Leeds Bradford: Airport Road, Rail & Access Issues

[lbaspotter]

Not good news to report as LBA - Harrogate bus service my be lost from April 2011.

North Yorkshire County Council have listed a huge number of proposed service cuts from April next year which includes the complete withdrawal of the Harrogate to Leeds/Bradford Airport 767 bus service.

See PDF here http://www.northyorkstravel.info/pdf/bus_reduction.pdf

Now I wonder if LBIA/Bridgepoint will have to step in here and fund the service by thereselfs as it is a condition of their planning permission for the terminal buling that extensive bus services are provided to the airport???

 

[Aviador]

Nobody ever seems to use the Harrogate bus since the new company took over. It will be a shame if it goes though.

 

[News Guru]

[textarea]Arthington station could be reopened

Athington could have “the first eco-friendly train station in West Yorkshire” if enough people get behind a proposal by Pool Parish Council.

The council is asking residents for their thoughts on a scheme that would see the station, closed since 1965, re-opened at its previous, original site south of Arthington Lane.

Pool Parish Councillor Steve Brady believes the project, linked to an initiative to create an off-road cycle and walking route on the old line from Arthington to Pool and Otley, would create an environmentally sustainable station.

Pool Parish Council has sent a questionnaire to householders, while Coun Brady is arranging a meeting with West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive, Metro.

Arthington Parish Council, however, has already raised concerns about how adequate parking could be provided.

Coun Brady said: “Parking is a big issue, but that’s why we’re looking at this cycle and walking track which would run to Otley in one direction and up to Harewood in the other. That would reduce the required number of parking spaces and not only help people get to Arthington without using a car, but give the whole area a tourism boost.

“I’ve spoken to Network Rail and there isn’t a private ownership issue with the site we’re looking at, opposite the Wharfedale Inn.”

In his letter, Coun Brady said: “Pool is a difficult place to get to or leave without the use of a motor vehicle. The bus service to Leeds usually requires a change and can take well over an hour. So it is no surprise most of us use our cars – because we have little choice.

“As Leeds Bradford Airport continues to expand, traffic through the village will increase and things can only get worse. This proposal would offset that situation and have a direct benefit to us all.

“Our quality of life needs to improve and our time spent travelling has to be reduced. Our reliance on the car can change in favour of something much more environmentally friendly.

“A short walk or cycle to the station followed by an 18-minute train journey to Leeds or Harrogate would put Pool back on the ‘best places to live’ list.”

Coun Brady acknowledges that the conventional costs of building a small station – about £5 million – would be prohibitive. But he believes using a technique where steel-framed buildings are constructed off-site would dramatically cut costs.

He said: “If the residents of Pool tell us they want it we’ll try to achieve it. I hope Arthington and Bramhope’s parish councils will do something similar and ask their residents.”

Arthington Parish Council chairman Coun Basil Thompson said: “We’d love to have a railway station here, it does need one and it would be very popular.

“It would make things much better but there are too many ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ and we really can’t see a feasible car parking solution. We’ve told Pool that unless they come up with one we can’t support it.

“It would be nice to get lots of people coming on foot or by bicycle, but the fact is people will go by car and need a car park.”

Coun Clive Fox (Con, Adel & Wharfedale), who is also a member of Arthington and Bramhope & Carlton Parish Councils, said: “Whilst the station re-opening sounds attractive, there are so many practical draw-backs the reality is it seems an unlikely prospect.

“Arthington was identified as one of about 30 possible candidates for a new station a few years ago. It came near the bottom of the list and the indications are that only the top half-dozen are ever likely to see the light of day.

“Typically, rail operators would want to see about 350 parking spaces for any new station. But the land surrounding Arthington station is in the green belt and privately owned, so it is difficult to see how this could be achieved.

“There is then the further complication of generated traffic, nearly all of which would come through Pool.”

Some 600 people signed a petition in support of a campaign to get the station re-opened nine years ago.

Plans for an estimated £8 million new railway station at Apperley Bridge, meanwhile, were approved by Bradford Council in March.

That scheme would see the station built to the south of Little Park and includes a 300-space car park, with an access road to the south and south west. But the project could yet stall as its funding is now being reviewed by the coalition Government as part of its wide-ranging public spending review.

Source[/textarea]

 

[White Heather]

I really cannot see this happening - ever. Arthington itself only has a small population, and most of those are car owners and many are retired. A new station would be reliant on people from Poole and even Otley, and like it or not, most of those would drive to the station, making the traffic situation worse, not better. There is far greater need for a new station at Horsforth Woodside where the land owners have reserved the land and made it freely available for a new station and park and ride, in return for planning consent for a new 'village' development in the old quarry. Even that, which would have huge benefits for Horsforth, is struggling to get funding and all they have to do is build it. I have actually suggested to the airport that if this does get built, in the longer term it will provide a better location to act as a station serving the airport. Whilst it is a mile further away, it will have a proper, large car park capable of handling the buses and easy access on to the Ring Road - far less problems than getting out of the current Horsforth Station car park.

 

[backtrack]

I cant see any sense in the Arthington station either. Arthington is not very big at all. We need a link from Leeds main train station if anything, whether that has to go via Horsforth then so beit. If a site has pretty much all been prepared then that should be the airports focus. Maybe a bus service would be more suitable for the village of Arthington and beyond to weatherby and Boston Spa area.

I was at Manchester Airport yesterday and when i was there their train station, between T1 and T2 along the walkway had three trains currently in, with people both steadily gettin on and off the trains. They have got it spot on with rail links.

I understand LBA has issies with terrain etc, but rail links must be a vital area of concern, in fact any links to the airport for that reason.

 

[Seasider]

I don't think that a bus link to Horsforth Station or a new station along the line will work.
Passengers didn't use the Station at Teeside even though it was on the airport (albeit 800m from the terminal). East Midlands Parkway is not a success either. If you are going to have a rail link it needs to be at the Airport (as Manchester, Southampton etc), and we know of the terrain and cost difficulties of doing that.

 

[White Heather]

My original suggestion to the airport recognised this problem and I suggested that the link be available to passengers but that they should book a station pick up via the airport web site, so if there were no pasengers booked on a train, the bus would not run. That way demand could be monitored and the bus service expanded later if demand was there. If not, well it would not run at a loss as the passengers being picked up would already have booked and paid. The airport have however, gone down the road of explpring a regular bus linking both Horsforth and Guiseley and have gone so far as to conduct trial runs to work out the time taken for each journey. They have also been negotiating with METRO, so this is something that has been taken seriously at least. We have to remember that it is a planning condition for the terminal expansion that more passengers are encouraged to use public transport, so LBA cannot really dismiss such ideas without at least investigating them thoroughly to see if they will work or not. This idea was only ever meant to be a stop gap pending any tram train link to LBA itself, but that will clearly take up to 10 years to achieve.

 

[Bigman]

I would say that the Luton Airport Parkway has been a success. Quick and well used bus shuttle. Quite surprised that EMA Parkway hasn't been a success,

As for Teesside, surely they need to have lots of flights available in the first place for passengers to want to use the rail service.

 

[White Heather]

Good point Bigman. Only a certain percentage of all airport passengers will use a rail service to get to the airport, and if you don't have that many flights in the first place, then translates into not a lot of passengers using the train.

 

[Seasider]

Going back 4 years when Teeside was approaching 1 million passengers a year, it still wasn't used. If you apply the percentage factor that you are suggesting, LBA at 2.5 million passengers a year, would not get a rail link.

 

[White Heather]

Any rail link for LBA (and there are definite proposals for a tram/train link, with the land for the station already earmarked and protected) is 10 years away (at leat). By that time, LBA passengers are projected to be more than double what they are now. Even so, the airport and METRO are clearly going to be making sure the numbers add up before they consider this. Bear in mind though that the proposal is for a through line linking Horsforth (on the Leeds/Harrogate/York line) with Guiseley (on the Leeds/Ilkley and Bradford/Ilkley line), providing a quick way of getting from Guiseley to Horsforth by rail, and Guiseley to Harrogate/York also without having to go all the way into Leeds and then back out again - so such a link will not be totally dependent upon traffic to the airport. There has also been talk of a park and ride located at the airport which would greatly enhance the viability of such a link.

 

[News Guru]

[textarea]Beware parking charges at airport.

A WORD of warning to your readers who might be going to Leeds Bradford Airport to collect visitors.

On Tuesday I decided to do a drive through the 'pick up only' area at Leeds Bradford Airport to see if my guest was waiting for me.

She was not, so I exited the car park. Drive through time less than one minute – to be honest less than 30 seconds

On going around the block, my friend phoned to say she was now in the 'pick up only' area, so I drove into the 'pick up only' car park to collect her... this took less than two minutes.

I put my ticket in the exit machine expecting the barrier to go straight up as I knew I had 10 minutes free time; to my amazement I was being charged £3.

I buzzed the intercom and was told somebody might be able to come and help me with my query.

Finally someone did turn up and told me the charge was correct as I had been through before (number plate recognition) and although the gentleman could not explain why if I had only been there in total for less than three minutes that I should be charged, he did agree he thought £1 a minute was excessive and unfair but there was nothing he could do about it.

Other than drive through the barrier I had no choice but to pay – so be aware – you are allowed 10 minutes free on one visit only.

Source[/textarea]

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Standard procedure at number of regional airports.

I have no doubt there are signs pointing out that a return within a specified time will incur a charge.

 

[Aviador]

There is but to be fair to the 'customer' the approach to the drop off and pick up area is a wash with signs, so it's very confusing if you're not used to it. The 'no return' is written in the small print on the sign and it's on a one way system so you can't turn around and go back later without incurring a charge.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think what's worse (not sure if it applies at LBA) is where drivers try to get out within the time limit but are prevented by either queuing traffic in front trying to exit the park or by drivers (who have overstayed) parking near the barrier using the ticket machine.

It happens at Bristol quite regularly and I noticed someone complaining to the local Exeter newspaper recently about similar incidents at Exeter Airport.

 

[White Heather]

It is unfair, but equally unfair is the practice of drivers just driving in to the pick up zone, back out when their friend/relative is not there, round the block, back in again, and so on until they eventually turn up. That is what had been happening and why they introduced this system. Drivers were driving round the block, adding to traffic, and leading to far too much 'moving' traffic in the pick up zone.

The example quoted above though is rediculous. Ideally there should be a 'holding' car park where people can park and wait until they know that the passenger they are picking up is there, in the pick up zone. Alternatively why not have information signs which show that a particular flight number has now been through baggage pick up so that drivers know that there is a good chance that their pick ups will either be in the pick up zone or will be shortly. The sign could be timed to show a flight say 5 or 10 minutes after the baggage carousels have started up. Drivers could then avoid going in and clogging the drop off zone/barriers up until their flight is shown as clearing baggage pick up.

The fact is of course, that the system in place does exactly what airports want it to do - makes money, and lots of it. So although what I have suggested must be possible, it won't be considered - although I might just be mischeivous and suggest it at the next Consultative Meeting!

 

[backtrack]

The example quoted above though is rediculous. Ideally there should be a 'holding' car park where people can park and wait until they know that the passenger they are picking up is there, in the pick up zone. Alternatively why not have information signs which show that a particular flight number has now been through baggage pick up so that drivers know that there is a good chance that their pick ups will either be in the pick up zone or will be shortly. The sign could be timed to show a flight say 5 or 10 minutes after the baggage carousels have started up. Drivers could then avoid going in and clogging the drop off zone/barriers up until their flight is shown as clearing baggage pick up.

I believe many American airports have these car parks. I know for sure that Orlando MCO does. It seemed to be very effective when i was there.

 

[Seasider]

Infuriating it may be, but I support the idea. The Local Yokel said that people were delayed exiting the car park at BRS and had to pay. This may have been caused by an excessive number going to pick some one up who wasn't there, hence creating a jam.
I'm afraid that this reflects the attitude of a great number of people who have no patience or foresight. It is far easier for the passenger to wait than the driver, so why not wait until you have collected your bags (if necessary) and use your mobile (there will be odd person who doesn't have one) to ring your "chauffer" who is waiting off airport. By the time you have walked to the pick-up area, no more than a couple of minutes to wait. The driver will be able to gain entry/exit within the 10 mins limit and no charge. Hey Presto! ...... or is that too difficult to understand.
I assure you that I have done this at LBA within the last two weeks and it worked a treat.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I too think the theory of these car parks is impeccable. As Heather points out the system is designed to stop those people who used to drive in and out of the park endlessly until their passenger(s) appeared and in so doing created further congestion.

Being a sad individual who likes to see things at first hand I've spent time in the rapid pick-up car park at Bristol watching events. When there is a rush of inbound aircraft the number of pick-up cars and taxis (only the accredited taxi company vehicles are allowed at the front of the terminal) can be phenomenal.

Even if everyone waited until their pick-up had contacted the car driver by mobile phone to say they were ready to be picked up, at these busy times it would be next to impossible for everyone to get in and out at Bristol inside ten minutes.

It only needs one to have to pay, especially if they pay by credit card, for the queue to build up in a flash.

The car park is unmanned so there is no-one to direct cars or answer queries.

This is a deliberate ploy by the airport because (a) it would cost money to pay the staff member and (b) the airport would lose revenue from those unfortunate enough to be stuck in the queue. At Bristol if you miss the ten-minutes free time slot you pay £4 for the next 15 minutes and more after that.

If the car park was manned I think most of the problems would be overcome.

 

[Aviador]

In case nobody knew, the LBA system is a carbon copy of the Bristol pick up and drop off area. Likewise as Type Rated has said I'm sure the American airports already have the automated signs on the terminal front giving meeters and greeters flight information. It's a great idea if they could get a similar FID system working here.