that be deferred as well?
 

Jerry

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As long as Flybe are operating those routes i don't see any of those airlines being interested unless Flybe themselves actively saught them out to hand over the routes to them and i don't see that happening or the airport even trying to make it happen. I personally would not also be surprised if the airport management still hold out hope that one day they can get the Flybe base back.
 

aviatorconcorde

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Correct decision by the government here. It would of been a disaster for regional airport connectivity. But as mentioned above, the airport should look too diversify out to other operators.
 

Tinkerman

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As some have called it, this seems to be a mere “Stay of Execution” for BE.

The airline has burned through most of the cash the new owners have stumped up and as a result now have the UK Government over a barrel. I don’t believe they can abolish domestic APD as a standard initiative without that effecting short-haul APD - Legally.

Interesting times ahead as this may have severe ramifications for all regional airports - CWL being one of many. BE quite evidently need this restructure ASAP to prevent a similar situation arising in the near future, and what that holds is anyone’s guess - But at present I wouldn’t rule out some pretty hefty changes to their current flying schedule/fleet/HQ and general operations ...

Fortunately i left the aviation scene a while back, but the number of established airlines that are facing/have faced the axe is mind-numbing. If somebody told you 5 years ago that you’d be without all of MON, TCX and ever so nearly BE you would have thought someone was having you on. For all those left in the aviation circles these days, i wish you all the best for whatever comes your way !

Just my two-pennies on the whole situation, and industry. However, there’s a common denominator for all those three airlines i’ve listed above ... And that’s the key reason why they struggled/are struggling and have ultimately failed.
 
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Nuffsaid

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The airport will be putting its future at great risk if it does not diversify the airline offering now. New airlines may push BE off the routes currently held rather than BE just handing them over. At least the routes will be secured as will the airports future.
 

Jarvo

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We saw it last year after the last Flybe issue where booking numbers even for the well established routes was going down. People don't like uncertainty and the news coverage of these struggles is what people will remember of Flybe going forward.

I for one would look elsewhere for a flight if possible after the last few days purely because the airline could very easily have gone under this weekend with administrators notified and yet not even staff had the slightest clue. I understand they don't want to cause people to panic cancel or look elsewhere as it'll just exacerbate the situation, but come on.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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Personally I think it depends on the route. London to Scotland for instance, I don't think it should be abolished on that or London to Manchester or Leeds but London to say Newquay or Newquay to the rest of the UK or Scotland to Wales could be a different case in my opinion which I know is probably biased! Lol
My opinion is anywhere within 2 hours by rail. Or where rail connections are very good -

So London to Newcastle/Manchester/Leeds should have APD.

Birmingham to Edinburgh/Glasgow shouldn't.
Manchester/Leeds to Aberdeen shouldn't.
South Coast to North Scotland/North England shouldn't.
Cornwall/Devon to anywhere in the UK - nope.
Channel Islands to anywhere in the UK - nope.

I could go on but i think you get my point....
 
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