Cardiff: General Airport Discussion & Updates

[Jerry]

Looks like WalesOnline have finally got hold of Willie Walsh's press release about dropping APD leading to Level long haul flights. At least it's free advertising for the airport.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/busin...antic-budget-airline-cardiff-airport-14307816

 

[Jerry]

I just wondered if any of you guys down there, know whats going on at Swansea Airport these days ? I've never been there, but I did fly on Air Wales once CWL-LCY and the plane came in from Swansea.

Thanks
Carl

From what i know it's just general aviation that flies out of their now, i'm not even sure there is business jets flying out of there either. There was some talk a while back of one of the Swansea City directors going to try and get it up and running again and try to attract Flybe to operate flights but that has come to nothing and i doubt anything will.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/busin...naire-wants-start-commercial-flights-11786526

 

[CraigW92]

Actually been off here for a while but I'll echo the sentiments of the others abd welcome @Cardiffbay and @aviatorconcorde , look forward to you both joining in the discussions and posting your views 🙂

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There is a discussion on the BRS forum about the value of a runway extension there with a view, apparently shared by the airport, that the cost of such an extension would not be justified by the limited results it might bring.

I wondered what might be the case at CWL. So far as I can ascertain the last extension to the CWL runway was in the mid 1980s and added 229 metres. I don't know how much it would have cost at today's prices.

Had that extension not been built then would the current owners build it now? The same cost:reward balance would apply as it does currently at BRS. There has been talk of extending the CWL runway even further. The same question applies.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There is a discussion on the BRS forum about the value of a runway extension there with a view, apparently shared by the airport, that the cost of such an extension would not be justified by the limited return it might bring.

I wondered what might be the case at CWL. So far as I can ascertain the last extension to the CWL runway was in the mid 1980s and added 229 metres. I don't know how much it would have cost at today's prices.

Had that extension not been built then would the current owners build it now? The same cost:reward balance would apply as it does currently at BRS. There has been talk of extending the CWL runway even further. The same question applies.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

There is a discussion on the BRS forum about the value of a runway extension there with a view, apparently shared by the airport, that the cost of such an extension would not be justified by the limited return it might bring.

I wondered what might be the case at CWL. So far as I can ascertain the last extension to the CWL runway was in the mid 1980s and added 229 metres. I don't know how much it would have cost at today's prices.

Had that extension not been built then would the current owners build it now? The same cost:reward balance would apply as it does currently at BRS. There has been talk of extending the CWL runway even further. The same question applies.

I don't think there would of been a huge ammount of difference in what we have seen now with a shorter runway. Cardiff has always really been a short haul airport and it may be in a similar situation to where it is now in terms of passenger numbers. It hasn't constantly benefited from a longer runway and well set up taxi ways apart from the fact BAMC is present. This is hopefully about to change with Qatar.

I also don't think there would be a business case for a longer runway, less of a case than what Bristol have now depending on your point of view.

Problem with large investments such as this one is that there is no gurantee you will be able to make the money back from
Construction and then maintenance costs, plus the 3-4 year war you will have to fight with local residents.

 

[Silvercity]

From what i know it's just general aviation that flies out of their now, i'm not even sure there is business jets flying out of there either. There was some talk a while back of one of the Swansea City directors going to try and get it up and running again and try to attract Flybe to operate flights but that has come to nothing and i doubt anything will.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/busin...naire-wants-start-commercial-flights-11786526

Thanks for the update.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I don't think there would of been a huge ammount of difference in what we have seen now with a shorter runway. Cardiff has always really been a short haul airport and it may be in a similar situation to where it is now in terms of passenger numbers. It hasn't constantly benefited from a longer runway and well set up taxi ways apart from the fact BAMC is present. This is hopefully about to change with Qatar.

I also don't think there would be a business case for a longer runway, less of a case than what Bristol have now depending on your point of view.

Problem with large investments such as this one is that there is no gurantee you will be able to make the money back from
Construction and then maintenance costs, plus the 3-4 year war you will have to fight with local residents.

The reason I posed the question is because to a degree the CWL owner has a different imperative to that of the BRS owners. The latter is wholly owned by the private sector with a clear need to run the airport as profitably as possible, although the increasing value of the asset is obviously important too. Although CWL will need to become profitable in time the government has stated that having an airport that can help to improve the Welsh economy is also an important element of its ownership.

The airport chairman stated that CWL will see an ebitda profit (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation) next year (or is it the year after?) but this is not an actual profit of course, although the headlines play well for the government because most people just read the word profit.

For a runway extension, as with the major terminal upgrade or rebuild that is being talked about, it's almost certain that major private sector involvement would be required for funding and the private sector, as with the BRS owners, would have a different perspective regarding returns on its investment.

I would be extremely surprised if a further extension was built, or even be needed, but my other academic point was to muse whether the government would extend the runway to its present length if it hadn't already been extended 30 years ago. To that we shall never know the answer.

 

[Jerry]

With it's current flights Cardiff doesn't need a runway extension. I think the last time Roger Lewis went on Jason Mohamed's Radio Wales show, a caller mentioned about 747 flights and Roger Lewis said that with modern aircraft A330s and 787s would be the aircraft seen the most. I think if the runway was to be extended it would be with dedicated cargo flights in mind but that sort of investment would have to mean a lot of cargo flights.

As for whether the Welsh Government would've extended the runway, i guess they would've had to weigh the costs to what it would attract and what sort of connections for Wales a big investment like that would bring.

 

[Jerry]

News

20 FEBRUARY
Cardiff Airport’s half term getaway
The first few days of the February half term holidays are off to a flying start at Cardiff Airport, with approximately 22,000 customers expected this week.

Trends in passenger travel since the start of the week shows that customers are using Wales’ national airport as the departure point to reach far-flung long haul destinations with KLM, using Amsterdam Schiphol as their connecting hub. Popular choices include:

Asia

USA and Canada

Middle East

Africa

Osaka

Toronto

Saudi Arabia

Sierra Leone

Hong Kong

Detroit

Kuwait

Uganda

Beijing

Miami

Dubai

Namibia

Shanghai

Chicago

Muscat

Ghana

Singapore

New York







Snow bunnies are also making the most of the early spring snow by flying off to the slopes with Flybe. Convenient and cost effective ski flights to Munich, Milan Malpensa, Chambery and Geneva create gateways to some of the best ski and snowboarding resorts in the Alps.

City break enthusiasts are making the most of year-round flights to Rome Fiumicino with Flybe, a great option for a weekend of exploring, food and wine. While Jersey, also with Flybe, is a short hop from the UK boasts fresh seafood and miles of rugged coastline with the added touch of French influence.

Our customers are also opting for some spring Spanish sun. Flights to Alicante and Malaga depart with Vueling throughout the year, offering access to resorts like Benidorm, Torrevieja, Torremolinos and Marbella.

Debra Barber, CEO of Cardiff Airport, said: “We enjoy welcoming excited passengers as they fly off for a half term break or to visit friends and family. It’s interesting to see the trends in our passengers’ travel habits and the popular routes at this time of year.

“It’s been an exciting start to the year, with passenger growth and terminal developments well underway. Following what was a strong start to the year with 9% growth for January and over 1.473 million passengers having flown over the last 12 months, Wales’ national airport is gearing up for a busy year ahead.

“As the country’s national airport, we’re very passionate about delivering a warm Welsh welcome to visitors on arrival to Wales, with international passengers flying in daily with KLM and even more expected when Qatar Airways’ service starts in May.

“Cardiff Airport is proudly flying the flag for Wales every day of the year.”

https://www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2018/02/20/cardiff-airports-half-term-getaway/

 

[aviatorconcorde]

With it's current flights Cardiff doesn't need a runway extension. I think the last time Roger Lewis went on Jason Mohamed's Radio Wales show, a caller mentioned about 747 flights and Roger Lewis said that with modern aircraft A330s and 787s would be the aircraft seen the most. I think if the runway was to be extended it would be with dedicated cargo flights in mind but that sort of investment would have to mean a lot of cargo flights.

As for whether the Welsh Government would've extended the runway, i guess they would've had to weigh the costs to what it would attract and what sort of connections for Wales a big investment like that would bring.

Considering Cardiff has a long runway, relatively cheap to operate into and cargo facilities, it’s a shame Cardiff hasn’t been able to chip away at Cargo flights a bit better. The M4 corridor is within easy reach and there is fair size population centres within a 100 mile radius. Look what East Midlands has grown into over the years, if Cardiff could of been half of that it would of been something.

There was a cargo flight on a prop aircraft that used to turn up at about 2am for a few years which I believe was with Atlantic airways. Does anyone know what it was carrying and why it was terminated?

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

It was a Royal Mail contract bringing mail from East Midlands to Cardiff. I believe this was moved from Bristol due to them chasing pax over cargo.

Aircraft would then position to Bournemouth and wait a couple of hours before picking up mail and taking it to Jersey.

Flight was axed as a commercial decision by Royal Mail who insisted to take Mail by road instead.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It was a Royal Mail contract bringing mail from East Midlands to Cardiff. I believe this was moved from Bristol due to them chasing pax over cargo.

Aircraft would then position to Bournemouth and wait a couple of hours before picking up mail and taking it to Jersey.

Flight was axed as a commercial decision by Royal Mail who insisted to take Mail by road instead.

Yes. I knew the RM manager at BRS. BRS wanted to develop the north side further for passengers as you say, and offered RM a move to the south side of the airport but at a ridiculous rent.

For a year or two after the flight moved to CWL the RM manager drove from his Bristol home to CWL every night to supervise the unloading. He didn't seem to mind. I said it would have driven me mad.

Going back a few years before that RM had quite an extensive network around regional airports.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

It was a Royal Mail contract bringing mail from East Midlands to Cardiff. I believe this was moved from Bristol due to them chasing pax over cargo.

Aircraft would then position to Bournemouth and wait a couple of hours before picking up mail and taking it to Jersey.

Flight was axed as a commercial decision by Royal Mail who insisted to take Mail by road instead.

Interesting - thanks for your input.

 

[Seasider]

It was a Royal Mail contract bringing mail from East Midlands to Cardiff. I believe this was moved from Bristol due to them chasing pax over cargo.

Aircraft would then position to Bournemouth and wait a couple of hours before picking up mail and taking it to Jersey.

Flight was axed as a commercial decision by Royal Mail who insisted to take Mail by road instead.

To Jersey? 🤔

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

To Jersey? 🤔

Mail was on the East Midlands to Cardiff sector.

Aircraft would then position empty to Bournemouth and sit for a couple of hours.

Mail from Bournemouth would then be transported to Jersey.

 

[CWL94]

flylolo are offering a flight from CWL to Reykjavík with Iceland Air

Dep Thu 26th Apr
CWL 14:55 - 16:15 KEF

Arr Tue 1st May
KEF 14:55 - 18:15 CWL

has this got anything to do with Superbreak or is this an extra one off flight?

 

[Jerry]

flylolo are offering a flight from CWL to Reykjavík with Iceland Air

Dep Thu 26th Apr
CWL 14:55 - 16:15 KEF

Arr Tue 1st May
KEF 14:55 - 18:15 CWL

has this got anything to do with Superbreak or is this an extra one off flight?

I believe these flights are the empty legs of an Icelandic choir charter. Superbreak is using Enter Air for it's flights.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Nothing on Icelandair website so would maybe take with a pinch of salt.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Nothing on Icelandair website so would maybe take with a pinch of salt.

It isn't on Icelandairs website but is on Flyolo's. I just checked, something like £250 one way. No thanks...