Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[aviatorconcorde]

My recent flight to Doha seemed about half full in Economy and about 4 seats empty in Business. Obviously the lounge issues aren’t bothering too many people!

 

[Jerry]

My recent flight to Doha seemed about half full in Economy and about 4 seats empty in Business. Obviously the lounge issues aren’t bothering too many people!

Good to know that the business cabin is getting a decent LF!

 

[Jerry]

The Welsh government has extended Cardiff airports loan facility to £59.4 million.

Cardiff Airport to be loaned more taxpayers' cash

The amount of taxpayers cash available for Cardiff Airport to borrow has risen to £59.4m.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Jerry]

Reading the article more in depth it says it's a separate loan for investment over the next 6 years.

He said the airport has "agreed to provide an extended commercial loan facility to the airport of up to £21.2m to help support its ambitious plans for the future. The airport will repay the loan in full, with interest, under a planned repayment schedule".

The loan would deliver the airport's proposals for "significant further investment" in their facilities over the next six years, Mr Skates said.

The number of passengers at the airport has

 

[TheLocalYokel]

A March 2016 report by the WG's Public Accounts Committee regarding the 'Welsh Government's acquisition and ownership of Cardiff Airport' dealt in part with current and future finance. At that time a £23 million loan facility had been made available but the report made it clear that the airport company anticipated that further finance would be needed before 2020. The loan facility was later extended to £38 million and now £59 million in total.

So it was clearly signposted in the 2016 report that further finance would be needed but the likely amount was not mentioned. As long as the airport can service its debt without getting into difficulty there ought not to be a problem. There might be a warning signal though with a senior official telling a WG committee that 'under the way the airport is currently run, it may always need public support'.

I took the 'way the airport is currently run' comment to be support for the WG's Economy and Transport Minister's assertion that the airport's plans to boost passenger growth are hampered by 'the disproportionate costs that smaller airports across the UK face'.

The minister went on to say that 'Regulatory burdens and security measures are not shared proportionately and we continue to press the UK government to develop a more competitive environment for smaller, ambitious airports wanting to grow and expand'.

Exeter Airport is perhaps the closest parallel to CWL - geographically, passenger throughput, recovering from several years of significant passenger losses during and immediately post-recession, losing a significant number of potential passengers to Bristol Airport.

Exeter is owned by The Rigby Group, a conglomerate with wide-ranging interests. Its Regional and City Airports division is seeing increased profits. It owns Exeter, Bournemouth, Norwich and Coventry airports and operates three other small ones.

They are all smaller airports than CWL in terms of passenger numbers and also suffer from the 'disproportionate costs' mentioned by the Economy and Transport Minister.

So if they are seen as profitable investments why isn't CWL?

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

I wonder if the real issue here is that Cardiff Airport is a 24/7 airport.

Exeter Airport charges an extortionate amount of money for out of hours when it comes to executive jet movements.

They are also the owners of the executive Jet Centre at Exeter and unsure if their handling is also in house.

That would be the reason how it is profitable as they run everything themselves.

I know XLR has also just taken over executive handling at Bournemouth from Signature. I’m assuming therefore that the Rigby Group therefore owners Bournemouth.

At Cardiff Airport they have taken a lot in house. They didn’t however take handling in house which I was surprised at. Of course it would have cost a lot up front but would have worked out in the long run.

There are now two executive handling agents at Cardiff Airport (Global Trek Aviation & Signature Flight Support)

 

[Jerry]

It was stated that the new loan is separate for investment in facilities over the next 6 years.
Looking at the airport what new facilities would it really need that would require it to take out such a loan?
Also is the money actually for Cardiff and not for St Athan? There was an article about Caerdav doing a painting hangar and an aviation facility. Could the money potentially be for that?
Oh and could it be also for a based airline? An LCC?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I wonder if the real issue here is that Cardiff Airport is a 24/7 airport.

Exeter Airport charges an extortionate amount of money for out of hours when it comes to executive jet movements.

They are also the owners of the executive Jet Centre at Exeter and unsure if their handling is also in house.

That would be the reason how it is profitable as they run everything themselves.

I know XLR has also just taken over executive handling at Bournemouth from Signature. I’m assuming therefore that the Rigby Group therefore owners Bournemouth.

At Cardiff Airport they have taken a lot in house. They didn’t however take handling in house which I was surprised at. Of course it would have cost a lot up front but would have worked out in the long run.

There are now two executive handling agents at Cardiff Airport (Global Trek Aviation & Signature Flight Support)

If EXT charges a lot of money for out of hours executive jet movements why doesn't CWL do the same? If the jet owners are willing to pay handsomely at EXT why would they not at CWL?

We know that the previous CWL owners virtually ran it into the ground and are responsible for many of the ills that befell the airport at the time, but that explanation can't be used for ever, although that appears to be the case from the comment of the senior WG civil servant that the airport might always need public support.

If EXT did have/does have a better business model then due diligence prior to the purchase of CWL ought to have shown the WG what was lacking and what was needed and how much it would cost to put CWL's own business model right.

As far as I'm aware the WG's position is that it intends to remain the major shareholder if and when the private sector also comes aboard. That's another reason why I found the senior civil servant's remark curious. Would the tax payers still be expected to chip in to keep a part privatised airport afloat when the private sector partner was making money out of it? I can't visualise any private sector partner wanting to join in if there was no reasonable prospect of profitability for it in the foreseeable future after it joined.

The Economy and Transport minister says that he wants the UK government to develop a more competitive environment in order to allow smaller airports to grow and expand. It seems that the small airports owned by Rigby are doing all right in the present environment not that they would turn away governmental help I am sure, as any airport would not. Perhaps the minister should also be looking at ways of making CWL more self-sufficient financially.

 

[Jerry]

If EXT charges a lot of money for out of hours executive jet movements why doesn't CWL do the same? If the jet owners are willing to pay handsomely at EXT why would they not at CWL?

I wonder if the problem is that they are scared that they'll drive whatever traffic they are getting across the bridge?

 

[Jerry]

I can't visualise any private sector partner wanting to join in if there was no reasonable prospect of profitability for it in the foreseeable future after it joined.

Whether this is true or not I don't know but someone on a Facebook group said that several investment groups were interested in the airport and one at least made an offer, it wasn't stated whether that was rejected or accepted or is still under consideration.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I wonder if the real issue here is that Cardiff Airport is a 24/7 airport.

At Cardiff Airport they have taken a lot in house. They didn’t however take handling in house which I was surprised at. Of course it would have cost a lot up front but would have worked out in the long run.

There are now two executive handling agents at Cardiff Airport (Global Trek Aviation & Signature Flight Support)

EXT has a very basic handling requirement as it's generally Q400's or 737's in and out. CWL is different as not only does it have QR daily it also hosts widebody diversions and the annual large scale events. To take that in house will mean they won't be able to call upon the nationwide spread that Swissport or any handler can provide in not only boosting staffing levels but equipment too. I'm not sure of the economics of that but if it was that beneficial to have an in house handler then many other Airports would be doing the same.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting piece of info about the airports finances.
In terms of passenger income, £3 was made per departing passenger and in terms of commercial income, that increased from £4.53 to £4.78 per departing passenger.
I wonder how that stacks up to other airports?

Cardiff Airport is being given another £21m by the Welsh Government

There are concerns that having made millions of pounds in losses more money is being 'pumped into it'

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Interesting piece of info about the airports finances.
In terms of passenger income, £3 was made per departing passenger and in terms of commercial income, that increased from £4.53 to £4.78 per departing passenger.
I wonder how that stacks up to other airports?

Cardiff Airport is being given another £21m by the Welsh Government

There are concerns that having made millions of pounds in losses more money is being 'pumped into it'

www.walesonline.co.uk

The BRS financial figures for 2018 shows £4.87 per passenger from aeronautical income. The commercial income figure per passenger is not shown.

 

[Jerry]

The BRS financial figures for 2018 shows £4.87 per passenger from aeronautical income. The commercial income figure per passenger is not shown.

So is the £4.87 for Bristol the £3 figure for Cardiff? If so it seems quite a way behind.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

So is the £4.87 for Bristol the £3 figure for Cardiff? If so it seems quite a way behind.

I don't know how CWL came by their figure.

In the Bristol Airport Limited Annual Report and Financial Statements for the year ended 31 December 2018 this extract appeared:

The higher passenger volumes meant aeronautical revenue was 8% above 2017, ahead of passenger growth, with a 1.9% higher yield than 2017 at £4.87 (2017: £4.78) per passenger. The increase in yield was generated from improved new deals with a number of airlines and annual increases in charges for airlines on longer-term contracts.

Commercial revenue increased by 14.4% from 2017, also ahead of passenger growth, with yields 7.8% better than last year.

The actual figure per passenger for commercial revenue is not stated.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

There are complexities involved in the financials now as Cardiff Airport are also running St Athan on behalf of the Welsh Government.

How this revenue Shows on the books I don’t know.

In regards to the large events then there are always ways and means to accomplish this. The managers and admin staff could be trained in readiness for these one off events to carry out certain tasks such as meeting and greeting etc.

In regards to the mention of out of hours charges. It is hard for Cardiff Airport to charge this when they advertise as being 24/7 airport.

When it comes to diverts etc then realistically how many diverts have we actually had? Is it more profitable to keep an airport open 24/7 for the odd divert? or is it more profitable to close the airport after the last scheduled arrival and charge a large amount for ad-hoc?

Also we can’t only assume as the runway is technically open there is actually the correct number of staff inside the terminal through the various companies to handle said diverts.

Bristol is open 24/7 however for executive jets their Executive Jet Centre closes at 1900 so any time over that comes at an Out of Hours (OOH) Fee. This pays for overtime of staff etc plus more.

Exeter has similar fee in place. Their OOH fee however is more as it not only covers the opening of the Executive Jet Centre however also the cost of the ATC, Fire Section, Security etc.

I suppose we will never know however in my current employment I hope the airport continues to remain 24/7 with no additional costs as we are bringing in some new business which in turn is generating more revenue for the airport.

 

[geoff]

First Minister of Wales has stated in the Senedd today, that the Welsh Government has no intention of selling CWL, article on bbc welsh news.

 

[Jerry]

Redirect Notice

 

[Jerry]

From the article.
He said only 14% of airports with scheduled flights in the world are privately owned.
"Our model in Wales is absolutely mainstream, it puts us in the same position as JFK in New York or Charles de Gaulle in Paris.
"Around the world governments recognise that a successful airport is an investment on behalf of the economy and the population of that area."

 

[TheLocalYokel]

From the article.
He said only 14% of airports with scheduled flights in the world are privately owned.
"Our model in Wales is absolutely mainstream, it puts us in the same position as JFK in New York or Charles de Gaulle in Paris.
"Around the world governments recognise that a successful airport is an investment on behalf of the economy and the population of that area."

Crikey, a politician ought to be careful with his/her quotes/comments. They can be taken out of context. People will be saying that the FM is suggesting that CWL will become a JFK or a CDG.

Whilst there are some UK airports owned or part-owned by local authorities it's just not viable for every airport in the four home countries to be government-owned.

Had BRS stayed in local authority ownership it would be struggling because for starters it could not have afforded its terminal and all the other infrastructure that's been put in place since private sector ownership.

Of the four countries that make up the UK Wales is unique in terms of airports as CWL is the only one in the country with regular scheduled and charter services. Government ownership of the airport therefore can work in Wales whereas the same policy across England and probably Scotland would not - too many airports, especially in England, and if they were all government-owned the owner would be competing against itself in some instances.

CWL certainly needs more scheduled services and to business-orientated destinations if the airport really is to play its part in further growth of the country's economy.