Archive Flybe at Cardiff Airport

[mathers_wales_uk]

A couple of things I've picked up on from the article;
Vince Hodder, Flybe’s chief strategy officer, said Flybe hoped to make further inroads into serving the 7.7 million people within a two hour drive of Cardiff Airport.
I think this is the first time I've seen a figure like this mentioned, which shows the Airport and Airlines are branching out their target market.
He said: "Ultimately, it comes down to the way the airport and Flybe work together to build routes. Working together, we can try different things and experiment."
Whatever money the Airport can stump up whilst new routes are potentially loss making?
He added: "We have already started planning for a fourth aircraft. It’s always nice to introduce a new aircraft at the start of the summer season.
"That could be summer next year, or the year after. It depends how the market absorbs the capacity we are adding in this year."
That's quite an announcement to make, obviously more to if this year is successful, but still not a confirmation that a 4th aircraft will happen.
And most importantly;
The airline will consider flights to fresh destinations in Germany, Italy, Spain and the rest of the UK, Hodder told Insider.
I wouldn't be surprised if BE took over NCL and Eastern operated direct to ABZ. With T3 being a franchise of BE, I can't see the T3 pricing lasting with customers booking on BE's website. Technically it would be a fresh destination for BE if it's brought in house. I really can't see MAN working at all. There's an hourly train and with QR at CWL and LHR down the M4, I can't see what the attraction would be to fill a Q400 or E75 once or twice daily.
FRA could work if MUC is currently working for them. It would really show BE taking on BMI at BRS. HAM or STR maybe?
Spain is crying out for routes from CWL. Extra capacity on PMI, AGP and ALC, along with IBZ, MAH, VLC, MJV. There's also an open market for GIB since Monarchs demise.
Also very surprised no mention of France.
Positive news anyway! Still more to come for 2019 as far as i'm aware.

Good summing up there however what it appears many have missed is that they have said next Summer or the year after. This will mean Summer 2019 or 2020. (Not this year or the following year 2018/2019).

Cardiff Airport is a growing airport and Flybe would very much want to play a part of this growth to ensure they don't get pushed out by other operators.

Question regarding UK routes that would be suitable on the jet, I can't really think of any. I doubt the fourth aircraft will be non jet as would create a mixed fleet base which would be more expensive and less efficient.

A new UK route could come in the form of a non CWL based aircraft.

 

[CWL94]

BE's W18/19 timetable up until Jan comes out on Thursday. What do people expect to see from it, new routes? frequency changes etc?

I personally think MUC, MXP and TXL will all get reduced to 2x weekly, all have had rather poor loads this winter so might see a reduction. Being operated on a E175 though might be better so could maintain frequency there as a drop in seats offered will help.

VCE might operate through the winter, FCO maybe to go 3x weekly as has maintained decent loads this winter. Also would like to see GVA 2x weekly with Tue flights to allow people to have a 3/4 day break rather than a week only.

ORK and JER didnt set the world on fire at 3x weekly so might both drop back to 2 also.

If that is the case, there is scope for new route/s, what routes they might be I dont know. I also expect CDG to remain double daily on Sunday, Monday and Friday.

Thoughts?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I don't think FRA has ever operated from CWL. The BA franchisee operated for many years at BRS until Flybe bought BACon and closed the BRS base with most of the routes in 2007. LH via Eurowings with Bae 146-300 aircraft operated BRS-FRA for year in 08/09 at 3 x daily (21 x weekly) in the summer. It reduced a bit in the winter but 100,000 were carried in that year until LH peremptorily axed the route citing the recession. bmir restarted it a few years ago and then gained the LH codeshare (as with MUC) which may have saved both, although with bmir's often eye-watering point to point fares who knows?

Apart from FRA and MUC bmir operates to HAM from BRS which benefits from both the Airbus and Imperial Tobacco connections at both ends. Without that I doubt that HAM would be viable. easyJet tried it from BRS over ten years ago but couldn't make it work. The other German route with bmir from BRS is Dusseldorf (an earlier route to Hannover, one of Bristol's twin cities was short-lived) which seem to be continuing despite Ryanair's recently introduced 4 x weekly service to nearby Cologne. Perhaps the greater bmir frequency helps a bit.

Would Flybe pick up some of the bmir passengers if they began some of these routes? Probably none on the code shares unless Flybe managed to code share with LH, but possibly some of the point to pointers. I'm very doubtful if Hamburg would work. If easyJet couldn't hack it, could Flybe? easyJet's 'failure' still amounted to average loads in the low hundreds - too small for easyJet, but probably half that would be ok for Flybe - but I find difficulty in seeing a market. Stuttgart - now there's a thought. Somewhere I hadn't considered. Is there really a market?

If Flybe really wants to take on bmir at FRA and MUC they would have to increase fequencies considerably on the current CWL-MUC timetable. bmir operates 3 x daily on FRA and 2 x daily on MUC, less frequently at weekends. Apart from the code share passengers it's primarily a business orientated service, hence the high fares.

I agree about Spain. Lots of fertile ground there.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I can't help but think Germany is the Airports/WG wishlist rather than Flybe's.

 

[Tinkerman]

Great news that they’re finally talking about this in the public domain.

A 4th aircraft is not necessarily a capacity increase if further E195’s are to leave the fleet and be replaced by E175’s.

Also on the above comment, funny you should say that because on all Flybe Accounts filed, this operation is termed ‘Flybe for Cardiff Airport Limited’ ...

 

[Jerry]

I wouldn't be surprised if BE took over NCL

That would fit into the way Flybe seem to be operating at CWL, each aircraft during the week seems to operate a double daily route and Flybe do seem to operate 2 crews a day per aircraft so they could fit a 4th based aircraft around the double daily NCL.

I'm very doubtful if Hamburg would work.

For routes like Hamburg and Stuttgart to work they'd probably have to be like Dusseldorf, 1 maybe 2 weekly but with a German tour operator backing the routes with the focus on attracting inbound German tourism. Frankfurt would need to be more business orientated so more like 3 weekly.

I personally think MUC, MXP and TXL will all get reduced to 2x weekly,

I think they'll stay at 3 weekly, they do ok and shifted to E175s the loads will be better and it's possible Flybe's costs as well on those flights will go down as well, with the E175 only 2 cabin crew are required and the landing charges might be less at those airports because of the smaller aircraft.
I'd be surprised if Venice doesn't go year round, with Rome and Paris i think it depends on whether Flybe can get the slots 3 weekly for Rome could be possible and i wonder if they could get the slots they could go 12 weekly for Paris. Cork and Jersey will probably be 2 weekly. I also hope they'll go daily on Glasgow but i wonder if they'll look at going 3 daily on Dublin in the week. Geneva is a strange one, Flybe don't seem to have tried to increase it or start it in November or operate it year round, i'd expect that to stay at 1 weekly with Faro being 1 weekly as well. With new routes i wonder if they could look at Prague or maybe Krakow?

 

[Jerry]

News

6 MARCH
Flybe stimulates economic growth at Cardiff

• Growth to a three aircraft base
• Additional 22 Cardiff-based crew to support operation expanded base
• Employment boost to initial creation of 62 direct and 100 indirect jobs
• 130% increase in passengers since June 2015
• Number of routes more than doubled
• Increased opportunities for inbound tourism and investment

When Flybe, Europe’s largest regional airline, opened its new base at Cardiff Airport with a 10-year agreement in June 2015 the forecast was that it would create 50 new jobs to support the two Embraer jets operating the resultant doubling of routes, including six that were brand new, with an additional half-million extra seats made immediately available for customers in Wales

In just under three years, the airline now employs 62 staff at the airport and has created another 100 indirect jobs in ground handling and engineering support services there. This number will receive another boost at the end of March when a third aircraft arrives for the start of Flybe’s 2018 summer schedule, with an additional 22 Cardiff-based crew needed to support the airline’s expanded operation.

After opening its new base, Flybe rapidly became the airline operating the most flights out of Cardiff Airport by tapping into the 7.7 million people living within a comfortable two hour drive radius, realising a 130% increase in passenger numbers to 31st December 2017, with a similar increase and approximate 50/50 split between inbound and outbound customers. Today, Flybe offers 17 routes from Cardiff, up from its initial 11, with a choice of more than 75 return flights a week to seven countries. This includes a fourth Italian route to Venice, namely a twice-weekly service starting on 27th March, 2018. In addition, Flybe’s franchise partners Eastern Airways and Blue Islands offer four more routes to and from Cardiff.

However, it is not only the growth of Flybe’s direct flights that is of benefit. The airline has codeshare agreements with many long haul airlines that provide convenient onward connections between Cardiff and the rest of the world, giving customers a wealth of extra travel options when booked direct with the relevant international carrier or travel agent. Examples are to Dublin and onwards with Aer Lingus, Paris with Air France and Finnair, Edinburgh and Munich with Etihad, Glasgow with Virgin Atlantic and via Milan with Alitalia.

Vincent Hodder, Flybe’s Chief Strategy Officer comments: "The opening of our new Cardiff base three years ago marked an important milestone for Flybe. It extended our already established presence at Wales’ national airport. We have been pleased with our growth and expansion there to date and with the role we have played to stimulate further growth in the local economy.

“By offering customers an increasing selection of faster, convenient and more affordable options for air travel to and from Wales, customers are discovering it is far more convenient to travel to and from an airport that is close to them rather than drive hours to farther flung airports in England. Offering an attractive selection of destinations to and from local regional airports is our core business. The success of our growth at Cardiff also reflects our recent brand refresh that features the ‘Close to You’ strapline in our marketing messaging. It highlights the leading position and intent we have to continue providing unparalleled air travel to and from the regions. Our increased presence at Cardiff is perfect testament to this.”

Deb Barber, CEO of Cardiff Airport, added: “The opening of Flybe’s base in 2015 played an important part in our journey of recovery and transformation. Since opening, the airline has expanded its choice of routes and added more capacity on existing services, in line with our passenger growth. Today, it’s a key employer in the area, supporting a number of direct and indirect roles, which will be boosted with the arrival of the third aircraft, adding real value to the local economy in South Wales.

“We enjoy a dynamic partnership with Flybe, based on collaboration and a shared vision to offer our customers a choice of destinations, offered at convenient times and priced competitively. As the national airport for Wales, we look forward to continuing this successful venture with Europe’s largest regional airline, and to promoting new and existing opportunities for our customers here in South Wales.”

BACK TO NEWS

https://www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2018/03/06/flybe-stimulates-economic-growth-at-cardif/

 

[aviatorconcorde]

I can't help but think Germany is the Airports/WG wishlist rather than Flybe's.

I also get this impression. A similar sort of scenerio from a few years back comes to mind when the first minister was talking about getting A380's to fly to Cardiff.

See the below article, he mentions about widening the runway for the A380.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30101740

I do remember a chap called Clive from the old Wales Air Forum sharing that he went to a meeting once with the Airport and telling a civil servant to get the First Minister to wind in his comments about A380's. Quite amusing looking back.

 

[Jerry]

I also get this impression.

I believe both the airport and the Welsh government really want to increase inbound tourism from specifically from Germany as well as better business connections considering it's the largest economy in the EU.

A similar sort of scenerio from a few years back comes to mind when the first minister was talking about getting A380's to fly to Cardiff.

I do wish that the First Minister would just keep quiet about the airport because he seems to come out with just nonsense sometimes!

 

[aviatorconcorde]

I believe both the airport and the Welsh government really want to increase inbound tourism from specifically from Germany as well as better business connections considering it's the largest economy in the EU.

I do wish that the First Minister would just keep quiet about the airport because he seems to come out with just nonsense sometimes!

I certainly agree with you Jerry that inbound tourism is important and will be even more important moving into the future.

However I find it hard to justify flying an aircraft to Munich with a 50% load factor in peak Summer when they could be flying that aircraft to Ibiza with potentially a 90% load factor, all with paid for checked bags and spending lots of money when onboard the aircraft.

Sort out the sun routes first to drive passenger numbers before getting stuck in to the more challenging routes.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Thars the difference. German routes will likely have benefits to the economy. Sun routes dont. They just benefit the Airline.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Thars the difference. German routes will likely have benefits to the economy. Sun routes dont. They just benefit the Airline.

But sun routes drive up the airports passenger numbers, and when passenger numbers for the airport go up, it will attract attention from other carriers potential carriers. It also re-inforces the fact that Cardiff can be a beneficial base to flybe if it can show to be self sufficient.

I'm not saying don't bother with the German routes but like I said, flybe are missing a trick by not serving some sun routes such as ibiza.

 

[Jerry]

Sort out the sun routes first to drive passenger numbers before getting stuck in to the more challenging routes.

They need to find a balance between the two. Routes like Faro will make Flybe money but they don't benefit the Welsh economy whereas routes like Munich and Dusseldorf and Berlin do, the loads may not be great but any route development money can go towards them to at least make them break even for the airline. Otherwise we'll get a sun route airport that doesn't really benefit the Welsh economy.

 

[Jerry]

flybe are missing a trick by not serving some sun routes such as ibiza.

It may be possible as well that the airport were hoping that Vueling would expand such routes so got Flybe to concentrate on Italy and Germany and the UK.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In fairness to the FM, and I'm not a fan of any politican of any party, he does seem to have cut back on his nonsensical public utterings about the airport of a few years ago. I have no idea who was advising him at that time but they clearly had no conception of the aviation industry or of CWL, unless the FM was determined to plough his own furrow then come what may. I still have links to a number of farcical comments he made in those times. I've mentioned some on F4A in the past so won't go over old ground.

It may that Germany is more to the WG's liking than to Flybe's but if the WG continues to support the airline in order to make German routes viable then Flybe is not likely to object. A few years ago Flybe operated Frankfurt from SOU and MAN but the routes didn't last. MAN no doubt had competition on the route but SOU ought to have been ideal: a Flybe stronghold serving a vibrant economic area of southern England. Flybe doesn't seem to serve FRA at all now which might suggest that either decent slots are hard to come by or simply they couldn't make it work.

 

[Sean123]

I think cwl take a view that if they can build a successful european network allied with some l/h routes then the bucket & spade market will get picked up but maybe not the other way round

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I think cwl take a view that if they can build a successful european network allied with some l/h routes then the bucket & spade market will get picked up but maybe not the other way round

And thats what its all about. Eventually the Airport will be sold off to a private operator. That operator wont care about the routes that benefit Wales, they will want volume, passengers, planes and revenue.
The WG are effectively chartering these Aircraft under Blackbird. Whilst that is happening they will want to prove CWLs worth as an asset to the country, not the bank balance of a private company.

Now it seems flybe is seeing the benefits from both sides, hence the expansion. They can have low load routes funded and make money on sun routes as and when they see fit to introduce.

The severn tunnel will be closed 18th june-18th July. GWRs website is advising of the closure and diversions but looks like the timetable hasnt been amended.
Would be good to see BE back on LCY for a few weeks.

This whole story of the WG government taking on the airport was started when Carwyn Jones arrived on a KLM flight and criticised just about every aspect of the arrival process.

 

[Jerry]

Eventually the Airport will be sold off to a private operator.

Only part of it as the Welsh government has said that they want to keep a majority shareholding. They may have the fear that if they sell it off completely then all the routes that have been built up will be lost.

The severn tunnel will be closed 18th june-18th July. GWRs website is advising of the closure and diversions but looks like the timetable hasnt been amended.
Would be good to see BE back on LCY for a few weeks.

That would be good to see back even if just temporarily and i wonder if they could use 1 of Easterns E170s as well.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Although like mentioned these routes need to benefit Wales as a whole, I still think possibly adding one or two more sun routes would give the base a more concrete foundation to drive the passenger numbers.

Of course the routes to develop business are important, but I guess it's the chicken and the egg scenerio. Again, Like mentioned, the WAG probably hope they can get an airline to operate them off their own back. This is totally understandable.

 

[CWL94]

BE's W18/19 timetable is out. Not alot has changed for CWL.

TXL reduced from 3 to 2x weekly (Thu and Sun)
MUC reduced from 3 to 2x weeky (Mon and Fri) (Wed flights are available Dec only)
FAO 2 weekly all through the winter schedule instead of bit part this winter
MXP reduced from 3 to 2x weekly (Mon and Fri)
GVA increased from 1 to 2x weekly (Tue and Sat)
No VCE

everything else is the same from this winter