Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Bigman]

Here we go again with yet another Leeds v Manchester topic. If we are talking about National Express, let's not just talk about Manchester and Liverpool, but look at the wider picture.

It amazes me that the 240 service that comes from Gatwick, Heathrow and East Midlands doesn't go the extra 9 miles from Leeds to LBA. After all it is portrayed as an airlink.

I also don't see why some of the Leeds-Newcastle coaches could not route via LBA, Harrogate and Ripon.

And then, what about a Leeds-LBA-Otley-Ilkley-Skipton-Lancaster-Glasgow route as a possibility?

Lots ot potential if someone at National express ever got their thinking heads on.

 

[User0001]

Here we go again with yet another Leeds v Manchester topic

Its got nothing to do with Leeds v Manchester?!?!

Liverpool and Manchester have only been mentioned because its where the coach stops, it would be a bit hard to talk about it if you cant mention it, unless you substitute Manchester with city X, and Liverpool with city Y, but then that just makes it confusing.

 

[Aviador]

I've actually seen National Express buses pass the airport along the A65 and yet they never call in at LBA, how silly. In fairness, the local bus services are equally ridiculous. Even when First had the airport contract they never went above and beyond to provide an exceptional service. Just one of many examples is the 97 bus which operates to within half a mile of the airport terminal and yet it never made the short hop to the terminal to offer passengers an alternative route to Leeds. The new company is far from perfect and to be honest First was much better, but they could have done a lot more to gain respectability.

 

[lbaspotter]

I've actually seen National Express buses pass the airport along the A65 and yet they never call in at LBA, how silly. In fairness, the local bus services are equally ridiculous. Even when First had the airport contract they never went above and beyond to provide an exceptional service. Just one of many examples is the 97 bus which operates to within half a mile of the airport terminal and yet it never made the short hop to the terminal to offer passengers an alternative route to Leeds. The new company is far from perfect and to be honest First was much better, but they could have done a lot more to gain respectability.

Well I actually think the current set up by Centrebus is a lot better than anything First Leeds and Bradford had offered in the past. At least there buses are branded up and are alot easy to identify. Firstbus were more interested in the profit they made and not about passengers as is the case with most off the UK operations.

Look at the old buses First Bradford use to employ on the 737 service for example while the Solo's on the 747 broke down more times than they should have been in service.

First Leeds did use there newer single deck Volvo Wright Eclipses on the 757 Leeds route which at first if I remember correctly were branded up. But for some reason they seem to lose there branding after a couple of years. Also the 757 service should have been upgraded to larger double deck vehicles while First had the tender. They were never interested in having a half hourly service on a Sunday for some reason, Yeah the buses use to be full and the last Journey on a Sunday was at 19:30. I guess it was down to the route not been commercially viable. But that has now been ratified since Centrebus won the airport bus route tenders.

It's also worth pointing out that National Express do currently offer connections to Leeds/Bradford Airport using Centrebuses 757 service to Leeds Bus & Coach station. So I don't think a coach service would work as they just wouldn't be enough passengers for a company to make it profitable service, Hence the reason as to why they are offering connections via the existing bus service. But that's my own opinion...

 

[Bigman]

I never knew that there were connection arrangements using the 757. Not seen it advertised anywhere, which would be useful.

Digressing totally, on Sunday afetrnoon a woman asked our 737 bus driver when the next Leeds bus was and would this get her to the station in time to catch a 17:10 train? Answer...no, so I suggested she got a taxi to make sure she got there on time. I was quite surprised when I asked her where she was travelling to and she said Aberystwyth via Birmingham. She came off a Ryanair flight by the way.

 

[cmj]

I've actually seen National Express buses pass the airport along the A65 and yet they never call in at LBA, how silly. In fairness, the local bus services are equally ridiculous. Even when First had the airport contract they never went above and beyond to provide an exceptional service. Just one of many examples is the 97 bus which operates to within half a mile of the airport terminal and yet it never made the short hop to the terminal to offer passengers an alternative route to Leeds. The new company is far from perfect and to be honest First was much better, but they could have done a lot more to gain respectability.

The 97 also runs via Otley Road and Headingley, there must be a market for students to get to LBA. I'd use it in preference to a taxi if I could.

 

[lbaspotter]

Well I can safely say that Firstbus would not even think about running the local 97 service via the Airport. That’s unless they received a subsidy from either Metro or the Airport to do so.

I understand First did look into starting possible Airlink service running Leeds to Airport route via The University - Headingley - Horsforth Rail Station - Trinity & All Saints after they lost access to the airport when running there commercial service 757 against Centrebus last year.

But such was the fall out between the several parties involved, I Really don't think you'll see any corporate Firstbus vehicles in the airport or on its grounds until at least after the next round of tendering which is about 2 years from now.

 

[Aviador]

Today the government has announced new stations are going to be built at both Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge. The Apperley Bridge one is particularly interesting in the fact that it's drive time is possibly quicker that the current Horsforth and Guiseley stations. Also, the new station at Kirkstall Forge will potentially make Headingley and Horsforth stations slightly less congested.

 

[wawkrk]

With a promise to spend 30billion on roads,rail,airports etc. I wonder if Bridgpoint could get a slice of that. Maybe even a runway extension to move more traffic away from the south.
In reality though, most of it will go to the south I suppose.

 

[Aviador]

With a promise to spend 30billion on roads,rail,airports etc. I wonder if Bridgpoint could get a slice of that. Maybe even a runway extension to move more traffic away from the south.
In reality though, most of it will go to the south I suppose.

Spot on there wawkrk.

After following the speech by the Chancellor of Exchequer it would seem the majority of the money is to be spent in the South East (just for a change). Nothing we're not used to up here in the North I guess. Sheffield will be getting two extra trams (big deal), Leeds and West Yorkshire are going to be getting the use of our motorway hard shoulders to drive on (aren't we lucky), and two new stations, (but no new rolling stock). So basically, bugger all as usual.

 

[White Heather]

On top of that, even the announcement yesterday that the TransPennine routes are to be electrified, was tainted, in that when they do, the recently introduced diesel units are to be replaced by old London rolling stock that is over 20 years old - available to us up North of course because they are getting brand new replacements down there.

 

[Bigman]

Give me a 4 car EMU over a 3 car sardine tin any day!!

 

[White Heather]

Latest update on the possible electrification of the Harrogate line and provision of an airport station, following today's consultative meeting.

Much has been happening, with meetings taking place with all local councils, MP's and the Transport Minister. All councils in the area, all MP's and councillors are backing the scheme, whilst Network Rail has confirmed it is viable. It has now been agreed that the electrification could be either via a 3rd rail system, or the usual overhead power system, which would be more expensive but better in that it allows direct Harrogate to London trains to be electrified rather than relying on the Intercity 125 trains only. However, those trying to push this said today that either scheme would do and it would depend largely on what rolling stock becomes available.

The next stage is to get the money together to do detailed planning, firm up costs and then attempt to get the scheme added onto the Governments list. It was suggested that it may be possible to get it bolted on to the Trans Pennine Electrification scheme.

It sounded optimistic to me, but the literature handed out did say that delivery within 5 years is feasible although I suspect that is based on the 3rd rail system.

 

[Galaxy]

Overhead would be the better option, but not on the cheap like the Leeds - Skipton line, which cannot take the larger electric inter city trains as they take all the juice! I don't like the idea of third rail, I think of those poor foxes, badgers and pet cats!

 

[Bigman]

It is a lot easier to third rail a 2 mile long tunnel than it is to overhead wire it, and no doubt a damn sight cheaper too. In this day and age when units can operate off both overhead and third rail, I don't see this being much of an issue.

Digressing slightly, this might also be an option to look at on the Transpennine. Out of 42 miles of route from Manchester Victoria to Leeds, 6 miles are in tunnels.

 

[White Heather]

Overhead would be the better option, but not on the cheap like the Leeds - Skipton line, which cannot take the larger electric inter city trains as they take all the juice! I don't like the idea of third rail, I think of those poor foxes, badgers and pet cats!

Hi Galaxy

I think they have been thinking about the foxes, cats, dogs, children (!) etc already, because if they do use a third rail system it will not be like on the London Underground or Southern Region, but will be raised up, upside down (so the pick up shoes run underneath the rail, not on top) and it will be covered on top so you can't fall on the live rail or stand on it. If you are determined to kill yourself though, I suppose there will be a way to get to the live rail from underneath, but you would have to do it deliberately.

I agree with Bigman though - putting an overhead system through the Bramhope tunnel will be a pain, and an expensive one at that. The overhead gantries and wires would also look awful over the Wharfedale, Crimple and Knaresborough viaducts, so on environmental grounds, I would prefer a 3rd rail system as originally intended.

 

[Galaxy]

That would make sense then, presumably the raised third rail would not interfere with diesel traffic on the line, as I understand electrification is only as far as Harrogate?

 

[whoshotjimmi]

The third rail option is ludicrous. The short term costs of overhead wires in the bramhope tunnel would be totally overshadowed by the long term costs of a non standard 3rd rail system. It doesn't make sense at all.

 

[White Heather]

So I guess that all these people who are putting this together, including Network Rail, dont' know what they are doing then? If what you say is right whoshotjimmi, how come the entire Southern Region operated for many years using a 3rd rail system, long before overhead systems came into being? At least with the 3rd rail system they are talking about, the service isn't going to grind to a halt every time there are gale force winds.

I know nothing about rail systems, but the people putting this plan together do seem to know what they are doing. Frankly, I don't care if the train is powered by clockwork as long as we get a station serving LBA.

 

[ls27]

I was browsing though a railway magazine and came across this answer in a Parliamentary Answer by Ms Villiers (Secretary of State for Transport) It was initially about the conversion of the third rail system in the south east to overhead wiring.
'research concluded that an overhead system would deliver a range of benifits. These include lower running costs, greater resilience to snow and ice, increased train performance and the capacity to run more services'