Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Coathanger16]

It would appear Birmingham went with a "begging bowl" to central government and to Europe for funding. So why shouldn't Leeds or other cities for that matter?

I never said cities shouldn't be going to central government with a begging bowl. That's where they're going to get the largest amount of funding so of course they should.

You said you wanted your taxes to only be spent in Leeds and nowhere else.

Funding from central government means either tax payers money from across the country or those taxes being used to pay back borrowing.

If you want your taxes to only be spent in Leeds, why should my taxes (via central government) be spent in Leeds as well?

As long as the area I live in receives some of the benefit of the tax I pay, I don't care where the rest of it gets spent as long as it improves that area.

See what I did there? An admittedly feeble attempt to bring the discussion back to LBA. Really interesting and well written posts about HS2 and its merits, - but seemingly not in the correct thread?

It's a transport and infrastructure thread, and threads to drift from relevant topics from time to time. It happens.

In the interest of getting things back on track I shall leave this discussion there.

 

[Len Fish]

If only there were some tram tracks in Leeds to get back on track on!

 

[dmrodgers]

If only there were some tram tracks in Leeds to get back on track on!

Plenty of tram tracks left in Leeds, unfortunately they are all under the road surfaces. Our useless elected WY Mayor will only dig the roads up to put more cycle lanes in which nobody uses and causes more traffic chaos all over the Region.

 

[Aviador]

Plenty of tram tracks left in Leeds, unfortunately they are all under the road surfaces. Our useless elected WY Mayor will only dig the roads up to put more cycle lanes in which nobody uses and causes more traffic chaos all over the Region.

I do think we would be better off spending the money used to build cycle lanes on other things. Lets be honest, the vast majority of cyclists are cycling for pleasure. Most cyclists are not going between home and work.

 

[White Heather]

I do think we would be better off spending the money used to build cycle lanes on other things. Lets be honest, the vast majority of cyclists are cycling for pleasure. Most cyclists are not going between home and work.

Any official survey to monitor the urban use of the newly constructed cycle lanes would show there are nowhere near enough users to warrant the huge expense and, disruption to other road users, particularly private cars . So squeezing all these cars into a single lane where there used to be two causes congestion and increases emissions ;at least until such time as the cars no longer have an engine that creates such emissions - and that's another story!

I can't see any council doing such a survey and publishing the results as it will demonstrate perfectly the money wasted by councils all across the country. It may work in some smaller towns and cities, particularly in flat areas, but not here. As stated, most cyclists are doing it for pleasure as I find out every time I drive to Ilkley! Wharfedale is cycling Mecca!

 

[Pat]

Out of interest, do cyclists use the cycle lanes or like in Lincoln they prefer to use the road? Slowing the traffic down even more.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Out of interest, do cyclists use the cycle lanes or like in Lincoln they prefer to use the road? Slowing the traffic down even more.

Its because councils dont sweep them- thryre full of debrus, including glass.

 

[The Pole]

I have seen them sweeping the cycle lanes on Kirkstall Road in Leeds A65, a small machine like one they use on pavements does it. I was surprised, as it was squashing the bollards flat and then they popped straight back up behind!

 

[Finger66]

All these cycle lanes are the biggest load of bollards going. At least I think I have the right word in there!!!!

 

[White Heather]

Its because councils dont sweep them- thryre full of debrus, including glass.

When I was still commuting few, if any used the cycle lanes, preferring to block the inside of two traffic lanes, which then led to irate commuters all pulling into the outer lane, and causing tailbacks behind. At traffic lights they'd pull in front of the traffic again, causing further hold ups and quite a few incidents. Some didn't even bother to stop at red lights and rode straight through.

 

[Aviador]

...best we don't talk about eclectic scooters then!

 

[White Heather]

...best we don't talk about eclectic scooters then!

Please dont. My stress levels are already high enough ...

 

[The Pole]

I was a road cyclist for many years and stopped as so many friends in the club were knocked off by to many motorists in a rush. Also cyclist need to be smart and anticipate drivers actions which some don't do.
One reason they stay out in front of traffic is to be seen!
I've said it before and will say again, driving standards are shocking.
Yes there are some cyclist that take the piss and have had words with some and also had words with so called professional drivers! All because they need to get there 5 seconds quicker!

 

[White Heather]

You are right. I have a bike, (which I no longer ride) and passed my cycling proficiency test decades ago in the mid 60s. And I've been driving since 1974.

The standard of driving is often very poor these days. Sadly though, the standard of cycling can be equally poor at times. It's obvious that just like some drivers, there are cyclists who haven't a clue about the rules of the road, others do but disregard them, whilst others seemed determined to claim their priority on the road at every opportunity despite the fact they are causing one almighty hold up. Cycling at 5mph on a winding country road whilst chatting, 3 abreast, is unacceptable but it happens.

All road users need to show consideration to other road users. And that includes walkers where there's no footpath. I've lost count of how many lunatic cyclists have passed me from behind at high speed on narrow lanes with no warning - most dont even have a bell these days. Conversely, most vehicle drivers tend to slow right down and express thanks when we move aside for them.

Give and take and politeness is all it takes.

Anyway, back to LBA matters .......

 

[LBAYORKIE]

You are right. I have a bike, (which I no longer ride) and passed my cycling proficiency test decades ago in the mid 60s. And I've been driving since 1974.

The standard of driving is often very poor these days. Sadly though, the standard of cycling can be equally poor at times. It's obvious that just like some drivers, there are cyclists who haven't a clue about the rules of the road, others do but disregard them, whilst others seemed determined to claim their priority on the road at every opportunity despite the fact they are causing one almighty hold up. Cycling at 5mph on a winding country road whilst chatting, 3 abreast, is unacceptable but it happens.

All road users need to show consideration to other road users. And that includes walkers where there's no footpath. I've lost count of how many lunatic cyclists have passed me from behind at high speed on narrow lanes with no warning - most dont even have a bell these days. Conversely, most vehicle drivers tend to slow right down and express thanks when we move aside for them.

Give and take and politeness is all it takes.

Anyway, back to LBA matters .......

It all comes back to a lack of police enforcement.

 

[leedslad]

A few things here:

Yes it's only a marginal time saving, but it's still an improvement over now.

However the big benefit, and again this is where people generally only look at their own bubble and also where HS2 has been criminally mis-sold, is the capacity that would be released by HS2.

The current fast LNER trains from London to Leeds calls at 5 or 6 stations including King's Cross and Leeds. Along the East Coast Mainline between London and Leeds, there are no less than 35 stations, the vast majority of which those fast trains pass straight through. They are served, but those services have to work around the fast intercity trains.

When you move those fast trains over to HS2, either on an Eastern branch or via Manchester, that releases a huge amount of capacity on the existing line for new and improved services.

Between Wakefield and Leeds there is just one station on the ECML at Outwood. Removing those fast trains would free up room on the existing network providing capacity to add new stations in the South of Leeds that currently wouldn't be worthwhile as there isn't the capacity in the network to call at those new stations. Alternatively if it proved better, without needing to accommodate fast intercity trains, that line could be reworked into a light rail/tram line that runs on the existing rails until the edge of Leeds city centre, then goes onto a regular tram line through the city centre.

Combining HS2 and Trans-Pennine services into a single new build high speed line between Leeds and Manchester has a far better business case than that line plus another high speed line coming into Leeds from South Yorkshire & the East Midlands.

Manchester wants that Trans-Pennine Link. Leeds wants that Trans-Pennine Link. Liverpool, Sheffield, Hull and Newcastle also all want it. Get that built first, get the fast journey times between Leeds and Manchester (and other Northern cities that would use it), release capacity on the existing network for new and improved services, and then go for the HS2 eastern branch that improves journey times to Leeds.

HS3/NPR would have used part of HS2 South of Manchester. Now Manchester has lost HS2, the cost of that section would have to be included in the cost of HS3/NPR making that scheme more expensive and worsening its business case and BCR. That has an impact on Leeds, Liverpool and the rest of the North, so no, Manchester losing HS2 is not good for Leeds.

Liverpool is "happy" Phase 2 has been cancelled as Manchester would have had a far quicker journey time to London than Liverpool would (5 mins difference now vs 20 mins difference after HS2 Phase 2). They view that as falling behind despite them actually getting a faster journey time to London than now.

Leeds is "happy" Phase 2 to Manchester has been cancelled.

Westminster sees this infighting and glee from Northern cities when another Northern city loses out. Meanwhile the whole of London and the Home Counties generally agree on infrastructure. What is good for one part of London is good for another. That is what the rest of the country needs to do as well. We need to stop comparing Leeds to Manchester and Liverpool to Manchester and start comparing the whole of the North to London.

If you want to compete, pit HS3/NPR against Crossrail 2. At the moment I'd place money on Crossrail 2 being built (or at least starting construction) before HS2 goes North of Birmingham or HS3/NPR starts.

You really think they'd have built a HS2 extension on a brand new dedicated line as you describe?

 

[LBA4EVER]

A nice little video i found on youtube, not linked directly to LBA but highlights the non existent transport system in leeds..

 

[JRP]

A nice little video i found on youtube, not linked directly to LBA but highlights the non existent transport system in leeds..

I Dockland type railway would be great for Leeds, but I think we should do something different, I think the tram will not work as there is not many places where you could segregate it from the roads without causing more chaos on are already chaotic roads, also whatever is built needs to serve areas which currently don’t have a railway line, places like Roundhay Middleton etc, I don’t see the point of it running to same locations as the railways

 

[HX3]

Lots of European and American cities are looking at developing urban cable cars as part of urban integrated transport. A Teleferico type link could work in West Yorkshire linking hilly areas to tram/tram train hubs on the main arterial routes. They also support tourism as well as commuting, so could assist as part of a fully linked system.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Lots of European and American cities are looking at developing urban cable cars as part of urban integrated transport. A Teleferico type link could work in West Yorkshire linking hilly areas to tram/tram train hubs on the main arterial routes. They also support tourism as well as commuting, so could assist as part of a fully linked system.

Perhaps leeds should be unique/think out the box and construct something totally different so we are ahead of the competition!