Flybe

[Jerry]

CWL pax figures were far away from 2 million,about 400.000 if I read the figures correctly.

I think he's talking about Southampton not Cardiff.

 

[superking]

I. thought pso was between airports in the UK. The same thing in other Europe wide airports as well.There is a lot of rules and regs with a PSO in how the airline and airport operate any PSO routes 1 of the main thing is how easy to get from I part of country to another is and that means all sort of transport.

 

[superking]

I think he's talking about Southampton not Cardiff.

I was looking at a post you did back in November. The pax you quoted was 1.663,201

 

[Jerry]

I was looking at a post you did back in November. The pax you quoted was 1.663,201

That should be the rolling year for Cardiff I believe.

I. thought pso was between airports in the UK. The same thing in other Europe wide airports as well.There is a lot of rules and regs with a PSO in how the airline and airport operate any PSO routes 1 of the main thing is how easy to get from I part of country to another is and that means all sort of transport.

Yes those are part of EU legislation but with the UK leaving the EU those rules in the UK may well change and become more relaxed.

 

[Jarvo]

CWL pax figures were far away from 2 million,about 400.000 if I read the figures correctly.

I was referring to Southampton in that post as they are a similarly sized airport with a big reliance on Flybe too. Their 2018 total was 1.99m. My apologies for not making that clear

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I was referring to Southampton in that post as they are a similarly sized airport with a big reliance on Flybe too. Their 2018 total was 1.99m. My apologies for not making that clear

SOU has been struggling in recent years even with Flybe. In 2017 SOU handled 2.069 million passengers, down to 1.991 million in 2018 and now the current 12-month rolling figure for November is 1.805 million. That's a loss of over 260,000 passengers in just under three years in a period when many other airports have experienced good passenger growth, including CWL.

I'm not sure how hard SOU will be hit in 2020 by Flybe's reorganisation.

Incidentally, SOU has excellent rail links with, it is said, one of the shortest journeys from rail platform to air terminal in the country but, as with Prestwick, good rail connectivity does not guarantee a thriving airport.

 

[Jerry]

Ministers fly in advisers for Flybe loan talks

The government has drafted in Alvarez & Marsal to hammer out the terms of a loan to Flybe, Sky News learns.

news.sky.com

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Ministers fly in advisers for Flybe loan talks

The government has drafted in Alvarez & Marsal to hammer out the terms of a loan to Flybe, Sky News learns.

news.sky.com

This company won't come cheaply. I wonder if their costs will be factored into loan repayments if and when Flybe gets around to repaying. If not, the tax payer will be picking up the tab.

If the government bail-out goes ahead, which is what it will be because Flybe could have approached commercial lenders for the money but must feel that their set-up is too risky for commercial lenders' tastes, it might encourage other airlines, say Loganair, to be less than prudent in their expansion of domestic routes if they think the tax payer is always there as a long-stop following what would be a clear precedent.

 

[Jerry]

This company won't come cheaply. I wonder if their costs will be factored into loan repayments if and when Flybe gets around to repaying. If not, the tax payer will be picking up the tab.

Apparently the loan will be secured on assets like aircraft and I'd imagine engines and if they own it Flybe HQ in Exeter. Another asset could be Flybe Aviation services the MRO business.

As for other airlines I expect the government will throw them a bone with some sort of reduction in APD. Loganair though is an interesting mention as I'd imagine that considering that they operate most of Scotland's domestic routes the Scottish government itself would do the same as the UK government if it needed help. Though as an airline they seem to wisely run but unlike Flybe they do have a significant amount of routes which are APD free. I wonder if that gives them an advantage in that their APD bill % wise to their revenue is lower than Flybe? Though of course APD is only one reason why Flybe is where it is as a company today.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Apparently the loan will be secured on assets like aircraft and I'd imagine engines and if they own it Flybe HQ in Exeter. Another asset could be Flybe Aviation services the MRO business.

As for other airlines I expect the government will throw them a bone with some sort of reduction in APD. Loganair though is an interesting mention as I'd imagine that considering that they operate most of Scotland's domestic routes the Scottish government itself would do the same as the UK government if it needed help. Though as an airline they seem to wisely run but unlike Flybe they do have a significant amount of routes which are APD free. I wonder if that gives them an advantage in that their APD bill % wise to their revenue is lower than Flybe? Though of course APD is only one reason why Flybe is where it is as a company today.

As the article points out, Flybe was bought by the consortium in an 'unconventional' manner. Instead of purchasing Flybe's listed holding company the consortium purchased the company's assets.

The question remains that if the consortium owns assets that could be used as collateral in a loan from the government why could they not be used in the same way to obtain a loan from commercial lenders?

 

[Jerry]

The question remains that if the consortium owns assets that could be used as collateral in a loan from the government why could they not be used in the same way to obtain a loan from commercial lenders?

I've seen several people on Twitter ask why Flybe's owners aren't coming up with the cash. All 3 investors in Connect Airways and Delta airlines who own 49% of Virgin Atlantic and of course Richard Branson.
I can only assume that the lenders believe Flybe is too risky.

 

[Aviador]

So do you think we will see some kind of cull of flights from some airports after recent events?

 

[Jerry]

So do you think we will see some kind of cull of flights from some airports after recent events?

Sadly it's highly probable but the problem will be for the UK government that the routes culled could be the vary routes that the government want to save, the inter regional routes like SOU-NCL or EXT-MAN. I'd imagine that any government loan would probably have some sort of criteria and turnaround plan attached to it or needed for it to be given.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I can only assume that the lenders believe Flybe is too risky.

I think that is the reason. We can only hope that if the government does come up with the money the consortium uses it wisely.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Sadly it's highly probable but the problem will be for the UK government that the routes culled could be the vary routes that the government want to save, the inter regional routes like SOU-NCL or EXT-MAN. I'd imagine that any government loan would probably have some sort of criteria and turnaround plan attached to it or needed for it to be given.

We might not know the details of any agreement between the government and Flybe. The government is hiding behind the commercial confidentiality screen now. It's difficult to see that changing despite public money being used if an agreement is reached.

 

[TOM100]

According to PP Flybe are looking very shaky again......I really hope they survive. Selfishly I use them for CDG connections lot with the AF codeshare.......

 

[Jerry]

According to PP

Sorry who's PP?
There does seem to be a lot of confusion out there about what is going on and what will happen. I guess we can only keep our fingers crossed that something will happen to sort themselves out. From a selfish view i'll be booking a flight to Dublin with them next week hopefully and of course don't want that impacted. There is though the thousands of staff that they employ and have employment because of them at airports. Also it would be extremely hard for Cardiff and many other smaller airports to replace the lost flights and routes if anything happens.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Rumours have been circulating that the government has been in talks with other airlines should Flybe fail. Even the likes of easyJet and Ryanair have been mentioned in some reports but, although there might be some routes that could be viable for airlines like that (although if there are the obvious question is why haven't haven't they tried them before?), it's hard to think that much of the current Fybe network could be replaced by easyJet and/or Ryanair.

My opinion hasn't changed which is that I don't want to see Fybe fail but if the owners are so confident of its future why don't they put in their own money? Their current ploy has all the signs of the Flybe owners wanting the tax payer to take the risk and not them.

I'm entirely conscious that people's livelihoods are on the line but that is the responsibility of the Flybe owners. Their due diligence procedures must be questioned which makes me wonder how they could be trusted with tax payers' money. Perversely, some airports might actually be better off if easyJet /Ryanair did take on some of the former Flybe routes. CWL would have to hope they were included in that number.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Sorry who's PP?

"Dried fruit" = Pprune.

 

[Aviador]

"Dried fruit" = Pprune.

Please, don't swear!