Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Jerry]

An article in Wales Online has said that the San Francisco chronicle has named Wales as one of it's top 10 destinations around the world for 2017. Wales is recommended for it's coastal paths and local food. Manchester is also on the list!
Hopefully it'll give Wales a tourism boost from California.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/one-americas-biggest-newspapers-named-12437736#rlabs=1%20rt$sitewide%20p$7

 

[Jerry]

An article in Aviation Wales also says that devolution of APD was raised during the passing of the Wales Bill through the House of Lords with many Lords saying that at least Long haul APD should be devolved. Also Welsh Minister Nick Bourne has said that APD will be revisited and it may be appropriate as Brexit approaches.

https://www.aviationwales.com/lords-back-air-passenger-duty-devolution/

 

[TheLocalYokel]

When (if?) the UK leaves the EU the APD picture could be completely redrawn.

Currently, the situation is thus:

Under EU State aid rules, Member States must not vary national tax rates in a way that is more favourable to individual regions, as to do so would be to provide a selective economic advantage to businesses operating in those regions.

Consequently, for the devolution of a tax power to be compliant with EU State aid rules it must meet the ‘Azores criteria’. Broadly, these criteria require that when tax powers are devolved within a Member State, the regional authority to which they are devolved must bear a sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy from central government.

Clearly the Welsh Government does bear that sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy and an authority such as the so-called Northern Powerhouse might well do so.

However, once outside the EU the UK government could, if it wished, be far more imaginative in the way it legislates APD. For example, it might vary APD rates around the country according to all sorts of criteria. I'm not in favour of that because the Law of Unintended Consequences invariably intrudes.

The UK has got itself into a mess. We have a quasi federal system with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland having a degree of autonomy yet the largest constituent, England, has none with, for example, MPs from the whole of the UK able to vote on purely English matters at Westminster (the so-called West Lothian Question) but English MPs have no say in the devolved parliaments in the rest of the UK.

Scotland was given additional tax-raising powers, including APD, as a desperate last throw of the dice to prevent a Yes vote in the independence referendum. Northern Ireland was allowed to charge short haul APD rates on long haul from there so it could compete with Dublin, specifically on the NYC route. It didn't work in the end because United has withdrawn its BFS-EWR route.

I've read the Aviation Wales website and it's not made clear how general the support was in the Lords for APD devolution to Wales. The quotes seem to be selective and come from Welsh peers or peers with Welsh connections. Some ingenuous comments were made such as “whole swathe of England would benefit from long-haul business in South Wales, something which Bristol Airport cannot provide". That presumes that BRS could never have long haul flights and anyway long haul APD is charged on flights from BRS via hubs such as AMS.

I can no longer take the Aviation Wales website seriously (I used to read it but no longer do because in my opinion it's far from being objective) when, for example, it talks about the BRS CEO 'deciding to throw his toys out of the pram' because he objects to APD devolution to Wales. If the situation was reversed I'm sure AW would be 100% supportive of the CWL MD if she (rightly in my view) objected to BRS getting an APD advantage. The AW website also indulges in childish banter such as, 'did we mention our runway is bigger than yours? - but hey that's life Mr Sinclair'.

Currently the UK government has decided not to devolve APD to Wales but they or a different administration might devolve the tax in the future. I could mount arguments for them not to do so and equally to do so.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

An article in Wales Online has said that the San Francisco chronicle has named Wales as one of it's top 10 destinations around the world for 2017. Wales is recommended for it's coastal paths and local food. Manchester is also on the list!
Hopefully it'll give Wales a tourism boost from California.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/one-americas-biggest-newspapers-named-12437736#rlabs=1%20rt$sitewide%20p$7

Not only is that good news for Wales in the sense that it could potentially lead to more American visitors, it's always worthwhile when it's pointed out to Americans that Wales is a separate country and not part of England. Too many Americans routinely interchange Britain with England.

The weakness of the pound, as pointed out in the newspaper article, is another incentive.

 

[ethanegcc]

Manchester is often seen as a gateway to Wales from many destinations, so hopefully it will benefit both airports. Wales is also one of the top 10 regions to visit by lonelyplanet in 2017.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Severn crossings tolls to be substantially reduced from next year

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/cars-t...om-next-year/story-30054158-detail/story.html

From 2018, when the Severn crossings return to public ownership, toll charges will be reduced.

Cars will pay £3 instead of the current £6.70; small buses and vans will also pay £3 instead of £13.40; and lorries and coaches will pay £10, rather than £20.

Barriers will be removed so the cost will be split between journeys in and out of Wales meaning a one-way journey will cost £1.50 for cars.

It's not made clear how the tolls will be collected when the barriers are removed.

This ought to benefit South Wales to a considerable degree making the area more competitive for businesses to start up or re-locate. In theory it should also be good for CWL with people able to drive there from England paying a reduced toll although the same will apply to people living in Wales travelling to BRS.

I think the major benefit will be to business in South Wales which in turn should help the capital's airport.

 

[Jerry]

Not only is that good news for Wales in the sense that it could potentially lead to more American visitors, it's always worthwhile when it's pointed out to Americans that Wales is a separate country and not part of England. Too many Americans routinely interchange Britain with England.

The weakness of the pound, as pointed out in the newspaper article, is another incentive.

Yes Wales does always suffer from lack of recognition of being separate from England whereas Scotland and Ireland don't seem to have that problem. Hopefully as well the article will boost inbound tourism as well. California is one of the richest places in the world but is also the people of California are more likely to travel abroad than say someone from Alabama.

 

[Jerry]

When (if?) the UK leaves the EU the APD picture could be completely redrawn.

Currently, the situation is thus:

Under EU State aid rules, Member States must not vary national tax rates in a way that is more favourable to individual regions, as to do so would be to provide a selective economic advantage to businesses operating in those regions.

Consequently, for the devolution of a tax power to be compliant with EU State aid rules it must meet the ‘Azores criteria’. Broadly, these criteria require that when tax powers are devolved within a Member State, the regional authority to which they are devolved must bear a sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy from central government.

Clearly the Welsh Government does bear that sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy and an authority such as the so-called Northern Powerhouse might well do so.

However, once outside the EU the UK government could, if it wished, be far more imaginative in the way it legislates APD. For example, it might vary APD rates around the country according to all sorts of criteria. I'm not in favour of that because the Law of Unintended Consequences invariably intrudes.

The UK has got itself into a mess. We have a quasi federal system with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland having a degree of autonomy yet the largest constituent, England, has none with, for example, MPs from the whole of the UK able to vote on purely English matters at Westminster (the so-called West Lothian Question) but English MPs have no say in the devolved parliaments in the rest of the UK.

Scotland was given additional tax-raising powers, including APD, as a desperate last throw of the dice to prevent a Yes vote in the independence referendum. Northern Ireland was allowed to charge short haul APD rates on long haul from there so it could compete with Dublin, specifically on the NYC route. It didn't work in the end because United has withdrawn its BFS-EWR route.

I've read the Aviation Wales website and it's not made clear how general the support was in the Lords for APD devolution to Wales. The quotes seem to be selective and come from Welsh peers or peers with Welsh connections. Some ingenuous comments were made such as “whole swathe of England would benefit from long-haul business in South Wales, something which Bristol Airport cannot provide". That presumes that BRS could never have long haul flights and anyway long haul APD is charged on flights from BRS via hubs such as AMS.

I can no longer take the Aviation Wales website seriously (I used to read it but no longer do because in my opinion it's far from being objective) when, for example, it talks about the BRS CEO 'deciding to throw his toys out of the pram' because he objects to APD devolution to Wales. If the situation was reversed I'm sure AW would be 100% supportive of the CWL MD if she (rightly in my view) objected to BRS getting an APD advantage. The AW website also indulges in childish banter such as, 'did we mention our runway is bigger than yours? - but hey that's life Mr Sinclair'.

Currently the UK government has decided not to devolve APD to Wales but they or a different administration might devolve the tax in the future. I could mount arguments for them not to do so and equally to do so.

I think with APD many people know short haul won't get devolved but can't understand why long haul isn't. BRS doesn't have a big long haul network so it won't really effect it much and I also believe that politically many feel that Wales isn't treated equally compared to Northern Ireland and Scotland and that devolution of long haul APD would seem to be treating Wales more equally.
I do wonder if long haul APD was devolved in what real difference it would make for CWL? I doubt very much a transatlantic carrier would turn up. Maybe there might be some more Orlando flights from Thomas Cook but I'd be surprised if Thomson started them again. Is there enough passengers travelling eastbound from the south Wales area to attract an ME3?

 

[Jerry]

Severn crossings tolls to be substantially reduced from next year

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/cars-t...om-next-year/story-30054158-detail/story.html

From 2018, when the Severn crossings return to public ownership, toll charges will be reduced.

Cars will pay £3 instead of the current £6.70; small buses and vans will also pay £3 instead of £13.40; and lorries and coaches will pay £10, rather than £20.

Barriers will be removed so the cost will be split between journeys in and out of Wales meaning a one-way journey will cost £1.50 for cars.

It's not made clear how the tolls will be collected when the barriers are removed.

This ought to benefit South Wales to a considerable degree making the area more competitive for businesses to start up or re-locate. In theory it should also be good for CWL with people able to drive there from England paying a reduced toll although the same will apply to people living in Wales travelling to BRS.

I think the major benefit will be to business in South Wales which in turn should help the capital's airport.

It's great they are finally coming down! Personally I believe they have held back part of the south Wales economy especially in logistics as their might have been more DCs built in the area than currently are and some might not have moved. I believe they will look at installing an ANPR system like they have for the Dartford tolls. Not sure it'll encourage people from the South West to use CWL though. Might encourage them to visit Wales more.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Jerry said:
I think with APD many people know short haul won't get devolved but can't understand why long haul isn't. BRS doesn't have a big long haul network so it won't really effect it much and I also believe that politically many feel that Wales isn't treated equally compared to Northern Ireland and Scotland and that devolution of long haul APD would seem to be treating Wales more equally.
I do wonder if long haul APD was devolved in what real difference it would make for CWL? I doubt very much a transatlantic carrier would turn up. Maybe there might be some more Orlando flights from Thomas Cook but I'd be surprised if Thomson started them again. Is there enough passengers travelling eastbound from the south Wales area to attract an ME3?

The BRS management is concerned that even if only long haul APD was devolved to Wales it would almost certainly stop any chance they might have of getting a NYC and ME route. The other point that I made is that long haul APD is payable on trips from BRS via hubs such as AMS. A more benign APD regime in Wales might have a noticeable impact on the KLM operation at BRS as well as perhaps seeing the likes of Aer Lingus and LH (bmir codeshare) look at their situation at BRS.

You might be right in your comment about a nil APD long rate not being enough to attract a scheduled transatlantic carrier. As previously noted it didn't save the Belfast Int-Newark route. But that's at the moment with all the Brexit uncertainty. Two or three years down the line Brexit ramifications might become clearer and airlines might be looking to expand their UK transatlantic services.

There is also the point that the CWL owners would be in the incredibly advantageous position of being able to set their own APD rates.

I doubt that either BRS or CWL (irrespective of APD rates) will ever become major long haul scheduled airports so in that sense the argument is to an extent an academic one but, to repeat myself, hub long haul is a different matter and BRS could (probably would) find itself disadvantaged. There would also be the worry that if long haul APD is devolved the door would be open and there would be persistent calls for all APD to be devolved. Now that would harm BRS even if not to the degree their management has suggested.

I take the point that because NI and Scotland have (will have) APD powers then so should Wales. It remains to be seen what effect Scotland's APD changes will have on northern English airports (they want to reduce APD to nil but can only go half way to that initially because it will cost too much - Wales, even though it has a lower budget, raises relatively little APD so could much more easily absorb the loss of the tax amount from its Westminster block grant.

If it's unfair on Wales, which it is, it's also unfair on England which doesn't have its own government and is under the yoke of Westminster with the possibility of a chancellor representing a Welsh or Scottish constituency (as Brown and Darling did) setting English APD rates if the other UK countries have all had the setting of this tax devolved to them, not to mention MPs from all over the UK having a vote on it.

Jerry said:
It's great they are finally coming down! Personally I believe they have held back part of the south Wales economy especially in logistics as their might have been more DCs built in the area than currently are and some might not have moved. I believe they will look at installing an ANPR system like they have for the Dartford tolls. Not sure it'll encourage people from the South West to use CWL though. Might encourage them to visit Wales more.

I don't think there is any doubt that the Welsh economy has been adversely affected by the Severn crossing charges. You only have to see the massive areas of warehousing and distribution centres at Avonmouth/Severnside next to the motorways to see what opportunities there have been and will be. Part of this is down to the proximity of the Bristol Port Company docks but the motorways also play a part. There is some development on the Welsh side next to the motorway near Chepstow and the tolls reduction ought to see this and similar areas expand.

Something that might be less welcome to potential house buyers is that the reduced tolls will lead to a rise in house prices. Living in south-east Wales and working in Bristol will become even more attractive. Bristol house prices are sky high and only last week one of the Gwent estate agents was quoted in the local Bristol paper saying that recently 80% of enquiries for houses on sale in his area have come from people living in the Bristol area.

CWL will ultimately benefit if the lower tolls help Welsh business which in time they are bound to.

 

[superking]

I notice the tolls are to be reduced which should have been done some time ago. The news report was saying that once reduced toll to charge both ways, which at the moment only charged going into wales.asda at chepstowe is on the cards to be moved over to avonmouth as they have many problems with the bridge being shut for what ever reason. asda been looking at ground in avonmouth to build and open a new adc.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I notice the tolls are to be reduced which should have been done some time ago. The news report was saying that once reduced toll to charge both ways, which at the moment only charged going into wales.asda at chepstowe is on the cards to be moved over to avonmouth as they have many problems with the bridge being shut for what ever reason. asda been looking at ground in avonmouth to build and open a new adc.

I think the plan is to have number plate recognition cameras and do away with the physical toll booths. Quite how it will operate I don't know: along the lines of the London congestion charge I would imagine.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Reports now suggest that the government is considering making the Severn crossings free between 2200 and 0600 each night.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/8203-m...t-be-charged/story-30059203-detail/story.html

 

[Jerry]

Sounds like they are going to implement the same system as the Dartford crossing in Kent.

I notice the tolls are to be reduced which should have been done some time ago. The news report was saying that once reduced toll to charge both ways, which at the moment only charged going into wales.asda at chepstowe is on the cards to be moved over to avonmouth as they have many problems with the bridge being shut for what ever reason. asda been looking at ground in avonmouth to build and open a new adc.

I wouldn't be surprised if eventually Tesco Magor moves over as well. For Asda the old bridge closes too much and for both only a third of their stores are in Wales.

 

[superking]

I used to drive trucks for asda out of poirtbury,but now and again go over to Chepstow to work from there. If they did move a lot of good mates from wales and it would affect them. Its not good when firms move away as it does affect the airport in many ways.The more firms that move to wales it helps the airport and shows other firms that its good there,its the same as the airpoirt the more airlines it can get in and look after the ones already there it makes ppl sit up and see whats going on, A and they think we will have some of that.

 

[Jerry]

I used to drive trucks for asda out of poirtbury,but now and again go over to Chepstow to work from there. If they did move a lot of good mates from wales and it would affect them. Its not good when firms move away as it does affect the airport in many ways.The more firms that move to wales it helps the airport and shows other firms that its good there,its the same as the airpoirt the more airlines it can get in and look after the ones already there it makes ppl sit up and see whats going on, A and they think we will have some of that.

Hopefully they won't and will build a new depot in Wales. I know tesco chilled paid the bridge tolls for its welsh staff for a few years but I think that's stopped now. Only new supermarket dc that's been built lately in south Wales is the Aldi dc in Cardiff which has and will create a lot of new jobs.

 

[Jerry]

I read the Cardiff airport update for 2016 today so I'm going to post a few highlights that I think is important. Its It's a downloadable PDF so just Google it and it'll come up.

Growth
Passenger numbers have grown to 1.3 million with 13 consecutive months of growth and 28% growth over the rolling year which has been achieved by enhancing capacity and driving volume based on existing market demands.
Developing year round services for core business and 'visiting family and friends' markets delivering economic value to Wales such as Cork Düsseldorf Glasgow Munich Milan and Paris.
Growing LCC capacity on key sun routes like Tenerife Malaga Palma and Faro.
Developing bespoke market options like Caribbean and Dubai cruise flights Orlando long haul flights and Italian tour charters.
Supporting major events like the Rugby world cup and Champions league final.

The potential for growth.
There's a map of South Wales Bristol and Gloucestershire which shows the potential catchment area.
Within 60 minutes of driving from Cardiff airport there is 1.8 million people 90 minutes 4.6 million people and 120 minutes 6 million people. So looks like they are thinking beyond the South Wales area.
It goes on to state that over 4 million passengers from South Wales took flights in 2015 and a third used Cardiff airport and that we are continuing to grow our share of the market. It then lists the top 10 countries traveled to which can be seen also as potential markets.
Spain 900,000
UK 408,000
USA 255,000
Ireland 216,000
France 186,000
Italy 155,000
Turkey 154,000
Greece 152,000
Germany 143,000
Portugal 116,000
Netherlands 106,000
Australia 83,000
UAE 76,000
Cyprus 71,000
Switzerland 58,000

Visitors using Cardiff airport comprised 1in 4 passengers which by my calculation is 325,000.
28% 91,000 from Ireland
13% 42,250 from Spain
12% 39,000 from France
8% 26,000 from the USA
6% 19500 from Germany
6% 19500 from the Netherlands
3% 9759 from Australia
3% 9759 from Italy
2% 6500 from Canada
2% 6500 from Finland
2% 6500 from India
1% 3250 from UAE
1% 3250 from China
1% 3250 from Malaysia
1% 3250 from New Zealand
12% 39000 from other countries.
The percentages are from the article and I worked out the rough numbers.

The future.
We are focussed on developing a sustainable airport business which we will achieve in the following ways:
Increasing capacity with incumbent carriers
Developing long haul flight opportunities
Diversifying the business
Promoting Wales as a market to do business
Focusing on inbound tourism opportunities
Stimulating the local economy
Working with Welsh stakeholders in the development of regional and national plans Cardiff city region and strategic transport plans
Continuing to lobby on the devolution of Air Passenger Duty to Wales
Creating contagious confidence in the market
To ensure Cardiff becomes THE airport of choice for people traveling to and from Wales.

https://www.cardiff-airport.com>uploads

 

[TheLocalYokel]

CWL has definitely got its act together since it was taken into the public sector and particularly since the new chairman took office in terms of promoting itself. The update is certainly a glossy sales pitch. Under the previous ownership there was no attempt to put the airport in the national, international spotlight.

if the city region does grow in the years ahead as the update suggests it will clearly bring extremely positive benefits to the airport.

 

[Jerry]

CWL has definitely got its act together since it was taken into the public sector and particularly since the new chairman took office in terms of promoting itself. The update is certainly a glossy sales pitch. Under the previous ownership there was no attempt to put the airport in the national, international spotlight.

if the city region does grow in the years ahead as the update suggests it will clearly bring extremely positive benefits to the airport.

Yes I know he wasnt liked by everyone when he was at the WRU but it is now in a much stronger position financially now than before Roger Lewis's time in charge so I do believe the airport is in good hands between him and Deborah Barber.

One thing I found positive in it was that the report seemed practical. When it mentioned long haul it was more geared to what works from Cardiff airport leisure long haul like Orlando and cruise flights. And I found some of the inbound tourist passenger numbers encouraging for potential new markets and airlines and the potential for growth.

 

[Jerry]

Nice little bit for exposure today for Wales in the US as the Vince Lombardi trophy (probably a copy) was in Cardiff today promoting the Super Bowl and was photographed in Cardiff castle with keep in the background.