Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Seasider]

Maybe they are frightened that CWL will take back the passengers that BRS "pinched" from them?

 

[geoff]

Jobs fair at the airport tomorrow between 9am and 1pm. A poster on Facebook, has said that Swissport have advertised on Indeed jobs website vacancies for six positions in the Cargo Department at CWL. I have not personally seen the advert. Good news if it is correct, possible expansion of European Cargo?

 

[Jerry]

Jobs fair at the airport tomorrow between 9am and 1pm. A poster on Facebook, has said that Swissport have advertised on Indeed jobs website vacancies for six positions in the Cargo Department at CWL. I have not personally seen the advert. Good news if it is correct, possible expansion of European Cargo?

Well European Cargo are getting extra aircraft and Bournemouth apparently has limited capacity so hopefully we'll see more cargo flights again.

 

[Barry Man]

Here is a picture of the 3 new stands ,bottom right which have just been built for European cargo at Bournemouth

 

[Jerry]

Here is a picture of the 3 new stands ,bottom right which have just been built for European cargo at Bournemouth

But even with those apparently Bournemouth still has capacity limits which helps Cardiff of course.

 

[geoff]

According to Jethro's, European Cargo has 7 340s registered to them, one is in Malta on Maintenance, and another was in the Phillippines for the same reason until recently, so only three are in use at the present time.

 

[Samdorob]

Interesting - I’ve read a comment on Facebook, presumably from someone who works on the ground that there will be 4 weekly Cargo flights from October.

It of course might just be a rumour.

 

[MJC73]

Maybe they are frightened that CWL will take back the passengers that BRS "pinched" from them?

Of course not all Welsh domiciled passengers will divert to Cardiff but it makes up around 10- 20% (?) of their footfall so I understand why they are concerned. But then again, they should wind their neck in.

 

[Aviador]

I don't know why BRS get getting "excited" about the subsidy to CWL by the Welsh government, Doncaster Borough council want to subsidise DSA by over £100 million.

The Welsh Government has invested £179.6 million, with a new £205.2 million subsidy approved over 10 years

Imagine two burger drive-thru restaurants sitting side by side. Both started as privately owned ventures. One thrives through solid business practices, while the other begins to falter. To prevent its closure, the local council steps in and buys the struggling outlet. Later, the council announces plans to invest further in its newly acquired business to help it succeed. This puts the original, successful competitor at a strategic disadvantage-competing not just with another business, but with publicly funded support behind it.

You need to look beyond the Welsh political system or the debate about whether Wales should have its own airport and focus on the fundamentals. That is why it isn't acceptable.

Maybe they are frightened that CWL will take back the passengers that BRS "pinched" from them?

Not really pinched. Airlines and passengers choose where to fly from. If Cardiff can't muster up enough airlines and passengers that is economics at play.

 

[Jerry]

You need to look beyond the Welsh political system or the debate about whether Wales should have its own airport and focus on the fundamentals. That is why it isn't acceptable.

2 burger joints in different countries and one is the only burger joint in that country.
You can't not include the political aspect and that Wales is a separate country in it's own right with some form of self governance.
So what should the Welsh government do? They own what they believe is an asset to the country and to make that asset viable they believe it needs continued investment. Without that investment it's highly likely the airport could close with all the resulting job losses.
So again what should the Welsh government do?

 

[Aviador]

So again what should the Welsh government do?

I acknowledge the necessity of maintaining Cardiff Airport's operation. Some continued public support can be justified, provided it is explicitly linked to the airport fulfilling a unique strategic role for Wales, is phased out according to a clear plan, and undergoes stringent scrutiny. This support is a bridge to self-sufficiency within its defined remit. Conversely, undirected "handouts" without this strategic purpose and robust accountability are unsustainable.

 

[Jerry]

I acknowledge the necessity of maintaining Cardiff Airport's operation. Some continued public support can be justified, provided it is explicitly linked to the airport fulfilling a unique strategic role for Wales, is phased out according to a clear plan, and undergoes stringent scrutiny. This support is a bridge to self-sufficiency within its defined remit. Conversely, undirected "handouts" without this strategic purpose and robust accountability are unsustainable.

I've actually posted the whole submission because it states what they'll do with the investment and as Cardiff now comes under the Economy Secretary not the Transport Secretary the emphasis seems to be on job creation and economic connections. I've also highlighted some things which i think are important.

From the Welsh government submission
The overarching objective is to address inequality in the Welsh economy compared to the rest of the UK by growing the aviation sector and aerospace businesses with the Airport at the centre, as aligned with the WG key priorities and economic policy objectives for the Airport.
The specific policy objective to address the equity issues evidenced and discussed in the referral submission is to grow the regional economic activity associated with the Airport and maximise the potential agglomeration benefits linked with to the wider aviation and aerospace sectors in the region.
The investment in the Airport will contribute to the Programme for Government well-being objectives, through:
Building an economy based on the principles of fair work, sustainability and the industries and services of the future.
Enable tourism, sports and arts industries in Wales to thrive.
Give Wales the strongest possible presence on the world stage.
Subsidy award descriptionWelsh Government (WG) purchased Cardiff Airport in 2013 due to lack of private operator investment and decline in passenger numbers. It remains in WG ownership, as a commercial company (Cardiff International Airport Ltd - CIAL) owned at arm’s length from WG via a holding company (WGC Holdco Ltd). WG continues to support the Airport to benefit Wales through economic development and tourism.
WG is proposing to contribute up to £205.2 million over ten years to CIAL for the purposes of growing the regional economic activity associated with the Airport to help address the lower level of economic development in Wales compared to the rest of the UK and to encourage growth in areas in the vicinity of the Airport with high levels of deprivation – key WG priorities and economic policy objectives for the Airport.
The maximum amount of £205.2 million will be dispersed to CIAL subject to demand over the 10-year period, business case justification and CIAL’s progress against Key Performance Indicators (KPIs).
The investment is aimed at attracting non passenger businesses (package 1) and targeted route development (package 2). The totals allocated to each package will be ringfenced to ensure that the maximum amount of subsidy for each package is not exceeded.
For all proposed developments, CIAL must make every reasonable effort to deliver without recourse to public subsidy. WGC Holdco Ltd will provide assurance to WG that, where subsidy is required CIAL: can demonstrate it has explored all reasonable private financing options can demonstrate that it will use the minimum amount of subsidy needed to deliver the project
The focus for non-passenger business growth is maintenance, repair and overhaul facilities, general aviation, cargo and development of lower carbon aviation technologies.
Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul (MRO) Facilities
There is existing and growing demand for these services worldwide as aviation demand has rebounded since the pandemic and airlines are working to increase their fleet sizes. The Airport is an ideal location for additional MRO facilities for several reasons:
Can accommodate wide-bodied aircraft MRO
Located in an aerospace engineering cluster with excellent feeder further and higher education establishments, so it is easier to attract/generate skilled workers
Has vacant land on the airfield ready for development
"The aim is to invest in at least two new MRO operations centres, to be built on-site. They will be smaller than the existing British Airways facility and forecast to employ at least 500 people, the majority of whom would be resident in South Wales.General Aviation (GA), Fixed Base Operations (FBO) & hangarage. To make the most of the potential GA market, the Airport intends to upgrade some of its on-site facilities and infrastructure, with a focus on supporting the growth of existing local GA companies and increasing the Airport’s appeal to major event organisers. To support this, the Airport will also invest in enhancing its FBO centres for business jet activity. Expanding FBO and GA services at the Airport will provide recruitment opportunities. FBOs require a diverse range of professionals, including pilots, flying instructors, mechanics, customer service representatives, and administrative personnel. Again, it is expected that the majority of jobs created will be taken by people resident in South Wales and the range of jobs will provide a mix of very high skill, high wage roles together with more accessible roles. Cargo The Airport will invest in cargo centre enhancements and initiatives to increase the use of belly hold freight on hub flights. As well as benefiting regional businesses by offering shorter supply chains to new markets, higher cargo capacity will also require more handlers, so new local jobs will be created .Lower carbon aviation technologies. There are clear tensions between owning an airport and tackling the climate emergency, but the WG sees the Airport as a means by which it can, over time, take action to lower the environmental impact of flights to and from Wales and generate more green jobs. One avenue to achieve this is via accelerating the use of Sustainable Aviation Fuels at the Airport. Air Route Development The targeted air route development programme will concentrate on global aviation hubs and economic centres that are central to the WG’s wider economic growth aspirations. The route development programme also contains some provision for incentivising existing airline customers to expand their operations - especially those currently operating services to cities of economic importance - either through new routes, increased service frequency, larger aircraft, or some combination thereof. The terms of the agreement between WG and CIAL will prevent airlines from receiving any form of subsidy .Other capital investments, mainly in the form of terminal building and infrastructure upgrades, are included to enable the Airport to service the number of annual passengers in a manner consistent with WG polices around sustainability and equalities (especially for disabled passengers). The Airport also needs to be able to cope with surges in demand linked to major events, many of which take place in the summer peak period.The proposed subsidy was publicly announced on the 22nd July – Written Statement: Cardiff Wales Airport–long term strategy(22 July 2024)|GOV.WALES"

https://searchforuksubsidies.beis.gov.uk/searchresultsawardroute/?page=37039

Here's another question if the airport was under private ownership and the government announced they'd be doing this investment as part of economic development would that be considered as wrong? Because governments do invest taxpayer money in industries like aviation all the time to help create jobs.

 

[Aviador]

I'm reposting this again as the reply because it states what they'll do with the investment and as Cardiff now comes under the Economy Secretary not the Transport Secretary the emphasis seems to be on job creation and economic connections. I've also highlighted some things which i think are important.

From the Welsh government submission
"The aim is to invest in at least two new MRO operations centres, to be built on-site. They will be smaller than the existing British Airways facility and forecast to employ at least 500 people, the majority of whom would be resident in South Wales.General Aviation (GA), Fixed Base Operations (FBO) & hangarage. To make the most of the potential GA market, the Airport intends to upgrade some of its on-site facilities and infrastructure, with a focus on supporting the growth of existing local GA companies and increasing the Airport’s appeal to major event organisers. To support this, the Airport will also invest in enhancing its FBO centres for business jet activity. Expanding FBO and GA services at the Airport will provide recruitment opportunities. FBOs require a diverse range of professionals, including pilots, flying instructors, mechanics, customer service representatives, and administrative personnel. Again, it is expected that the majority of jobs created will be taken by people resident in South Wales and the range of jobs will provide a mix of very high skill, high wage roles together with more accessible roles. Cargo The Airport will invest in cargo centre enhancements and initiatives to increase the use of belly hold freight on hub flights. As well as benefiting regional businesses by offering shorter supply chains to new markets, higher cargo capacity will also require more handlers, so new local jobs will be created .Lower carbon aviation technologies. There are clear tensions between owning an airport and tackling the climate emergency, but the WG sees the Airport as a means by which it can, over time, take action to lower the environmental impact of flights to and from Wales and generate more green jobs. One avenue to achieve this is via accelerating the use of Sustainable Aviation Fuels at the Airport. Air Route Development The targeted air route development programme will concentrate on global aviation hubs and economic centres that are central to the WG’s wider economic growth aspirations. The route development programme also contains some provision for incentivising existing airline customers to expand their operations - especially those currently operating services to cities of economic importance - either through new routes, increased service frequency, larger aircraft, or some combination thereof. The terms of the agreement between WG and CIAL will prevent airlines from receiving any form of subsidy .Other capital investments, mainly in the form of terminal building and infrastructure upgrades, are included to enable the Airport to service the number of annual passengers in a manner consistent with WG polices around sustainability and equalities (especially for disabled passengers). The Airport also needs to be able to cope with surges in demand linked to major events, many of which take place in the summer peak period.The proposed subsidy was publicly announced on the 22nd July – Written Statement: Cardiff Wales Airport–long term strategy(22 July 2024)|GOV.WALES"

https://searchforuksubsidies.beis.gov.uk/searchresultsawardroute/?page=37039

Here's another question if the airport was under private ownership and the government announced they'd be doing this investment as part of economic development would that be considered as wrong? Because governments do invest taxpayer money in industries like aviation all the time to help create jobs.

If the investment is with a view to reaching a sustainable outcome where it can eventually be handed over to a private operator or run as a limited company by the Welsh government, then yes I agree. But it shouldn't be focused on undercutting a neighbouring airport private business which is how it has appeared to some degree, or at least by the language spoken here and elsewhere.

I can only say this is why there needs to be legal clarity on what is deemed as fair and unfair competition. In this case I would say it's a fine line.

 

[Jerry]

If the investment is with a view to reaching a sustainable outcome where it can eventually be handed over to a private operator or run as a limited company by the Welsh government, then yes I agree.

Well Ken Skates didn't rule out seeking private investment. But currently is it an attractive investment for private investors?
I believe it is already a limited company the company name is Cardiff International Airport Limited.

 

[Aviador]

Bristol isn't in a position to be able to offer belly cargo flights so I believe that is definitely a good move by Cardiff as it can serve the whole of the South West not just Cardiff. CWL should continue to focus on doing things that BRS can't. It's slightly longer runway gives it the advantage for some longer routes and cargo ops.

 

[Jerry]

Bristol isn't in a position to be able to offer belly cargo flights so I believe that is definitely a good move by Cardiff as it can serve the whole of the South West not just Cardiff. CWL should continue to focus on doing things that BRS can't. It's slightly longer runway gives it the advantage for some longer routes and cargo ops.

The focus has been on building up the non passenger side to essentially balance the business with more of the airports revenue coming from the non passenger side.
One of the problems though is that I genuinely think Bristol believes in the long run it can attract ME3 long haul and be an airport that's more like Birmingham. Whether that's realistic i guess is down to opinion. Also I'd imagine they'd like the revenue from Cardiffs 850,000 passengers.

 

[Jerry]

This is what the departure board will look like for winter 2025/26 at the moment
In total there will be up to 58 weekly departures up 11 on winter 2024-25. 8 each day on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays & Fridays. 7 on Tuesdays, 9 on Sundays and 10 on Saturdays.
Monday
09.00 TUI Gran Canaria
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
10.45 TUI Tenerife
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
16.05 Loganair Edinburgh
16.40 Vueling Alicante
17.15 KLM Amsterdam
23.30 Ryanair Dublin
Tuesday
06.50 TUI Alicante
08.00 TUI Tenerife
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
16.05 Loganair Edinburgh (doesn't operate January and February)
16.45 Vueling Alicante
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
Wednesday
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
11.10 TUI Paphos (from 25/2/26)
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
14.00 Ryanair Tenerife
15.55 Ryanair Dublin
16.05 Loganair Edinburgh (doesn't operate January and February)
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
19.10 Ryanair Alicante
Thursday
09.00 TUI Gran Canaria (from 18/12/25)
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
10.30 TUI Lanzarote
10.30 Ryanair Dublin
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
20.15 Loganair Edinburgh
20.55 Vueling Malaga (6/12/25-6/1/26)
Friday
06.45 TUI Enfidha (from 6/3/26)
09.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
10.45 TUI Tenerife
16.05 Ryanair Alicante
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
19.45 Loganair Edinburgh
22.25 Ryanair Dublin
Saturday
06.15 TUI Alicante
07.00 TUI Salzburg (20/12/25-7/3/26)
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
13.30 TUI Fuerteventura (from 20/12/25)
15.20 TUI Chambery (from 20/12/25-14/3/26)
16.45 Vueling Alicante
17.10 Vueling Malaga (6/12/25-6/1/26)
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
23.45 Ryanair Dublin
Sunday
07.00 TUI Malaga
09.00 TUI Tenerife (from 21/12/25)
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
14.55 TUI Lanzarote
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
18.25 Ryanair Alicante
20.45 Loganair Edinburgh
21.20 Ryanair Dublin

 

[MrFenner]

This is what the departure board will look like for winter 2025/26 at the moment
In total there will be up to 58 weekly departures. 8 each day on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays & Fridays. 7 on Tuesdays, 9 on Sundays and 10 on Saturdays.
Monday
09.00 TUI Gran Canaria
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
10.45 TUI Tenerife
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
16.05 Loganair Edinburgh
16.40 Vueling Alicante
17.15 KLM Amsterdam
23.30 Ryanair Dublin
Tuesday
06.50 TUI Alicante
08.00 TUI Tenerife
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
16.05 Loganair Edinburgh (doesn't operate January and February)
16.45 Vueling Alicante
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
Wednesday
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
11.10 TUI Paphos (from 25/2/26)
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
14.00 Ryanair Tenerife
15.55 Ryanair Dublin
16.05 Loganair Edinburgh (doesn't operate January and February)
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
19.10 Ryanair Alicante
Thursday
09.00 TUI Gran Canaria (from 18/12/25)
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
10.30 TUI Lanzarote
10.30 Ryanair Dublin
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
20.15 Loganair Edinburgh
20.55 Vueling Malaga (6/12/25-6/1/26)
Friday
06.45 TUI Enfidha (from 6/3/26)
09.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
10.45 TUI Tenerife
16.05 Ryanair Alicante
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
19.45 Loganair Edinburgh
22.25 Ryanair Dublin
Saturday
06.15 TUI Alicante
07.00 TUI Salzburg (20/12/25-7/3/26)
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
13.30 TUI Fuerteventura (from 20/12/25)
15.20 TUI Chambery (from 20/12/25-14/3/26)
16.45 Vueling Alicante
17.10 Vueling Malaga (6/12/25-6/1/26)
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
23.45 Ryanair Dublin
Sunday
07.00 TUI Malaga
09.00 TUI Tenerife (from 21/12/25)
10.20 KLM Amsterdam
12.00 Aer Lingus Belfast City
14.55 TUI Lanzarote
17.25 KLM Amsterdam
18.25 Ryanair Alicante
20.45 Loganair Edinburgh
21.20 Ryanair Dublin

Those Ryanair timings to DUB are really something to behold!

 

[Jerry]

Those Ryanair timings to DUB are really something to behold!

Monday, Friday and Sunday are problematic especially Monday and Saturday where there's a very big gap between them and the last but one departure meaning departure staff have to be kept on and departures can't be closed for the day. I believe the airport are trying to get the times pulled forward but slots may be a problem at Dublin.

 

[Samdorob]

Those Ryanair timings to DUB are really something to behold!

We’ve seen a late night Saturday Dublin flight flop just two summers ago. I can’t imagine this one will do well. Hopefully the timings can be adjusted.